The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: seeker_two on April 14, 2009, 09:21:56 PM
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I'm getting an itch to buy a new plinkin' gun....and, with ammo prices, a good .22lr SA revolver sounds like just the scratch....
I was almost decided on getting a Ruger Bearcat....
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=912&return=Y (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=912&return=Y)
...when I saw the newest NAA offering, The Earl....
http://www.northamericanarms.com/EARL.html (http://www.northamericanarms.com/EARL.html)
...and now I'm stuck.....do I stick with proven Ruger reliability (and weight) or go with the nifty, lighweight new kid on the block?.....
Any advice?.....
Thanks in advance.... ;D
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No to the Earl just for safety (no trigger guard).
Unless you have real small hands I would also say no to the Bearcat.
Get a Ruger Single Six. They come in every 'flavor' you can think of, (stainless, blue, any barrel length, with 22 Mag Cylander, etc). It will become a treasured heirloom to pass on. It is also (IMO) the BEST gun to start a new shooter.
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Seeker
The bear cat is a fine gun. Not the most accurate ever made but hands down the prettiest. It reeks quailty, shoots well and lends a certain amount of class to you while you hold it. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, my mother gave me hers (which she never shot) when I went to grad school. A few months later (1993 or so) I traded it wth my gun store, even money, for a state trooper"s Colt Python. Its a solid lttle revolver. That said I HATE.22 revolvers. That supersonic crack is awful in a revolver. My strong advice is to get a semi. Colt, Ruger,, Browning (particulally the very fine Challenger II, available on this board with a free oriental bamboo steamer, and if she doesn't stop trying to dig up the sprinklers, possibly an 18 month old Elhew pointer as well ). I don't know what it is, but just as some people don't like .357s because of that high pitched crack, I am right there with them on .22 revolvers. Fine guns, yes, I just don't like shooting them nearly as much as a semi.
FQ13
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NO to the Semi.
Both of your 'look ats' were wheel guns. Plus the big factor of ease of use and durability. Every 'non gunner' even 'antis' that I take to the range automatically go to one of my Single Sixes. Simple to operate. SAFE (will only fire after you cock it) feels good in the hand, is 'familiar' to evrey one.
I could go on. IF you go and feel both the Bearcat (it is pretty) and the Single Six and you like the Bearcat better, I won't bitch. (but I will demand pictures either way ;) ) Still a Ruger, still a wheel gun, still a 'keeper'.
I like the switch out 22lr / 22mag on the Single Six and I don't know if that is an option on the Bearcat.
One more BIG point.
Semis (especially .22 cal) are picky about what ammo they will function with.
A wheel gun will shoot anything!
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I'm with Haz on this, Get the Single Six. I have3 and will buy more as I come across them. I prefer the older 3 screw models But the New Models are great too(and easier to find) Ruger did offer a convertible Bearcat but recalled them because of some problem. IF you can find one it will cost up to $1000 to purchase (Collectors want them)The Bearcat is a fine revolver but too small for my hands and could be harder to get good accuracy because of that.
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I only have 2 (one three screw) but like Maj says, I will get more. ;)
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I will back Haz up here. I REALLY prefer a a .22 pistol to a .22 revolver, but that's just a personal thing. If you want a wheelgun, you would be hard pressed to beat a Ruger single six. I don't know what bearcats are going for these days, but I'll take "What is not cheap", for a thousand Alex. They are beautiful little guns, with that whole civil war vibe, but, if you don't have small hands, you'll probably get better performance out of a single six, just because of grip size. I also had a Harrington and Richardson nine shot, break barrel ,double action .22 revolver. It was a good gun, and probably cheaper than the Ruger. As I said I am very happy with my Colt Woodsman and my Browning Challenger, but you won't go wrong with a single six. (Just don't put fake plastic ivory grips on it ;D)
FQ13
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{snip}Simple to operate. SAFE (will only fire after you cock it).
{more snip}
A wheel gun will shoot anything!
{I'll bravely step into the water here}
One might argue that without a safety or a de-cocker SAs are even less safe than other types of actions.
Yes, a single action wheel gun will shoot anything, however hitting your target is another matter. If you get a kick out of SA shooting by all means go for it, but you're replacing accuracy with nostalgia.
Alf
To me single action involves the letters T and C. And for a wheel gun, S and W.
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Alf, With the transfer bar safety a .22 revolver is VERY safe.
"hitting your target is another matter" What do you mean? My Single Sixes are deadly accurate. I'd put them up against any production semi.
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I'm with the Cat. My Single Six is "spot on" when it comes to shooting. Spend the few dollars extra for adjustable sights.
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I'm with the Cat. My Single Six is "spot on" when it comes to shooting. Spend the few dollars extra for adjustable sights.
Absolutely!
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{I'll bravely step into the water here}
One might argue that without a safety or a de-cocker SAs are even less safe than other types of actions.
Yes, a single action wheel gun will shoot anything, however hitting your target is another matter. If you get a kick out of SA shooting by all means go for it, but you're replacing accuracy with nostalgia.
Alf
To me single action involves the letters T and C. And for a wheel gun, S and W.
I don't know Alf ? Pull trigger, hammer drops, sounds like two (double) action to me ;D
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Give Heritage a look:
http://www.downrange.tv/reviews/showproduct.php/product/36/cat/21
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Give Heritage a look:
http://www.downrange.tv/reviews/showproduct.php/product/36/cat/21
A freind of mine has one he likes and it was about $200.
Personally I don't like the MIM hammer, but that's because I'm an unemployed machine operator.
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Ruger Single Six three screw - my first gun and still going strong today.. ;D
Find the revolver that fits you ;)
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No to the Earl just for safety (no trigger guard).
Unless you have real small hands I would also say no to the Bearcat.
Get a Ruger Single Six. They come in every 'flavor' you can think of, (stainless, blue, any barrel length, with 22 Mag Cylander, etc). It will become a treasured heirloom to pass on. It is also (IMO) the BEST gun to start a new shooter.
Umm... yeah I agree with Hazcat on this one. I'd go for the Ruger.
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I've got 3 Single Sixes, and a Single Six was the first handgun I ever shot...needless to say I have a soft spot in my heart for the little guns...
mb
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Give Heritage a look:
http://www.downrange.tv/reviews/showproduct.php/product/36/cat/21
A freind of mine has one he likes and it was about $200.
Personally I don't like the MIM hammer, but that's because I'm an unemployed machine operator.
Just inherited a Heritage 6.5" last week myself. My F-I-L passed away back at Thanksgiving, and after studying on it a spell, my M-I-L thought I might like to have it. She stayed with us a few days after having eye surgery and gave it to me when we picked her up.
Have not shot it yet, but I like the look and feel. It's definitely not Ruger quality but seems like a good gun for what was paid for it (around $200 with tax). Might have to do a range report in the near future.
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Thanks for the info, y'all. ;D
I've thought about the Single-Six, but I'd rather not have that much weight invested in a .22lr for plinkin' and woodsbummin'. And I'm not a big fan of adjustable sights....when I find a load I like, I break out the file & never have to worry about losing zero. And I've known a few guys who have taken a spare Bearcat cylinder and had it reamed out for .22Mag...never had any problems shooting it. It's on my to-do list, too....
I've owned a Heritage, and it was a great gun. Never got used to the "safety" that I never used. And I did handle a 4" birdshead-gripped one yesterday that was very tempting..... :P
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Well if a Single Six is too much $ maybe look at the Charter Arms Pathfinder (DA). Should be about $300.00
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I love my dad's single six Ruger. It can be a magnum or the regular cal. and it fits nice in my hands and in my dad's. Its a lot of fun at the range.
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You guys are NOT helping me here! Now ya got me drooling over a Single Six, the new Redhawk and I'm already waiting on my SP101.....
Haz, you got my blood boiling for my old pal Ruger....stop, cease and desist, no more.....
Can't.......help........myself........must........have............more, more, more, more........!!!
No.......more........money.......need some money.......!!!......work two jobs.........work three jobs.........sell something......!!!
slobber, slobber, slobber, slobber.....drool, drool, drool....... :'( :'(
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Ruger MKIII and 10/22 make for a perfect pair. I also recommend GSG 5 it hell a fun.
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+1 on the Mark III & 10/22!!! I've had my Mark III 2 years and out to 50 yards can take squirrel regularly and easily. Easily one of the funnest firearms I own. Dont be surprised if it takes a while to put it back together after you take it apart the first time or two... TRICKY! "Point it at the moon, put in the clip, pull the trigger, pop the lever in place, bark at the moon, and tap your heels together 3 times while saying the Lords prayer!" (IT'S NOT EASY!) Otherwise an EXCELLENT firearm!
I'd look at the S&W .22 for a revolver (they even hold 10 rounds!). NOT a Ruger revolver if your a wheel gun man and want a .22! Smith makes great .22 revolvers with as nice a match grade trigger as you'll feel on any gun in your whole life! The Ruger .22 revolvers, while pretty, & well assembled were aparently scaled to fit a 5 year olds hands. Poor triggers, and in the case of the single six, the chambers and barrels are NOT ideal for either .22 win mag., OR .22LR.. Few people know this, but the cases, & bullets are actually slightly bigger diameter for .22 win mag., and Ruger comprimised between them on all the single six's. None of the Ruger .22 revolvers are known for superior accuracy (still acceptable to some, you likely wont be impressed though). The Smith on the other hand IS known for astounding accuracy! As is the Mark III, but either one is limited to .22LR only. No shooting the .22 Win. mag stuff.
I have a 6 7/8" barrel on my Mark III Hunter and yes, its muzzle heavy, distractingly so if you plan on carrying it in the field at all. They now offer the Hunter model in a shorter barrel that I REALLY wish were availble when I made my purchase!
Browning Buckmarks are known for "nearly as good", or sometimes "as good" as accuracy to the Mark III. They are easier to reasemble after cleaning. Their looks are something from an old episode of "SHAFT" in my opinion though... Just my opinion! But distracting enough I hate even picking one up (Many even have a gold plated trigger ::))
Pick up and handle the Smith revolvers. You will buy one! Superior firearm your grandchildren, and their grandchildren will be proud to own. Quality second to none! But then, the Mark III has 10 round magazines you can change quickly! Fun shooter! And well made in its own right. VERY few squirrels and rabbits have lived to tell the tale of me missing! ;D
Decisions, decisions...
As far as rifles go... There is no substitue for the 10/22.
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Smith & Wesson 617
4" barrel, 10 shot... NICE! Wish I had one. The Ruger Mark III "Hunter" models sell for about $500 around here, a 617 will go for about 50 more than that. BOTH WORTH IT!!!
(http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/160584_large.jpg)
My Squirrel Season "Action Pack" ;D
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1000888.jpg?t=1239901722)
As it came out of the box (with a 3lb trigger) except Hogue thumb rest grip. No need to change anything else IMO.
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Badger,
There are SEPARATE cylinders for the 22lr and the 22 mag for the Single Six, you do NOT use same cylinder for both.
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A few of the compromises with the single six are the internal diameter of the barrel is larger than it will be in any .22lr to allow for the larger .22wmr rounds to be used. Even if you dont get the one that comes with the .22wmr cylinder (not all do) the same barrel will be used in case you buy this later and try to shoot it that way. The .22LR shells are much shorter than the magnum shells. The cylinders must be made the same over all length allowing them both to fit the same frame. This requires an extremely long "jump" for the bullet from the much shorter .22lr shell to make before it ever contacts threads in the barrel at all. In itself a serious problem when accuracy is concerned, everybody knows the benefits of a "match chamber". Ideally, (for accuracy) the bullet is touching the threads of the barrel, or even into the threads a few thousandths as the round is chambered. This longer gap that the bullet must "jump" in the case of the Single Six is big enough that Engineers saw problems with bullets rolling, or tumbleing minute angles before ever getting into the barrel. They solved this by having a very long tappered throat in the barrel of these revolvers, and again opening up barrel inside diameters, and cutting shallow theads to allow for bullets to travel through the gun in "a bit of a twist", and not jam, or blow up. With this longer throat thats now required, what you find is that some of the bullets that werent rotated at an angle before contact, will be caused to roll over & deform upon contact with the throat... Still not having ever even got to the threads yet.
I think Single Six's are a brilliant concept (being able to shoot both calibers from one gun). To many comprimises for me. Just my personal taste though. ;)
They ARE pretty!
(http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/304L.jpg)
The Single Six is easily small enough for youngsters hands. :-\ The Smith, and Mark III are full size frames.
Keep in mind that at least in this state its illegal to hunt with a handgun unless your over 18. So check out your local laws before you get one for your kid!
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S&W revolvers in .22lr are rediculously expensive. For a backyard plinker, 800 bucks is just way too much.
I had a High Standard match gun years ago for bullseye competition and had maybe 400 bucks in it. It would shoot one ragged hole at 25 yards, all day, every day...might try and find another.
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"Street price" for a 617 around here is around $550. There are MUCH cheaper options though. You could even look for a Ruger Mark II. I see a lot of them in used gun cases, and their GREAT buys! Personally I think its a better firearm than the Mark III with all its politically correctness added features.
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Seems pretty low for a revolver that's MSRP is $916.00...
My FFL would probably go 750, not much less....not worth it for a plinker....
I can get a Mark III 22/45 for 275...300 tops or just borrow that POS Walther that my kid uses if it can stay together for more than ten rounds... :P It holds "minute of trash can lid" at 20 feet.....(borrowed that line.. ;D)
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I have and use a 3 screw Ruger Single-Six with 9" barrel that I got in the mid-60's. It will shoot with the best of the new ones. I also have a Ruger MarkII Govt. Awesome shooter. Hi-Standard used to make some good 9 rd SA revolvers, you can still find some at gun shows. If not a Single Six, recommend a S&W (yes I know, more expensive, but you get what you pay for) or possible if can find a Colt 22lr revolver.
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I have and use a 3 screw Ruger Single-Six with 9" barrel that I got in the mid-60's. It will shoot with the best of the new ones. I also have a Ruger MarkII Govt. Awesome shooter. Hi-Standard used to make some good 9 rd SA revolvers, you can still find some at gun shows. If not a Single Six, recommend a S&W (yes I know, more expensive, but you get what you pay for) or possible if can find a Colt 22lr revolver.
My Grandfather had a Hi-Standard SA 9-shot. He bought it new in 1965. Don't know what he paid for it. My mom and dad had just gotten married and then dad went into the Air force. After dad finished AF Basic training, he was stationed at the AF Base near Tonopah, Nevada (866th Radar Sqd, also where I was born). My grandparents took my mom out to join dad after he got settled in and the Hi-Standard was taken along under the seat 'just in case'.
The gun is in pristine condition, with no wear or scratches. I doubt my granddad fired more than a brick through it in its entire life. There's not even a wear ring around the cylinder. It stayed in a holster in their hall closet except for when it was stolen when their house was broken into back in the early 80's. Thankfully, it was recovered swiftly by the SO.
Before he passed away, he gave me his gold watch, and after he passed away the Hi-Standard went to my younger brother.
That was eleven years ago and I don't think my brother has ever shot it either (not really a gun person). I handled and cleaned it last year so I know it's still in perfect condition. I have shot other Hi-Standards and they are well made little guns.
Anyway, I know it was only minutely tangent to the original thread, but when DesertMarine mentioned the Hi-Standard, it set my mind to remembering my Granddad. So thanks for letting me drift and ramble a bit.
And now, back to the thread........... 8)
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Not exactly what your looking for, but have you thought about a smith model 41? I know they are on the pricy side, but it will take you from field use to mid level bullseye comp in its stock form.
I have 2 ( well I had two, my finace says one is hers) both will shoot 10 shoot groups at 25 yards smaller then a quater.( this is with open sites and using a bag)
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No to the Earl just for safety (no trigger guard).
Unless you have real small hands I would also say no to the Bearcat.
Get a Ruger Single Six. They come in every 'flavor' you can think of, (stainless, blue, any barrel length, with 22 Mag Cylander, etc). It will become a treasured heirloom to pass on. It is also (IMO) the BEST gun to start a new shooter.
I agree 100% with Haz. I love my single six. I have had it for 11 or 12 years now and I have lost count of how many bricks of .22 I have run through it and it still functions beautifully.
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I wouldn't get the Earl just because of the fake loading lever. I'm not worried about it not having a trigger guard. You just don't cock the gun until you're ready to shoot it, like any other SA revolver.