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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Fatman on April 17, 2009, 07:37:38 PM

Title: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Fatman on April 17, 2009, 07:37:38 PM
Not really, but glad the lady's alive.  :) 

Quote
Miss. woman gets shot in head, but makes tea
By JAY REEVES, Associated Press Writer Jay Reeves, Associated Press Writer 53 mins ago

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. – A Mississippi woman who was shot in the head not only survived but made herself tea and offered an astonished deputy something to drink, authorities said Friday. Tammy Sexton, 47, remained hospitalized three days after being wounded by her husband, who killed himself after he shot his wife. A bullet struck her squarely in the forehead, passed through her skull and exited through the back of her head, authorities said. She is expected to fully recover.

"There's no way she should be alive other than a miracle from God," said Sheriff Mike Byrd of Jackson County, Miss.

Byrd said deputies were looking for Sexton's husband, Donald Ray Sexton, earlier in the week to give him a document ordering him to stay away from his wife. Court records show he was put on probation for six months on April 9 for domestic violence.

He showed up at their home in rural Jackson County in Southeast Mississippi about 12:10 a.m. Tuesday and confronted his wife as a relative ran next door to call police, the sheriff said.

"She was at her bed, and he shot her right in the head," Byrd said. "Then he went out on the back porch and shot himself."

A deputy was greeted by the woman when he arrived minutes after she was shot with the slug from a .380-caliber handgun.

"When the officer got there she said, `What's going on?' She was holding a rag on her head and talking. She was conscious, but she was confused about what had happened," he said. "She had made herself some tea and offered the officer something to drink."

Byrd said the bullet apparently passed through the lobes of the woman's brain without causing major damage. She was rushed to a Mobile hospital by a helicopter.

While such cases may be rare, a neurosurgeon who wasn't involved in Sexton's case said such an outcome is possible. Medical journals also confirm people have been shot in the head with little or no lasting injury.

"There is a space in the brain where a missile could pass without doing any major damage. Is it possible? Yes. It would be rare," said Dr. Patrick Pritchard, an assistant professor of surgery at the University of Alabama-Birmingham.

The sheriff called the case bizarre.

"You just don't hear of something like this. Somebody gets shot in the head and they're dead," Byrd said.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Green Mountain Gringo on April 17, 2009, 07:42:12 PM
I love a happy ending.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Big Frank on April 17, 2009, 07:50:51 PM
It's a good thing it didn't hit any vital organs.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: twyacht on April 17, 2009, 08:10:49 PM


"There's no way she should be alive other than a miracle from God," said Sheriff Mike Byrd of Jackson County, Miss.

I think this qualifies.

Medically, we have seen the news reports of nails, arrows, and other objects enter the skull and penetrate brain tissue, with little or no "lethal" result.

Check out these x-ray photos.

http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2008/05/unusual_penetrating_brain_injuries.php

This women was very lucky, and it seems the husband wasn't.

Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: fightingquaker13 on April 17, 2009, 08:14:30 PM
At least it killed the bad guy, right?
FQ13 who shakes head.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: 1776 Rebel on April 17, 2009, 08:23:09 PM
The current 380 craze is just more of marketing from the manufacturers. If you want to trust your life to a round that has been thought of for the last 70 years as marginal then go ahead. But IMHO to be carrying something so underpowered is just plain crazy.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Timothy on April 17, 2009, 08:23:29 PM
The .45 ACP!  "When you care enough to bring the very, very best!"

She's darn lucky to making tea and nice enough to offer a beverage to her LEO...
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Timothy on April 17, 2009, 08:34:01 PM
Question:

If the velocity of a .380 from a 4" barrel is 940 fps and ME is 190ft/lb, what affect does the shortened 2-3/4" barrel from an LCP have on these numbers?  Seems pitiful to start with and can only get worse...

Not trivia, someone please answer...
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: THE CORONER on April 17, 2009, 08:51:58 PM
Good to hear the lady is going to be okay. 

On the comment of the .380 being underpowered....This lady's life was obviously spared by God.  Otherwise, she would have lost her life to the same size bullet as the shooter.  Right?  How many shots did it take for him to kill himself?  One.
The LCP is a "close quarter combat" pistol by design anyways.  Underpowered?  I think not!  I will have emptied my six shot magazine, before the bad guy hits the ground.  If at that point, he/she is not seconds from death, then I guess I'll retreat to reload?  Either way, the attacker is not going to be in any shape at this point, to put up much more of a fight.  IMO.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: twyacht on April 17, 2009, 09:18:23 PM

The LCP is a "close quarter combat" pistol by design anyways.  Underpowered?  I think not!  I will have emptied my six shot magazine, before the bad guy hits the ground. If at that point, he/she is not seconds from death, then I guess I'll retreat to reload?  Either way, the attacker is not going to be in any shape at this point, to put up much more of a fight.  IMO.

+1 Coroner.

My Kel-Tec P3AT (like the LCP),  was NEVER designed for IDPA matches,  it's the up close "little" pistol to defend one's self. .380 bullet technology has improved drastically.

Accurate hits with a Cor-Bon, or Speer or another name brand round will change the entire critical dynamic, (thanks Rob P.).

Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: ericire12 on April 17, 2009, 09:40:57 PM
It's a good thing it didn't hit any vital organs.

Now thats funny right there!
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Rob10ring on April 17, 2009, 09:56:52 PM
Obviously, whatever .380 round was being used didn't have much of a temporary wound cavity. However, I'm surprised the bullet made it all the way through.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: THE CORONER on April 17, 2009, 09:58:08 PM
Now thats funny right there!
I'll second that one! :D
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Michael Bane on April 17, 2009, 10:26:19 PM
Remember what we've talked about on the podcasts — any subcaliber gun means multiple shots, including a sort of automatic failure drill. Plus, suck it up and get the trick bullets...I've got Corbon DPX in mine...

mb
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: ericire12 on April 17, 2009, 10:36:39 PM
..... now where is that thread about the guy getting shot in the head with a 9mm ???
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: tombogan03884 on April 17, 2009, 10:56:02 PM
I don't see where the problem is, it went THROUGH her head, isn't that sufficient penetration ?
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: fightingquaker13 on April 17, 2009, 10:56:52 PM
..... now where is that thread about the guy getting shot in the head with a 9mm ???

You just couldn't resist, could you? And here I thought I, from time to time, thought, "Gee, what will happen if I push this buton on DRTV".
FQ13 ROFL
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Rob Pincus on April 17, 2009, 11:13:23 PM
Quote
"There's no way she should be alive other than a miracle from God," said Sheriff Mike Byrd of Jackson County, Miss.

I think this qualifies.

Medically, we have seen the news reports of nails, arrows, and other objects enter the skull and penetrate brain tissue, with little or no "lethal" result.

Check out these x-ray photos.

http://scienceblogs.com/neurophilosophy/2008/05/unusual_penetrating_brain_injuries.php

This women was very lucky, and it seems the husband wasn't.

Reminds me of Father Guido Sarducci complaining about the Catholic Church letting non-italians become saints with 2 of their 3 required miracles only being card tricks.

Seems to me that the empirical evidence suggests it was certainly not miraculous.  Headshots with pistols aren't magic. This is one of many examples of why we don't recommend them except for very specific extreme circumstances and even then only to limited areas from specific angles. The head is pretty damn well armored and not all of the brain is "vital". Pistol bullets are generally moving way to slow to disrupt tissue that they don't actually contact.

Multiple shots to the high center chest delivered as quickly as possible.

Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: THE CORONER on April 17, 2009, 11:26:02 PM
Obviously, whatever .380 round was being used didn't have much of a temporary wound cavity. However, I'm surprised the bullet made it all the way through.
If you have doubts as to the results of the .380 bullet's ballistic results, get a couple boxes and put it to the test.  I'm pretty sure that a round nose, full metal jacket  will go through the human body if it isn't deflected by a bone into another bone.  Jacketed hollow points are designed to expand, do more damage, and not to pass through completely.  But, that doesn't mean they won't.

I shot a buck back in 01' with a 12 ga. semi autoloader.  I hit him on the left side behind the shoulder blade, and the slug was stuck in the right one.  That's a 3"magnum, 1oz. slug at about 50 yards.  Given the choice of firearms to defend myself.  I would choose the slug gun even though the slug didn't go all the way through.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: HAWKFISH on April 18, 2009, 12:13:43 AM
I don't see where the problem is, it went THROUGH her head, isn't that sufficient penetration ?


Yep.. that's what I thought right off too. I think the penetration was good enough.  ::) I am also glad the woman is okay.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: blackwolfe on April 18, 2009, 01:44:28 AM
It's been quite a few years ago I read about a guy getting shot straight in the forehead with a .38.  Never penetrated and other than complaining of a headache was OK.
Then there was the guy in the Dallas area that aimed dead center between the eyes of the intruder at the foot of his bed. Well there wasn't an intrudrer at the end of his bed. The "eyes" was the moonlght coming through the window reflecting off his toe nails.  I'll let you guess what that bullet penetrated.  His comment was that it was only a .22, it's not like it was a .45 or something.  I clipped that article out of the Dallas newspaper and hung on to it for many years, but don't think I have it anymore.   
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: fightingquaker13 on April 18, 2009, 01:50:47 AM
It's been quite a few years ago I read about a guy getting shot straight in the forehead with a .38.  Never penetrated and other than complaining of a headache was OK.
Then there was the guy in the Dallas area that aimed dead center between the eyes of the intruder at the foot of his bed. Well there wasn't an intrudrer at the end of his bed. The "eyes" was the moonlght coming through the window reflecting off his toe nails.  I'll let you guess what that bullet penetrated.  His comment was that it was only a .22, it's not like it was a .45 or something.  I clipped that article out of the Dallas newspaper and hung on to it for many years, but don't think I have it anymore.   

I'd hate to be that guy's dog!
FQ13
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Rob10ring on April 18, 2009, 03:58:40 AM
If you have doubts as to the results of the .380 bullet's ballistic results, get a couple boxes and put it to the test.  I'm pretty sure that a round nose, full metal jacket  will go through the human body if it isn't deflected by a bone into another bone.  Jacketed hollow points are designed to expand, do more damage, and not to pass through completely.  But, that doesn't mean they won't.

I shot a buck back in 01' with a 12 ga. semi autoloader.  I hit him on the left side behind the shoulder blade, and the slug was stuck in the right one.  That's a 3"magnum, 1oz. slug at about 50 yards.  Given the choice of firearms to defend myself.  I would choose the slug gun even though the slug didn't go all the way through.
I just got back from setting up tomorrow morning's match at the range. The Range Master set up his 2 stages to require transitions to and from shotguns with slugs. The Range Safety Officers that won't be shooting in the morning shot tonight. This is indoor and pretty impressive, especially from the guys with Benellis speeding through the 5 targets. It brought to my mind the sound-bite of Duke Nuke'em grunting, "Come get some!". Shooting a .380 doesn't make me wanna say come get some.

I'll take the slug gun too. I've got a Benelli, but a pump is more fun. I'm liking that Mossberg Tactical Turkey.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Conagher 45 on April 18, 2009, 06:48:33 AM
Deputy, may I make you some tea before the ambulance arrives? Something to be said for southern hospitality and good manners. 8)
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: CJS3 on April 18, 2009, 08:12:54 AM
Deputy, may I make you some tea before the ambulance arrives? Something to be said for southern hospitality and good manners. 8)

I'm reminded of my Aunts. A crises was no reason to ignore good manners.
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: PegLeg45 on April 18, 2009, 12:54:53 PM
I'm reminded of my Aunts. A crises was no reason to ignore good manners.

Reminds me of my wife's people (and a few of mine too).
But only because they are too danged stubborn and hard-headed for a bullet to the head to be anything other than a minor hindrance.

 ;D
Title: Re: I'm having second thoughts about my LCP after reading this...
Post by: Big Frank on April 18, 2009, 05:27:39 PM
He must have shot her dead center in the forehead for the bullet to go between the hemisheres of her brain. I think it was more deliberate aiming than miracle, but believe luck was the biggest factor. My best guess is that it was a FMJ that was able to penetrate the entire skull.