The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: 1776 Rebel on April 18, 2009, 12:14:48 PM
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Israel understands quite well the risk of Iran developing a nuke. They also have the spine to do something about it. Finally with Bebe as the PM they have the guy willing to issue the order and not crap his pants.
The question I have is, what will the young boy we have as leader do? I suspect that Bebe understands the boy king is way over his head. That when confronted with a real crisis he will freeze and flounder. They will take advantage of that and their strike againist Iran will be over before the boy king has made up his mind.
I wouldn't be surprised to see not only airstrikes but Israeli boots on the ground. There were some reports that when they bombed the Syrian reactor last year they put spec ops on the ground first and captured Koreans and other internationals and are holding and interrogating them.
Hey something else to put on the list of worries for the remainder of the year.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6115903.ece
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Israel understands quite well the risk of Iran developing a nuke. They also have the spine to do something about it. Finally with Bebe as the PM they have the guy willing to issue the order and not crap his pants.
The question I have is, what will the young boy we have as leader do? I suspect that Bebe understands the boy king is way over his head. That when confronted with a real crisis he will freeze and flounder. They will take advantage of that and their strike againist Iran will be over before the boy king has made up his mind.
I wouldn't be surprised to see not only airstrikes but Israeli boots on the ground. There were some reports that when they bombed the Syrian reactor last year they put spec ops on the ground first and captured Koreans and other internationals and are holding and interrogating them.
Hey something else to put on the list of worries for the remainder of the year.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6115903.ece
1) Sh!t himself
2) Either before or after if they do a manned mission, However that's a lot of hostile territory to cover, when they hit Entebbe they made most of the flight over international waters and into primitively monitored air space, to hit Iran they have to cross either Syria or Jordan (I'd bet on Jordan) and then Iraq, while they would most likely not be fired on over Iraq they would definitely be spotted by AWACS or other radar and the resulting radio chatter could easily compromise the mission before it ever got to Iranian airspace.
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1) Sh!t himself
2) Either before or after if they do a manned mission, However that's a lot of hostile territory to cover, when they hit Entebbe they made most of the flight over international waters and into primitively monitored air space, to hit Iran they have to cross either Syria or Jordan (I'd bet on Jordan) and then Iraq, while they would most likely not be fired on over Iraq they would definitely be spotted by AWACS or other radar and the resulting radio chatter could easily compromise the mission before it ever got to Iranian airspace.
I agree about the chatter, but I still think the attack will catch Iran off guard. Instead of gathering in the streets to burn the stars and stripes; they'll be screaming in the streets, and falling on their asses, because they all have shit running down their legs! Allah that, sand punks!
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The United Nations, post attack, will "be really, really, mad" than they will write a letter to BeBe telling the Israeli's the UN is really mad.
Than the World will take the Iranian casualties and show staged women and children that were killed, (just like when Israel kicked some Hamas butt last year.)
The Iranians will stage to the world media, and they (the media) will fall for it. NPR will call the attacks unprovoked and CNN, BBC, pick one, will blame Israel, forgetting what the Pres. of Iran said about wiping Israel off the map...
Meanwhile, BHO will get on the batphone to Bebe, and request no more attacks. Take the UN line, and say "There needs to be a diplomatic solution". He may even put the Hilldabeast on duty.
We already are pledging ninety something million dollars of American $$$ for Palestine, hoping the UN can supervise that none fall into Hamas's hands.....(Yeah right)....
Than Iran will call on Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and other muslim countries to wage "another" jihad against Israel.
It may get real bad, real quick and Israel has the testicular fortitude to not back down and start kicking more ass.
Israel took a chapter from Grant's attitude toward war:
The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving.
Ulysses S. Grant (1822 - 1885)
We'll see.....The Israeli's have done this type of thing before....
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Israel understands quite well the risk of Iran developing a nuke. They also have the spine to do something about it. Finally with Bebe as the PM they have the guy willing to issue the order and not crap his pants.
The question I have is, what will the young boy we have as leader do? I suspect that Bebe understands the boy king is way over his head. That when confronted with a real crisis he will freeze and flounder. They will take advantage of that and their strike againist Iran will be over before the boy king has made up his mind.
I wouldn't be surprised to see not only airstrikes but Israeli boots on the ground. There were some reports that when they bombed the Syrian reactor last year they put spec ops on the ground first and captured Koreans and other internationals and are holding and interrogating them.
Hey something else to put on the list of worries for the remainder of the year.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6115903.ece
The logistics of getting there will be a problem. Just from the time element of it.
Not to worry, all part of the plan. These things must necessarily come to pass........
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The logistics of getting there will be a problem. Just from the time element of it.
Not to worry, all part of the plan. These things must necessarily come to pass........
Actually the logistics , other than route will not be that big a problem . Israel did pretty much the same thing into Iraq when they bombed the Osirak facility. The only question will be where they meet up with the inflight refuelers.
TW, I'm going to comment on your post in peices,
"The United Nations, post attack, will "be really, really, mad" than they will write a letter to BeBe telling the Israeli's the UN is really mad.
Than the World will take the Iranian casualties and show staged women and children that were killed, (just like when Israel kicked some Hamas butt last year.)
The Iranians will stage to the world media, and they (the media) will fall for it. NPR will call the attacks unprovoked and CNN, BBC, pick one, will blame Israel, forgetting what the Pres. of Iran said about wiping Israel off the map...
Meanwhile, BHO will get on the batphone to Bebe, and request no more attacks. Take the UN line, and say "There needs to be a diplomatic solution". He may even put the Hilldabeast on duty.
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But all the complaining, whining, and bitching will not put Humpty nuke plant together again.
"Than Iran will call on Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and other muslim countries to wage "another" jihad against Israel."
Israel beat the entire Arab world in 6 days using WW II era equipment and then modern aircraft, Today, Egypt Jordan and Iraq are out of the fight, that leaves only Syria (who still pretty much control Lebanon through influence)and Iran which controls Hezbollah because that was the only way for them to have a presence in the area. Jordan not only will not participate, they will not allow PLO , Iranian, or Syrian troops to stage through their terretory, they hate those regimes more than they have ever hated the Jews. On top of that none of the arab countries have nukes, Israel does and will absolutely use them if it looked like they were going to lose a conventional war against invaders.
"It may get real bad, real quick and Israel has the testicular fortitude to not back down and start kicking more ass."
Some body has to show that the GOOD GUYs can have balls too. those a$$holes in Washington will try to talk the missles out of the sky.
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Two things rarely mentioned about Israels arsenal...They have submarines and they have ICBMs (remember they have launched spy satellites into orbit). I wouldn't put cruise missles launched from sub platforms out of the equation nor a strategic missle strike. I am not even going to mention (but I will :) ) the possibility of an EMP strike with a tactical nuke. The Israeli's are a very creative lot and I put nothing past them when it comes to their very survival.
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Is Israel about to strike Iran ?
Yes.
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Two things rarely mentioned about Israels arsenal...They have submarines and they have ICBMs (remember they have launched spy satellites into orbit). I wouldn't put cruise missles launched from sub platforms out of the equation nor a strategic missle strike. I am not even going to mention (but I will :) ) the possibility of an EMP strike with a tactical nuke. The Israeli's are a very creative lot and I put nothing past them when it comes to their very survival.
EMP...hadn't crossed my mind. That would put a fair amount of mid-east oil out-of-commission. I wish I had money to play in the commodities market.
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In regards to Israel's arsenal, they have all we have, and stuff the Krav Maga makes, and weaponry we wish we had.
Remember the original Desert Eagle .50?
The Israeli's (politics make strange bedfellows), have been a pit bull, held back to a point with American Middle Eastern Politics.
They drop leaflets, have an outstanding intelligence dept, and limit civilian casualties right up to the point when the Hamas types shoot at Israeli troops from old folk homes, and heavily populated apts. that are not allowed to evacuate the women and children.
Than when they are struck, they cart out the dead and wounded women and children, and play the world media which of course falls for it.
They have NUKES, thanks to the US, and BHO better get some real advice, from someone other than Hillary about dealing with a nuclear Iran.
Israel is the pit-bull over there, and when repeatedly threatened and rocketed, etc,.. etc,..
They will unleash with American Fighter Aircraft, and awesome pilots.
America made sure Israel would have Air Superiority in the region, and they do, and are NOT afraid to get some bunker busters to Iran's nuke tech.
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Yes.
Is this the beginning of the end? Is it? Is this what Revelations is telling us? Armagedeon, Apocalypse, Tribulation, etc...
I'm not an avid bible reader, but I've missed a few naps in church. I listened, in other words.
I've heard the stories of Revelations since I've been a child. Some 30 years ago, and several since then. And I still have alot to learn about the end of times.
I fear our leader(s) don't have what it takes for me to enjoy grandchildren someday. The man who doesn't see the direction our world, not to mention our nation is traveling; is a man whose life on this planet hasn't been realized. I've realized that I don't want my children, and their children, and their children's children, ect... to live like rats across a desert, like the desert rats trying to build a doomsday device to kill us all!
It scares the hell out of me! I'm a believer, I'm just not a very religious man. I get caught up in my own little world, and I don't think about the important people in my life as often as I should. And as the years pass by, I get wiser to the ways of the world, but the world gets wiser as well. I'm not trying to get caught up in all the middle east media propaganda. But I can't help the religious aspects of these situations. It's always been Iran in mind. I remember the Carter years. I was just going into Jr. High School for Godsake! But I remember that they hated us then, as they do now.
Just some thoughts on my mind as I read through your posts replies. Sorry if I offend anyone with my rambling.
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Coroner, not offended at all. This is a place to kick some ideas around and yours are as valid as anyones. My personal thoughts revolve around the fact that it really matters what people over there believe. Like in believe with a capital B. There is a group of folks in Iran including Ahamadingdong that really BELIEVE in what is called the 12th Imam. This is a scary apocalyptic view of the world and end times for Muslims. I have heard commentators talk about how this group wants total chaos in the region because that will bring the Muslim messiah to earth. Woopie !!! So he is very happy to see a freaking total war between Israel and Iran. It will be glorious in his eyes.
Without understanding what those folks beliefs are puts us at a disadvantage. No different than western society and its general surprise at the whole suicide bomber thing. We may laugh at the 72 virgin stuff but other folks BELIEVE in it. You have to take that into consideration.
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I must plead ignorance as to the beliefs of the Muslim faith. However, based on my religion, as well as secular history, you do not mess with God's chosen people. If the Iranians don't back down there be a poo storm headin' their way.
Swoop
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If Israel thinks it's existence is threatened they will not stop at anything. They will not hesitate to use their Nukes, chemicals or bugs. Millions will die. In the backlash Israel will probably be destroyed, but they will take the entire middle east down with them.
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Okay, not to poop the party here, but Israel's sabre rattling, isn't directed towards Tehran, its directed towards DC. The aptly named Netanayahu, is a hardliner who truly thinks that he can have the land of west bank as part of Israel (which is fine by me) without giving the people who have lived here for generations the same rights as Israelis (not even even close to fine). He wants to demonstrate to Obama that Isarael will attack Iran, in order to force us to apply pressure to Tehran. Fair enough, but lets do understand that this is isn't Biblical prophesy, its real politique. Just straight up balance of power games played by two lesser powers (Iran and Israel) trying to maximize their leverage over the dominant power (us) in establishing a new status quo. Nothng satanic or divine (under Jewish, Christian or Muslim definitions thereof) just the same thingt thats been going on since the 1100's when control of Jerusalem started to matter. Whats at play here is a rivalry between Saudi Arabia and Iran for who speaks for the muslim world and who controls the gulf. Just as Netanyahu is threatening to drag us into a war if we don't threaten Iran, so too are the Iranians trying to make Shiaism, not Sunni Wahabism the voice for Jihad. There are wheels within wheels here and if we just blindly say "good guy" "bad guy" we're going to get taken for a ride because there are not two sides. There are about 15 (and no that's not an arbitrary number and I can list them but it would take too much space unles you want me to post a scorecard wich I will cheerfully do). None of them likes us (Israel included) we need to undestand one fundamental principle. To quote that well known commie Henry Kissenger "The purpose of American foreign policy is to advance the interests of the United States of America". Period. Full stop. This is a time to put away the Bibles and get out a copy of Machiavellie's "The Prince" because thats what we're dealing with.
fightingquaker13
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If Israel thinks it's existence is threatened they will not stop at anything. They will not hesitate to use their Nukes, chemicals or bugs. Millions will die. In the backlash Israel will probably be destroyed, but they will take the entire middle east world down with them.
And then our Lord will ask, "Where am I suppose to put the New Jerusalem now?"
Quaker,
I still believe we cannot put down our bibles.... there is alot of political scripture within. Especially in Revelations. It's difficult to understand because of the way it's told; but one does get the idea that there are enemies and allies mentioned alike.
I wish we never would have gotten involved in all the BS over there. I know the religious consequences are huge, but the reality is as disturbing as is the reasoning. One can argue that this is A-typical political maneuvers; but the religious attributes cannot be overlooked, nor set aside. Neither side will allow it. Not for 2000 years anyways. It's the timeless battle of good vs. evil. Ideology is the plague of man, when religion dictates policy, because every religion has their own idea of what they believe to be "righteous."
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Most if not all the problems in the Middle East are religious based.. Until "religion" is taken out,there will NEVER be peace. Their religious belief's that have been in place for hundreds of years are intrenched in them. It will be never ending, I believe.
Here we can live "for the most part" peaceful with ALL kinds of religious beliefs. Thank God!!
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And then our Lord will ask, "Where am I suppose to put the New Jerusalem now?"
Quaker,
I still believe we cannot put down our bibles.... there is alot of political scripture within. Especially in Revelations. It's difficult to understand because of the way it's told; but one does get the idea that there are enemies and allies mentioned alike.
I wish we never would have gotten involved in all the BS over there. I know the religious consequences are huge, but the reality is as disturbing as is the reasoning. One can argue that this is A-typical political maneuvers; but the religious attributes cannot be overlooked, nor set aside. Neither side will allow it. Not for 2000 years anyways. It's the timeless battle of good vs. evil. Ideology is the plague of man, when religion dictates policy, because every religion has their own idea of what they believe to be "righteous."
You sum it up fairley when you say ideology is the plague of man, because which side is good and which is evil when there are at least a half a dozen sides all playing their owm game in this mess, us included? This is just one those cases where politics is complicated period. If this were in say South America folks would have no problem with that, but because its in Israel and some Christians are looking (incorrectly I believe, but then I'm a preterist) for the end times it becomes a morality play. The question is how do you have a morality play with the the US, the EU, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States, Egypt, the Palestinians, Israel, the islamacists, and Iran all playing their own games, and no one's idea of what constitues an acceptable outcome is the same? Its not a morality play, its a damn mess, the classic charley foxtrot. The day we can attain energy indepependence and wash our hands of the whole region can't come too soon.
FQ13 who would love to say screw them all, and send us a postcard to let us know how it works out over there
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FQ, I think you miss the point here. It is about motivations and belief systems. The classic debate between KGB and CIA/Western spy recruitment was that of multiple motivations vs. some grand driver (the KGB believing in multiple motivations). If Ahmadingdong believes that the 12th Imam will come thru war, then that is a driver you can't ignore. You may not believe that but he does. To say Israel (in some broad brush) is just looking to twist up DC without understanding who has political power in the state and what drives them (for instance the radical religous on the west bank) again misses it. A good read (if you can call it that) are any of the books by Jerrold Post on the psychology of leaders.
The Psychological Assessment of Political Leaders: With Profiles of Saddam Hussein and Bill Clinton (Paperback)
Know Thy Enemy: Profiles Of Adversary Leaders And Their Strategic Cultures (Paperback)
The Mind of the Terrorist by Jerrold M. Post (Hardcover - 8 Feb 2008)
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FQ, I think you miss the point here. It is about motivations and belief systems. The classic debate between KGB and CIA/Western spy recruitment was that of multiple motivations vs. some grand driver (the KGB believing in multiple motivations). If Ahmadingdong believes that the 12th Imam will come thru war, then that is a driver you can't ignore. You may not believe that but he does. To say Israel (in some broad brush) is just looking to twist up DC without understanding who has political power in the state and what drives them (for instance the radical religous on the west bank) again misses it. A good read (if you can call it that) are any of the books by Jerrold Post on the psychology of leaders.
I think we're in ageement here. Netanyahu is beholden to the Israeli right, and Abadenijad has definately drunk the Kool-Aid. (The question is whether the Guardian Council who is really in control in Iran have drunk it as well). All I wassaying is that Netanyahu is trying to put pressure on Obama to force him to confront Iran rather than taking a slower diplomatic approach.
FQ13
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Garbled words are what led to the invasions of both Korea, and Kuwait.
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Garbled words are what led to the invasions of both Korea, and Kuwait.
And more than one donnybrook on this board. ;D
FQ13
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;D In both cases US Diplomats made speeches that sounded like we were writing off the targeted country.
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I think we're in ageement here. Netanyahu is beholden to the Israeli right, and Abadenijad has definately drunk the Kool-Aid. (The question is whether the Guardian Council who is really in control in Iran have drunk it as well). All I wassaying is that Netanyahu is trying to put pressure on Obama to force him to confront Iran rather than taking a slower diplomatic approach.
FQ13
How much slower? This middle east conflict has escalated from camels and swords, to tanks and nuclear weapons capabilities. The people on both sides of this conflict are drunk on kool-aid. Israel is as responsible for their role in this conflict, as much as the Muslims are. Both sides have killed civilians without conscience.
This is, as it has always been; a fight over the rights to property. The property in question, has had religious justifications from both sides, as it's point of origin. It would be a civil matter in a court of law here. We as free men in a free nation; we cannot expect civility, nor diplomacy to play a role in any conflict pertaining to the conflict in the middle east. Our loyalty to Israel, is also based on the belief of Christianity. Which tells that the Israelis, are our God's chosen people. With the belief that in "the second coming" Jesus Christ himself will lead them to the New Kingdom of Jerusalem.
The underlying reasons for or against this conflict are secondary. As are the beliefs that our president has the ability or the time to preach diplomacy to the choir.
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I think we're in ageement here. Netanyahu is beholden to the Israeli right, and Abadenijad has definately drunk the Kool-Aid. (The question is whether the Guardian Council who is really in control in Iran have drunk it as well). All I wassaying is that Netanyahu is trying to put pressure on Obama to force him to confront Iran rather than taking a slower diplomatic approach.
FQ13
It would not be the first time the Israeli's have told our Govt. "Either you do something, or WE will." Remember the big rush to get "Patriot" SAMs to Israel, and take out Sadams Scuds ? That was in response to Israeli threats to retaliate for the attacks on them, that would have wrecked Bush's Coalition, The Arab countries would have dropped out and probably would have RESISTED our efforts.
Iran getting Nukes is an even bigger incentive, in fact it was EXACTLY for that reason they bombed the Iraqi facility as Osirak,and the facility in Syria. If BO does not do anything the Israeli's absolutely WILL launch a strike on it, HOW they choose to strike is important. If it's a conventional airstrike, by aircraft (manned or not ) flying in and dropping bombs and missiles, I don't foresee any terrible consequences beyond normal. HOWEVER, if They try a ballistic missile or Nuke I think the whole region would explode.
Unfortunately, Netanyahu has been known to shoot first and worry about getting out later.