The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: tfr270 on April 18, 2009, 01:03:51 PM

Title: home defense shotgun
Post by: tfr270 on April 18, 2009, 01:03:51 PM
I'm shopping for a shotgun for the home. Lots of choices out there and I'm thinking of a Mossberg 500 pump. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Hazcat on April 18, 2009, 01:12:12 PM
Mossberg is a fine choice!  If is home defense only take a look at their JIC (Just in Case) series 500.

If ya just want a 500 pump then look for a good used one.  A little over a year ago I picked up a 500 (with chokes) for $150.00.  Works just fine.  The ONLY thing I would suggest changing is the safety 'button'.  Get a metal one (about $10.00 installed).
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: m25operator on April 18, 2009, 01:35:20 PM
I know lots of people who like the Mossie, they're just not slick enough for me, I like 870's and my shotgun instructor preferred them as well, tactical not skeet instructor. This is mine.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/m25operator/100_1338.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/m25operator/100_1342.jpg)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/m25operator/100_1341.jpg)
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: TAB on April 18, 2009, 02:04:27 PM
What ever you choose, make sure the gun fits you.  a poorly fit shot gun is awful to shoot.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Rob10ring on April 18, 2009, 03:15:41 PM
I just got home from a match, where we shot shotguns with slugs along side our side-arms. The only similarities to actual defense was that you had to be behind cover and the adrenaline is going and effecting decisions. For ultimate reliability, I've always gone for the pumps. But when the adrenaline took over, there were a lot of hiccups, where people tried to pull the trigger without having racked the next round in, or they short stroked the pump. This was on a much higher number of the pump gun users than I would have expected. The guys with semis (Bennelis, Rem 11-87s, FN's and even a SPAS 12) cleaned house on the 5 targets, and quite speedily. The only hiccup in the autos, was one guy who was trying out low-recoil ammo in a Benelli M2. It was more of a FRONT SITE - PULL THE TRIGGER - FRONT SITE - PULL THE TRIGGER…. Semi-auto shotguns are more reliable than ever before. One of the things that favors the pump is that bird shot is never a problem with it, and that's probably usually all you'll really need in a home. Most semis will function with light loads, but some are finicky.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on April 18, 2009, 03:28:44 PM
I also recommend the 500 too, and the Rem. 870 is a good choice as well. I have a 500 "Breacher" model; not sure what it is called today. I put a Knox stock (http://www.blackhawk.com (http://www.blackhawk.com)) on it and I'll soon add a Picatinny rail to mount a red-dot scope. No matter which one you choose, I suggest sticking with Mossberg or Remington because the aftermarket products for these guns is very large and developed.

And despite what the "Gun Store Commandos" say, don't think you have to stick with a 12 gauge for home defense. A viable option is a 20 gauge pump or semi-auto from Remington or Mossberg. In fact, check out these podcasts: http://proarms.podbean.com/category/shotguns/
Listen to A and B. They give a very compelling case for a 20 gauge. And if you have a significant other who can't handle the recoil of a 12 gauge, this would be of great benefit to them.

I hope this helps....Good Luck!
 
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Hazcat on April 18, 2009, 03:29:09 PM
Fuzdaddy,

I would have liked to to ask those short strokers (NO pun intended) if they normally use or even started on semis instead of the pump.

Reason I ask is my son uses a pump and when he tries a semi he screws up on target aquisition (shoots steel targets against others.  7 targets to a side and the middle 'winner') cause he is used to 'doing something' in between shots.  Sorta like me with my thumb and revolvers and 1911s.  Gotta do 'something' with my thumb for at least that first shot. ;)
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Hazcat on April 18, 2009, 03:30:23 PM
I also recommend the 500 too, and the Rem. 870 is a good choice as well. I have a 500 "Breacher" model; not sure what it is called today. I put a Knox stock on it (highly recommended) and I'll soon add a Picatinny rail to mount a red-dot scope. No matter which one you choose, I suggest sticking with Mossberg or Remington because the aftermarket products for these guns is very large and developed.

And despite what the "Gun Store Commandos" say, don't think you have to stick with a 12 gauge for home defense. A viable option is a 20 gauge pump or semi-auto from Remington or Mossberg. In fact, check out these podcasts: http://proarms.podbean.com/category/shotguns/
Listen to A and B. They give a very compelling case for a 20 gauge. And if you have a significant other who can't handle the recoil of a 12 gauge, this would be of great benefit to them.

I hope this helps....Good Luck!
 

Good advise on the 20, FA.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: sgtmac on April 18, 2009, 03:32:31 PM
The Navy uses Mossberg 500's, I have put thousands of rounds through them and never a hiccup! I really like the saftey on top when you have a normal stock. I own both a 500 and an 870, the are both good choices. I think you will find better deals on a Mossberg then on a Remington! Hope that helps a little.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Hazcat on April 18, 2009, 03:34:50 PM
The Navy uses Mossberg 500's, I have put thousands of rounds through them and never a hiccup! I really like the saftey on top when you have a normal stock. I own both a 500 and an 870, the are both good choices. I think you will find better deals on a Mossberg then on a Remington! Hope that helps a little.

When I went to get the shotty for my son he didn't like the controls on the 870 either.  The top safety and slide release on the 500 are just more intuative.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: sgtmac on April 18, 2009, 03:40:37 PM
I have a Mariner with Houge overmolded stock, it is really a nice shot gun. My 870 has a pistol grip and is setup a little different, but like the other posts, you can't go wrong no matter what. Shotguns are cheap enough, why not get one of each? ;D
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on April 18, 2009, 03:41:44 PM
Fuzdaddy,
I would have liked to to ask those short strokers (NO pun intended).......

;D  ;D

And thanks for the other comment too.....  :)
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Big Frank on April 18, 2009, 04:44:47 PM
I have a Remington Sportsman 12 Auto (M-1100). I cut the barrel down from 28" to 18-1/2". It would sometimes malfunction with light target loads in winter but worked with all ammo types the rest of the year. I reamed out the gas ports 1 drill size larger and now it works with low-recoil ammo in the winter as well. I put a Choate pistol grip stock on it and can shoot it one-handed if I have to. A pump would be a lot harder to cycle "Sarah Conner style" if one hand is disabled. I have a 7-shot mag extension and a few other accessories on it too.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Gossamer on April 18, 2009, 06:13:36 PM
I lihe the side by side Stoeger coach gun myself. I use my shotgun as "artillery", everyone gets into my safe room and if a bad guy tries to come in they have to deal with my side by side and multiple handguns. I like the fact that it is short and I don't have to worry about short storking the action. Also it is easy for anyone to use.

Yes you only get two shots but I will just drop it and then use a second gun. Even though I practice with it I still cannot reload it faster than I can get a second gun into action. Just my two cents.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Rob10ring on April 18, 2009, 07:18:30 PM
Fuzdaddy,

I would have liked to to ask those short strokers (NO pun intended)
Even while I was typing it, I had to remind myself that it is what it is.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: tfr270 on April 19, 2009, 01:17:09 PM
Thanks guys,
What i'm envisoning is a home defense gun only, pump action (I've never owned a semi-auto), with a flashlight attachment and an extended tube. I prefer straight stock over pistol grip. Looks like a trip to the gun store is in order. Oh, darn.   
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: 1911 Junkie on April 19, 2009, 01:49:12 PM
More porn........................hey, M25 started it.
I have a Mossberg 500A with side saddle and a Rem 1187 with extended tube, poly choke, magnaported
barrel, and also a side saddle.  I want a Rem 870 like M25 has for a house gun.
The mossberg can be a PIA to reassemble (note I did not say disassemble) the first few times you do it.

Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: twyacht on April 19, 2009, 03:25:40 PM
I went the 870 route, got the ATI adj. rear stock, but left the front alone.

Other than that, I have a Stoeger coach gun with external hammers. I always wanted a 12g that ol' bartenders kept under the bar,.. ::)

The 870 is kept in the safe. the Stoeger is loaded with Winchester Buck 9 pellet, with a spare shell slip on sleeve on the butt.

Just in case,....



Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: tfr270 on April 19, 2009, 04:32:27 PM
With this being Sunday the two real gun stores in town are closed. So I went to the Big 5 Sporting Goods and looked at the Remington Security, the H&R Pardner, and the Charles Daly Tac and Field. If you like loose pumps that rattle and stick, go with the H&R or the Charles Daly. The Remington lives up to the name and was nice, but I'm just not sure about this model. Is the Security built on the 870 model? The counterperson (not a gun guy, just an employee at the gun counter) wouldn't take the trigger safety off for me to check it out (Never run into that before) but it felt a little long on me.
So, I come home and tell the wife, expecting to get pulled into the garden project, and she says she'll just finish up what she's doing and we can go down to Bullseye in San Rafeal...indoor shooting range, rental guns, full service gun shop...and see what they have. Oh yeah...she hunts, shoots, and understands. 
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: PegLeg45 on April 19, 2009, 04:36:51 PM
With this being Sunday the two real gun stores in town are closed. So I went to the Big 5 Sporting Goods and looked at the Remington Security, the H&R Pardner, and the Charles Daly Tac and Field. If you like loose pumps that rattle and stick, go with the H&R or the Charles Daly. The Remington lives up to the name and was nice, but I'm just not sure about this model. Is the Security built on the 870 model? The counterperson (not a gun guy, just an employee at the gun counter) wouldn't take the trigger safety off for me to check it out (Never run into that before) but it felt a little long on me.
So, I come home and tell the wife, expecting to get pulled into the garden project, and she says she'll just finish up what she's doing and we can go down to Bullseye in San Rafeal...indoor shooting range, rental guns, full service gun shop...and see what they have. Oh yeah...she hunts, shoots, and understands

That's really nice, ain't it?   :D
Mine too.

I have a 1300 Defender Winchester and my son uses an 870 Express. Both are good guns.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: fightingquaker13 on April 19, 2009, 04:56:36 PM
And despite what the "Gun Store Commandos" say, don't think you have to stick with a 12 gauge for home defense. A viable option is a 20 gauge pump or semi-auto from Remington or Mossberg. In fact, check out these podcasts: http://proarms.podbean.com/category/shotguns/
Listen to A and B. They give a very compelling case for a 20 gauge. And if you have a significant other who can't handle the recoil of a 12 gauge, this would be of great benefit to them.

I hope this helps....Good Luck!
 

Thanks for posting that podcast fullauto. It was very informative. I would highly reccomend it. Not only did I enjoy hearing Ayoob mention that pistol grip only shot guns be confined to "Rambo night at the range" (which has been my opinion for years, I seriously how do you aim one?), but I learned a lot about loads. The main thing I got out of it was the general consensus that for most of us non-rural types the shot gun belongs in the safe room. For this my very non-tactical merkel SxS will do fine. I need not feel underdressed wthout the Mossberg 500s that have been whispering seductively to me for a few years now. Its amazing how helpful hearing someone like Ayoob say you don't need it helps in resisting temptation.
FQ13
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Dharmaeye on April 19, 2009, 05:07:38 PM
Personally got a Mossbery 500A and put on it a Knoxx recoil reducing adjustable stock and a weaver/ pic rail to mount a red dot. These two options make an excellent home defense shotgun.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: 1776 Rebel on April 19, 2009, 05:14:16 PM
Here is an interesting post from another blog. If you don't follow him, I suggest you browse his site. He writes well and does some very cool range experiments etc...In this post he fires buckshot from a fully rifled barrel and gets interesting results...like in not good.

http://carteach0.blogspot.com/2009/04/buckshot-fired-from-rifled-shotgun.html
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: 1911 Junkie on April 19, 2009, 06:32:56 PM
I've never liked the feel of a pistol grip on a shotgun. I felt as if I had less control over it.

There's really nothing wrong with mossbergs and the market is pretty well saturated with them so you
can still find deals.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on April 19, 2009, 08:04:18 PM
Thanks for posting that podcast fullauto. It was very informative. I would highly reccomend it. Not only did I enjoy hearing Ayoob mention that pistol grip only shot guns be confined to "Rambo night at the range" (which has been my opinion for years, I seriously how do you aim one?), but I learned a lot about loads. The main thing I got out of it was the general consensus that for most of us non-rural types the shot gun belongs in the safe room. For this my very non-tactical merkel SxS will do fine. I need not feel underdressed wthout the Mossberg 500s that have been whispering seductively to me for a few years now. Its amazing how helpful hearing someone like Ayoob say you don't need it helps in resisting temptation.
FQ13

I was surprised to learn the Canadian Wildlife Service uses slugs to cull Grizzly bears.....  :o

I have #1 buckshot on the way too from Natchez. After Mas's presentation on load selection, I thought I would give them a try. And he's right about scarcity. I went to a couple of gun shops and none had them in stock.

They also have a podcast devoted to the Glock, which I'm going to post in another thread. I'm sure the 1911 crowd will be filled with eager anticipation for that one......  ;)
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: tfr270 on April 19, 2009, 10:35:49 PM
Well, we went down to Bullseye and had great conversation with real gun people. I listened to and watch Ayoob on the shotgun before I went. They only had one 20g 870 there with a pistol grip and a recoil reducing stock. He did try to sell us on that, as is his job, but we both tried it on and didn't really like it. We both shoot standard stock rifles and the pistol grip didn't feel right to either of us. We'll try and see if we can get an 870 express in 20 w/ monte carlo stock so we both can shoot it. Then we got sidetracked....probably to the handgun forum...We got into the rental gun range with a Sp101, SW 636, Glock 9mm, and Sig 9mm...OMG. We had a blast. They rent shotguns too so next time we'll go down and try them out...What we learned was the small frame .357 vs. the med frame .357...the med frame .357 hands down for the wife and me. She needs to train on proper form for a semi-auto...they both did the muzzle flip and stove piped repeatedly. I did better on the semi-autos. So we learned that the good old 4" barrel revolver is the best defense for Sara as she can shoot that repeatedly and accurately.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: m25operator on April 19, 2009, 11:07:18 PM
I did an 18" cylinder bore 870 with a pistol grip, and learned several things, with birdshot, normal loads, like dove loads, it was like a .44 mag in a handgun, with buckshot, not reduced recoil as it was not available then, it would recoil hard enough that the forend would come out of your weak hand, and to hit, you needed to point it with your eyes over the barrel, just like with a long stock, it was easier to pump with your strong hand, and keep the weak hand attached to the forend, but after a couple of rounds, the receiver kept getting closer to the body, until it hit you in the nose. the super short setup has it's place, but not in the home, I think the car and with a fold out stock, and if you go the pistol grip, get the forward pistol grip too.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: jaybet on April 20, 2009, 09:02:34 AM
Well, we went down to Bullseye and had great conversation with real gun people. I listened to and watch Ayoob on the shotgun before I went. They only had one 20g 870 there with a pistol grip and a recoil reducing stock. He did try to sell us on that, as is his job, but we both tried it on and didn't really like it. We both shoot standard stock rifles and the pistol grip didn't feel right to either of us. We'll try and see if we can get an 870 express in 20 w/ monte carlo stock so we both can shoot it. Then we got sidetracked....probably to the handgun forum...We got into the rental gun range with a Sp101, SW 636, Glock 9mm, and Sig 9mm...OMG. We had a blast. They rent shotguns too so next time we'll go down and try them out...What we learned was the small frame .357 vs. the med frame .357...the med frame .357 hands down for the wife and me. She needs to train on proper form for a semi-auto...they both did the muzzle flip and stove piped repeatedly. I did better on the semi-autos. So we learned that the good old 4" barrel revolver is the best defense for Sara as she can shoot that repeatedly and accurately.
Hi TFR
It's a great idea to try all kinds of guns if you are somewhat new to the variety out there. My wife and I have shotguns but we do not rely on them for home defense. During the first couple of range trips with handguns my wife objected to the muzzle flip and casings bouncing off barriers and hitting her- she just doesn't like all that semi-auto action while shooting. She has settled on several revolvers that she loves, including a S&W 686 (that 4" barrel), which is her go-to. We have a Model 60 snubbie that she will shoot but doesn't like because of the recoil- it's tough on the hand. Her GP 161 (6") is big and heavy, and is used mostly at the range, as are the single action pieces.

While she doesn't enjoy shooting my semi autos, she fires them every time we go to the range and handles them when we are cleaning so that she's familiar. In a pinch she can operate any of them. We cycle through our handguns for bedside duty except for a few that aren't 100% reliable. If she can't easily operate the the piece, it is never used for defense.

That's the public discussion. We do, of course, have a couple of surprises lined up for any hapless knuckleheads that err on the side of stupidity.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Hazcat on April 20, 2009, 09:32:58 AM
TFR,

Another idea (depending on how tall ya both are) is a youth model (Batam) in the 500.

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=22&display=specs
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Michael Bane on April 20, 2009, 11:25:58 AM
I believe the 20 works fine for self-defense...I have a 20 gauge 870 that I bought NIB years ago at a going-out-of-business gunstore for (brace yourselves) $100...I kept that as my primary SD shotgun for years (loaded with Remington #3 buckshot). I replaced it with a 12 gauge 870 from Hans Vang. The drawback to 20 is three-fold — the ammunition is generally more expensive and even in good times less available than 12 gauge; because LEOs are standardized on the 12, there's less high-end LEO ammo development  (such as the Hornaday TAPS I prefer or the superb Federal LE FliteControl buck or Federal LE low recoil slugs) for the 20; thirdly, there's no 20 gauge equivalent of the Winchester Extra Lite/Feather Lite 12 gauge shells, which make the best practice ammo. I have shot 20 gauge Win AA Target loads alongside Win 12 gauge Feather Lites and there's no comparison...the 12s have (to me) substantially less recoil then the 20s. (Cavaet...I have never tried the Remington Managed Recoil 20s, so I can't comment on them).

Although my first 2 choices for hardware would  DEFINITELY be the 870 followed by the Mossberg, I would like to point out the FNH Tactical Police pump shotgun, which is the old Winchester 1300 on steroids, or, if you're in a retro mood or are a cowboy action shooter, the newest generation of Chinese copies of the Winchester '97 pump. The cowboy shooters over the years have essentially debugged the '97, which was a very good shotgun to begin with, and the current Chinese copies are up to snuff and inexpensive. I've put more round through my cowboy competition shotgun than any shotgun I own (probably including my sporting clays Winchester X2).

Michael B


Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Hazcat on April 20, 2009, 12:16:23 PM
Here ya go

http://www.maverickarms.com/pages/88security.htm
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: fightingquaker13 on April 20, 2009, 12:29:14 PM
Here ya go

http://www.maverickarms.com/pages/88security.htm
Get thee behind me Haz! Seriously, a man can take so much.
FQ13 who is repeating the words Ayoob says I don't need one, Ayoob says I don't need one......
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: tombogan03884 on April 20, 2009, 02:41:57 PM
Maverick should be a great gun for the money, they are a division of Mossberg.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Big Frank on April 20, 2009, 06:23:40 PM
Aren't the Mavericks made in Mexico? I haven't looked at them lately so I don't know.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: Hazcat on April 20, 2009, 06:26:26 PM
Aren't the Mavericks made in Mexico? I haven't looked at them lately so I don't know.

Don't know Jumbo, but Mossberg puts their name on 'em so................

I'd bet 'not the best fit and finish' but with the Mossy name on it I would think it functions just fine.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: PegLeg45 on April 20, 2009, 06:32:09 PM
Web page says barrels are interchangeable with the 500 also.
Fit and finish along with the safety being the traditional crossbolt, instead of tang-mounted, appear to be the main differences.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: fightingquaker13 on April 20, 2009, 08:07:28 PM
Aren't the Mavericks made in Mexico? I haven't looked at them lately so I don't know.
So that means all those shotgun murders in the US are caused by Mexican weapons? Where's the media?
FQ13
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: ericire12 on April 20, 2009, 08:11:18 PM
So that means all those shotgun murders in the US are caused by Mexican weapons? Where's the media?
FQ13

In Obama's back pocket
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: texcaliber on April 20, 2009, 08:50:42 PM
I prefer the Moss. tang  safety over the 870push-button when transitioning from right to left shoulder due to the accidental engagement of the Rem. safety with the trigger finger.  Plenty of training with empty gun has not "fixed" the problem under recoil.

Really easy fix was the Mossberg 590. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: MAUSERMAN on May 01, 2009, 01:09:20 AM
Mossberg 500 behind my closest door and my glock22 thats home defense. Low recoil 00buck and corbon 40S&W hp's i sleep very soundly. Wait my girlfriends G19 also helps me sleep.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: tfr270 on May 02, 2009, 08:10:04 PM
Well, I have an older 870 that I figured out I can modify to fit my needs. I don't mind the push button safety as I have one on my Marlin .30-30 and my 10-.22.
I'll post some before and after pictures. Basically I'll have replaced the 26" vent rib with an 18" cylinder barrel, the forearm with a tactical forearm, a short magazine extender, and a sidesaddle for reloads. The modification will only cost about 200 bucks, which will save me money over a new one that I can spend on shells and range time to practice with it.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 03, 2009, 10:39:22 PM
I would like to remark, on the record for all those following this thread, that Hazcat sucks! I mentioned that I wanted a Mossberg, but I said I was staying clean as no lesser a figure than Maas Ayoob had assured me (via podcast) that I didn't need one. What did Haz do? Did he respect my my decision? No, he did not! Instead, he showed me the Mossberg Maverick line, essentially the same gun with fewer features at a lower price, thats what he did. Today, a forum member indicated that he wanted to sell one and I am now contracted to buy it and its ALL HAZ'S FAULT! Don't trust this guy he's evil. Pure evil, I tell you.  ;D
FQ13 who will now go play with his DOG, and is recalling the remark of friend who once saw me handling used rods in a fly shop and remarked that I was so easy it was a good thing I wasn't a girl.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: 1911 Junkie on May 03, 2009, 10:53:33 PM
FQ13 who will now go play with his DOG SELF, and is recalling the remark of friend who once saw me handling used rods in a fly shop and remarked that I was so easy it was a good thing I wasn't a girl.

Fixed

Sometimes it's just not that challenging. ;D
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 04, 2009, 12:30:18 AM
Fixed

Sometimes it's just not that challenging. ;D
At least I didn't have to buy dinner or meet her folks. ;)
FQ13
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: garand4life on May 04, 2009, 07:55:59 AM
Aren't the Mavericks made in Mexico? I haven't looked at them lately so I don't know.
Maverick is made in USA. Says it right on the gun.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 04, 2009, 10:05:50 AM
I would like to remark, on the record for all those following this thread, that Hazcat sucks! I mentioned that I wanted a Mossberg, but I said I was staying clean as no lesser a figure than Maas Ayoob had assured me (via podcast) that I didn't need one. What did Haz do? Did he respect my my decision? No, he did not! Instead, he showed me the Mossberg Maverick line, essentially the same gun with fewer features at a lower price, thats what he did. Today, a forum member indicated that he wanted to sell one and I am now contracted to buy it and its ALL HAZ'S FAULT! Don't trust this guy he's evil. Pure evil, I tell you.  ;D
FQ13 who will now go play with his DOG, and is recalling the remark of friend who once saw me handling used rods in a fly shop and remarked that I was so easy it was a good thing I wasn't a girl.

The word you are looking for is "enabler"  ;D
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 04, 2009, 01:32:57 PM
The word you are looking for is "enabler"  ;D
Indeed! However garand4life got a better deal at his gundealer. Its one I would have jumped on with both feet and as our agreement was conditional anyway,I wish him the joy of his new mossberg (An even money swap from a maverick 88 with two barrels to a 500A. Who's going to say no that?). Anyway, I am now, thanks to Haz the enabler (thanks Tom) and Garand4life, the gun tease, back in the market for a used defensive shotgun at a reasonable price. If anyone is looking to thin the herd, PM me.
FQ13
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: 1776 Rebel on May 04, 2009, 01:54:05 PM
Maverick is made in USA. Says it right on the gun.

The Mavericks are built down in old Mexico...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3197/is_n1_v34/ai_7396559/

So now and in the future the Mossberg Torreon operation will produce all Mossberg shotgun barrels and by March 1989 yet another plant will go on line at Eagle Pass, Texas -- some 200 miles southwest of San Antonio. The Eagle Pass operation will manufacture Mossberg's new pump action shotgun which will be known to the sporting world as the "Maverick" -- a pump shotgun destined to be well-constructed and will retail at a most competitive price that we understand will be difficult to match.


Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: garand4life on May 04, 2009, 04:56:42 PM
By that article it says that barrels are made at the mexico plant but the Maverick gun it self will be made in Eagle Pass TX. Not 100% of the gun is made in the US. The barrels are made in Mexico. But the gun is still made here.
Title: Re: home defense shotgun
Post by: 1776 Rebel on May 04, 2009, 08:11:59 PM
Garand, that article was from 1989 when they opened up the plant in Mexico. I found a more recent one which details better the current situation. Seems like most of the internals are made in Mexico. Shipped to Texas and put together. I believe the paper is the Del Rio News Herald from 2006...Either way they are fine guns for the price...


Maverick Arms to double its size in Eagle Pass
view
links
November 14, 2006
By Bill Sontag
Feature Writer


Maverick Arms leaders show off three popular Mossberg guns [picture], following a thorough factory tour of the plant in Eagle Pass. From left, Refugio “Cuco” Reyes, controller (with rifle and scope), Arturo Lopez, director of operations (with Turkish 12 gauge over-and-under shotgun), and Jesus Gutierrez, engineer and manager of quality control (with “high definition” camouflaged shotgun), comprise much of the management team for Maverick Arms. It’s been 17 years since Maverick Arms opened a 40,000-square-foot manufacturing plant in the Eagle Pass Industrial Park where virtually all O.F. Mossberg & Sons shotguns and rifles are produced.

Now, with outstanding response from a world firearms market, Maverick Arms is more than doubling the size of company operations here. It will doubtless increase the Eagle Pass workforce, according to Maverick Arms Controller Refugio “Cuco” Reyes, though he says the company has not announced details and numbers of anticipated employment plans.

Maverick Arms currently has 200 employees, and just last year it was 155, so the cadre is sure to climb when the new plant addition brings square footage to 85,000. With the current workforce, Maverick Arms produces approximately 245,000 shotguns and rifles each year, explained Gerardo Arturo Lopez, Maverick Arms director of operations, Friday (Oct. 27). That equates to about 1,600 guns built each workday.

But one unique trait of Maverick Arms is its standing as a “reverse maquila.” Whereas most maquiladora (“twin plant”) industries send small parts or components to Mexico for assembly, and return to the United States as completed products, Mossberg guns must reverse the process.

“In Mexico, it is not allowed to produce or buy guns,” said Lopez. So, for the Mossberg guns, parts – receivers, barrels, and stocks, for example – are produced in North Haven, Conn. and Torreon, Coah., Mexico, then shipped to Eagle Pass for assembly. The Maverick Arms plant also serves as the company’s primary shipping and distribution center.

The company is an exemplar of international trade, sending raw steel on flatbed trucks to Torreon, and receiving sealed containers of barrels, triggers and bolt assemblies on pallets in return. Receivers and stocks are produced in North Haven, and shipped to Eagle Pass to be married with parts from Mexico.

The Mossberg “Reserve” series guns are the showpieces of their line. This is the Silver Reserve 12 gauge over-and-under shotgun with 28-inch barrels with a fine gold-colored engraving over silver. The gun has five interchangeable chokes for maximum flexibility of hunting conditions.

Unfinished wood stocks are stained, varnished and polished in the Eagle Pass plant, but what Gutierrez calls a “high definition” treatment is applied, with film in a flotation chemical process, to plastic composition stocks. Essentially a wide variety of camouflage patterns in muted colors of grey, tan, brown and green, high definition is in high demand from customers with personal choices in mind. A simulated wood grain may also be applied with film in the same process.

Shotgun calibers produced here run the gamut from .410 gauge to 20 gauge, 12 gauge and 12 gauge magnum. Rifles produced in Eagle Pass include all calibers from a bolt-action .243 to 7mm. In addition, an estimated 18,000 guns each year are produced to satisfy Army and Navy contracts.

“High definition” camouflage lamination over stocks and barrels is a popular trend in some parts of the country, though not popular in Del Rio yet. The 835 Ulti-Mag Flyway series made in Eagle Pass is a 12 gauge shotgun that has an “overbored” and “ported” barrel to reduce muzzle jump and the sensation of recoil. Contributed photo/Mossberg

“There are a lot of our guns in Afghanistan and Iraq,” said Jesus Gutierrez, Maverick Arms manufacturing engineer and quality control manager. The armed forces shotguns are designed to handle high-capacity loads, all are pump action and finished with magnesium phosphate-treated steel. In addition, Maverick Arms also produces several lines of short-barreled guns for law enforcement contracts only.

Leadership team members at Maverick Arms are outwardly proud of their products. “‘More Gun For The Money’ is our company motto,” said Gutierrez. “We produce a very reliable product, but at an affordable price.”

The Mossberg Company marks its origin to 1919 with roots in tiny, palm-sized pistols before moving into long gun manufacture. A native of Sweden, Oscar Frederick Mossberg was born in 1866, and came to the United States 20 years later. The company has flourished, with tight requirements for precision and quality.

According to Gutierrez, all Mossberg and Maverick Arms guns feature a 10-year warranty, but Maverick Arms in Eagle Pass also manages a small group of gunsmiths who can perform all repairs to the company’s shotguns and rifles. They also customize guns to suit Mossberg patrons’ specifications.

Maverick Arms manufacturing plant and distribution center is a centerpiece of international trade in the Eagle Pass industrial park. The 40,000-square-foot facility will soon more than double in size to step up assembly and shipment of nearly all Mossberg guns. LIVE! Bill Sontag

lFor more information about Maverick Arms guns and rifles, see the Mossberg Web site at www.mossberg.com.


For more stories like this, see these categories: Business | News | November 2006 Issue