The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: m25operator on April 19, 2009, 01:08:34 AM
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I just got through watching the original die hard for the 130th time, love it, but how about discussing the scenario, and the movie character John Mc Clane, and his circumstance. I'm sure most of us have seen it at least 12 times, this could lead to dissecting Heat, under siege etc.. fun but with input.
What do ya'll think?
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The only reason to watch under siege is the cake schene... I don't care how bad ass you are, your not going to take back a ship, more so one designed to repell boarders.
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The only reason to watch under siege is the cake schene... I don't care how bad ass you are, your not going to take back a ship, more so one designed to repell boarders.
You are wrong(again) TAB, The SEALS make their living training to take back ships (among other things) Same as the SAS, SBS, and several other Special ops organizations around the world.
Also, while repelling boarders was NOT a major design consideration for 1940's era Battleships, any consideration given to the problem was directed outward, in other words keeping people from getting aboard, not defending against assaults from with in. As a former CG Officer you of all people should understand that those steel hatches are to keep WATER out, not armed aggressors.
Sorry M25, it's been to long since I last saw Die Hard ;D
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A friend of mine was in the Navy on a oiler. They were given information that Navy seals were doing training, and were going to try to board there ship. Now mind you, they knew that they were comming. They were at full steam ahead in the middle of the Atlantic. They had there normal watch plus six extra men roaming the ship, looking for anything out of the ordinary. At one A.M. the Captain was escorted to the bridge with a gun to his head by Navy Seals. At the same time engineering, the weapons holding area and communicatioins were all under the Seals control. They had a after actions board on the ship to discuss what happend. No one saw or heard anything. They were taken easlily. He said that he never found out how they got aboard.
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Having met a couple of real, honest to God team guys, I'm just glad theyre on our side.
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From what I remember from Die Hard is, about 100,000 rounds of ammo seemed to be expended and Bruce still survived to make the sequel, and then another, and then a forth, divorce Demi, marry a hottie, lose most of his hair, become a harmonica player, bar owner, make 20 Million a picture and still not be able to act worth a shit.....
lucky guy....
;D
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Chance to mutilate the good guy. ;D ;D ;D GUN'S ;D ;D ;D
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Entertainment....all the movies were pretty unbelieveable. I mean, he should've died many, many times. Blown up, shot up, beat up. The scenario would seem to me to be one of intervene or escape and evade. For the sake of the movie it was intervene for the chance to rescue his ex-wife...I mean...come on! I wouldn't walk across the street to spit on my ex-wife if she was on fire! The bad guy's were extemely compliant in not killing hostages, going after him one at a time, and dying relatively easily except for the two or three big bad guys...kinda like video games.
What would I have done? Heck...don't know. If I had training and abilities maybe intervene. But I'd have to be one major bad ass myself. It my current state...escape and evade....get out and get help.
Now...Siegals movies...He doesn't get all beat up and shot up and blown up like Bruce does in his flicks. And he's supposedly this real hard case, highly trained, extremely dangerous man who retired from the teams to follow his captain around and be his cook. Could happen that way. But they still track him down one or two at at time and don't kill the hostages. I don't think that would happen in real life. I think they'd start killing hostages and send a team of guys to track you down and kill you.
As for the SEAL teams taking ships...oh yeah...it is done. I have a friend in the CG. Their ship was tied up at Alameda. They were told they were going to be the subject of a SEAL exercise and told to prepare themselves, as this would happen during the night watches on this night. So they doubled the watch and patroled the rails. Next thing they know the captain gets a phone call, is told the SEALS have came and gone, and for proof to go look in the engine room. They found a "bomb" there with a note.
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He should have taken shoes sooner, the glass in the feet in the men's room was tough.
Hans,... Booby,... I'm your white night. 8)
Lots of great quotes in that movie.
As far as Under Siege, the Pepsi Bottle Silencer, was cool. has anyone tried that?
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He should have taken shoes sooner, the glass in the feet in the men's room was tough.
Hans,... Booby,... I'm your white night. 8)
Lots of great quotes in that movie.
As far as Under Siege, the Pepsi Bottle Silencer, was cool. has anyone tried that?
Yes you can make a 'muffler' out of a soda bottle.....
but...... um...er..uh...NO I've never made a 'muffler' out of a soda bottle. :o
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The soda bottle suppressor was " on deadly ground " but some good observations here, enough have seen it, to make comment, lets start at the beginning, your the only person there with a firearm, Beretta m9, with 2 mags, caught with your shoes off, not there as a security anything, just trying to patch things up with the wife , which has no bearing, except for defense of family, you are the lucky one to begin with, you got out, sans shoes, and the rest are left to the terrorists, boring as it may be, not out of danger but perhaps more appropriate, get to the bottom floor at the rear of the building and escape, call the laws and wait, now knowing what is going on upstairs and your wife is part of it, does change things, to most of us, Not an EX just yet. This I hope is a fun exercise, not an absolute what if, and so far you guys are taking it rationally, let's keep going that way and see what happens? Kill 1 terrorist, and Now " I have a machine gun".
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You are wrong(again) TAB, The SEALS make their living training to take back ships (among other things) Same as the SAS, SBS, and several other Special ops organizations around the world.
Also, while repelling boarders was NOT a major design consideration for 1940's era Battleships, any consideration given to the problem was directed outward, in other words keeping people from getting aboard, not defending against assaults from with in. As a former CG Officer you of all people should understand that those steel hatches are to keep WATER out, not armed aggressors.
Sorry M25, it's been to long since I last saw Die Hard ;D
big diffrence between a seals team, fully armed and a single unarmed person. I was not speaking of steel hatchs. I was speaking o several levels of defenses.
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Yes you can make a 'muffler' out of a soda bottle.....
but...... um...er..uh...NO I've never made a 'muffler' out of a soda bottle. :o
Because it would be WRONG! ;D Just for the record the old gator poachers used to put a few baby bottle nipples oer the barrel of a .22 short. Rumour has it that that ain't too shabby either at a distance.
FQ13
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Always wear shoes....and pick up guns & ammo as you go...if the gun works for the bad guy, it'll work for you....
...and always carry a good knife....sometimes, it's better to have than a gun...
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The plastic Pepsi bottle suppressor DOES work. The one liter bottle works better than the two liter. I've only used it on a 1911. I'd have to believe it works on anything smaller (if you can get a good seal at the attach point).
By the way......... These guys are TERRORISTS (OK, high end thieves, but he didn't know that) so you kill them as you run across them and NEVER LEAVE A FUNCTIONING WEAPON BEHIND!
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As far-fetched (but entertaining, none the less) as 'Die Hard' was, I think McLean used the best tactics for what he was doing.
Basically he had three real-world choices: Try to escape and get help (building was locked down tight), hide and hope they spare your wife and hostages, or fight.
Since he chose to fight, he did the only thing he could do in the given situation which was guerrilla style, hit-and-run tactics against superior numbers.
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As far-fetched (but entertaining, none the less) as 'Die Hard' was, I think McLean used the best tactics for what he was doing.
Basically he had three real-world choices: Try to escape and get help (building was locked down tight), hide and hope they spare your wife and hostages, or fight.
Since he chose to fight, he did the only thing he could do in the given situation which was guerrilla style, hit-and-run tactics against superior numbers.
Same answer to TAB about "Under Siege", A limited number of foes makes it even less incredible.
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Same answer to TAB about "Under Siege", A limited number of foes makes it even less incredible.
Unless they start shooting hostages until you give yourself up. Then you've made the situation worse (for either the hostages or you) than if you'd just waited for the professionals. It would have made for a lot more boring movie though (minute 63, McClain still hiding in air vent).
FQ13
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Unless they start shooting hostages until you give yourself up. Then you've made the situation worse (for either the hostages or you) than if you'd just waited for the professionals. It would have made for a lot more boring movie though (minute 63, McClain still hiding in air vent).
FQ13
If they are willing to shoot the hostages for a troublemaker, they were probably going to kill them in the end to 'tie up loose ends'.
I know you don't ever know what someone is going to do, but the BG's in the movie were intending to blow up the hostages in the end. Once he figured that part out, it was kind of a 'no brainer' from there.
If he had not done what he done, the professionals wouldn't have know what was going on until the roof had blown off and the BG's were long gone.
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Anyone notice that the black cop later played Steve Urkels dad on the TV show?
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Anyone notice that the black cop later played Steve Urkels dad on the TV show?
OUt of respect for the United States Navy I'm going to pretend that you never posted that. ;D
FQ13
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OUt of respect for the United States Navy I'm going to pretend that you never posted that. ;D
FQ13
Hey, I do have a kid....24 and she still watches Hanna Montana aka Billy Ray Cirus, Jr'ette!!! ;)
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I liked the movie Ronin for its somewhat realistic shoot-outs and the awesome car chase. I also liked the movie The Kingdom. That shoot-out in the apartment building had me on the edge of my seat.
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Anyone notice that the black cop later played Steve Urkels dad on the TV show?
See, this is why we don't get taken seriously. Steve Urkel was the neighbor, not the son. Harumph. ;D
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What I liked about the John McClane character was his attitude, from shot one, on his feet and active, his attitude from there was survive, overcome, adapt, and win. That is the mindset of a warrior, ( ok it was just a movie ), the humor, which has been Bruce's mainstay, is a talent I rarely posses in threatening conditions, but I admire those that do have it, I have 1 friend who can do that in any situation, I have only pissed him off twice in 25 years. He got over it quick, both times.
Other movies deserve scrutiny, but I would like the tactical good stuff and the bad, The Patriot , LQ Jones digging out first a lever action, looked like 30 30, and then saying nah, and brought up a BAR, and magazines, Who did not go, " oh hell yes "?
On deadly ground, the coke bottle suppressor, and then the well stocked, hidden armory in his friends house, and the stockpile in the woods, with c4, detonators, grenades etc... and you can't forget R Lee Ermy's role as a merc, Billy Bob Thornton's, " do you think I should have the stock folded in or out, I kinda feel like a Pussy with it out ". 1 movie at a time, but with attitude and tactics in mind.
Heat, is a whole new discussion.
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See, this is why we don't get taken seriously. Steve Urkel was the neighbor, not the son. Harumph. ;D
How do you know?......Carl was a frisky, frisky man.... ;D