The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on May 07, 2009, 09:01:06 PM
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Lou Dobbs is reporting tonight that the 9th circuit gun ruling is being appealed to the Supreme Court. Our side actually is appealing it because they dont like the wording that allows for regulation of gun shows on public property.
As I said in an earlier post.... this may be a BIG nationwide win if SC upholds this..... it would incorporate the 2nd amendment at a national level.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php/topic,6334.msg76830.html#msg76830
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Bho can't change the court that much. I feel good about this.
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The 9th is the most over turned district...
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The 9th is the most over turned district...
I heard somewhere ( think it was Tom Greshams show)
that there was something about the 2nd circuit saying that it was not a state issue or something like that, I don't understand how that works over there
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I heard somewhere ( think it was Tom Greshams show)
that there was something about the 2nd circuit saying that it was not a state issue or something like that, I don't understand how that works over there
The 9th circuit ruled that the 2A is incorporated, meaning that as a guaranteed right under the constitution, the states have to recognize it when they are considering case law or legislation. The 2nd circuit ruled that it was NOT incorporated, so states could interpret or ignore the 2A altogether.
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The 9th circuit ruled that the 2A is incorporated, meaning that as a guaranteed right under the constitution, the states have to recognize it when they are considering case law or legislation. The 2nd circuit ruled that it was NOT incorporated, so states could interpret or ignore the 2A altogether.
Good answer. Just to claify a bit more for Phil, we have dual soveriegnty here in the US. That of the states and that of the federal government. In the early days, the bill of rights was held to be binding on the federal government but not on the states (most of which have their own bills of rights). Starting in the twenties, the Supreme Court started to apply the certain parts of the bill of rights to the the state's (called incorporation). This was done piecemeal, not whole cloth. Until last year the 8th ammendment prohibition on excesive fines and the 2A were the only ones not incorporated. Now after Heller, the 2A is as well, though its still new law so what a state can or can't do is still being worked out. It wil take a while before this is settled.
FQ13
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So, where are we in the courts on this now?
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Good answer. Just to claify a bit more for Phil, we have dual soveriegnty here in the US. That of the states and that of the federal government. In the early days, the bill of rights was held to be binding on the federal government but not on the states (most of which have their own bills of rights). Starting in the twenties, the Supreme Court started to apply the certain parts of the bill of rights to the the state's (called incorporation). This was done piecemeal, not whole cloth. Until last year the 8th ammendment prohibition on excesive fines and the 2A were the only ones not incorporated. Now after Heller, the 2A is as well, though its still new law so what a state can or can't do is still being worked out. It wil take a while before this is settled.
FQ13
I can't believe this got left standing for a month - the 2A is NOT incorporated by Heller. Heller addressed the issue of the anti-gun ownership laws in Washington, DC. This was a special case that laid the foundation for future suits to incorporate, such as the CA suit that the 9th upheld. DC is not even a state and is under the direct control of Congress, with some autonomy granted for day-to-day affairs to a Mayor and City Council.
To answer fuzdaddy, the 9th said it applies, the 2nd and 7th (Chicago, surprise, surprise - NOT!!) Circuits said no it doesn't. Not being a SCOTUS groupie, I am not up on whether any of them have progressed to the point where it has actually been put on the SCOTUS docket for orals and deliberations.
The 9th is reputed to be the most overturned court, but their failure rate is not 100%.
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I can't believe this got left standing for a month - the 2A is NOT incorporated by Heller. Heller addressed the issue of the anti-gun ownership laws in Washington, DC. This was a special case that laid the foundation for future suits to incorporate, such as the CA suit that the 9th upheld. DC is not even a state and is under the direct control of Congress, with some autonomy granted for day-to-day affairs to a Mayor and City Council.
To answer fuzdaddy, the 9th said it applies, the 2nd and 7th (Chicago, surprise, surprise - NOT!!) Circuits said no it doesn't. Not being a SCOTUS groupie, I am not up on whether any of them have progressed to the point where it has actually been put on the SCOTUS docket for orals and deliberations.
The 9th is reputed to be the most overturned court, but their failure rate is not 100%.
You are right Path. I had a brain fart when I wrote that post and forgot that DC is federal. The 9th is the most overturned court, but its not because they are liberal. Witness the ruling in question. They are more overturned because they are the largest circuuit, covering much of the west and the majority of Indian law as well. More cases=more reversals. I think our side were idiots for appealing this, but if it works than I'll have to call them geniuses and apologize again. I will do so gladly and provide free beer in the corner IF the 2A IS incorporated. ;D
FQ13
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Heller determined that the 2A applied to the FEDERAL Govt. (Whether that is a level of "incorporation" or not I don't know )
The Chicago and NY cases will determine if States and cities are bound by that, as they are on all 9 of the other articles in the bill of rights.
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Heller determined that the 2A applied to the FEDERAL Govt. (Whether that is a level of "incorporation" or not I don't know )
The Chicago and NY cases will determine if States and cities are bound by that, as they are on all 9 of the other articles in the bill of rights.
No, its not incorporation. Initially the bill of rights was held to restrict only the feds, as in "Congress shall make no law..." The states, as soveriegn entities, were free to do as they chose. The14th amendment, with its due process clause, let the feds apply the Bill of Rights to the states. They have done so slowly and unevenly. Until Heller, the 8A's prohibition afainst excessive fines and bail, and, oddly enough the 2A were the only "unicorporated" rights. If the court rules that the 2A is unincorporated, eg applies just to the feds, we are screwed on the state level.If they apply the reverse and say that it is, sometime in the next decade I will buy you a beer in Boston, while we are both carrying. ;D
FQ13
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If we are both carrying in Boston and you buy me a beer I will drink it, something I have not done in 15 years !