The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: tfr270 on May 13, 2009, 04:31:54 PM
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OK, heres a scenario that happened to my wife at our home while I was at work. Comments and suggestions are welcome.
She's inside the house in the home office. Our Rhodesian Ridgeback is with her. She hears some rattling outside the front door and the dog alerts and starts growling. She goes to the front door to look out and see what's going on. She see's a Mexican male with a flat of strawberries in his hand facing the side door of the garage. She thinks he's trying to break into the garage and his using his flat of strawberries as a cover for an excuse to be in our yard. She opens the door and tells him to get lost and closes the door. He gets lost. She gives it some time and goes to check the garage door. She rattles the handle and it makes the same sound that alerted her and the dog.
So, a very nice cop came by today with some very good advice on how to harden the home and what to do to react to the situation should it occur again. He advises her to confront someone to let them know that we know they are there. Not sure I like that. I'd rather she call 911 and report it and not confront the guy, and take a safe position in the house until the guy is either gone or the cops arrive.
So, what do you think her best defense would be in this situation. Obviously what occured is a no shoot situation. She has Inferno spray, the shotgun in the bedroom, and her .357 mag if it escalates. Not to mention a protective 100lb male ridgeback.
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OK, heres a scenario that happened to my wife at our home while I was at work. Comments and suggestions are welcome.
She's inside the house in the home office. Our Rhodesian Ridgeback is with her. She hears some rattling outside the front door and the dog alerts and starts growling. She goes to the front door to look out and see what's going on. She see's a Mexican male with a flat of strawberries in his hand facing the side door of the garage. She thinks he's trying to break into the garage and his using his flat of strawberries as a cover for an excuse to be in our yard. She opens the door and tells him to get lost and closes the door. He gets lost. She gives it some time and goes to check the garage door. She rattles the handle and it makes the same sound that alerted her and the dog.
So, a very nice cop came by today with some very good advice on how to harden the home and what to do to react to the situation should it occur again. He advises her to confront someone to let them know that we know they are there. Not sure I like that. I'd rather she call 911 and report it and not confront the guy, and take a safe position in the house until the guy is either gone or the cops arrive.
So, what do you think her best defense would be in this situation. Obviously what occured is a no shoot situation. She has Inferno spray, the shotgun in the bedroom, and her .357 mag if it escalates. Not to mention a protective 100lb male ridgeback.
The big thing I see here is the 'open the door' part. Don't open the door if you don't know who it is. If you want to let them know that you know they are there, yell out really loudly that you don't take solicitations and that you are going to call the police.
Don't give an attacker the advantage by doing part of their job for them.
One possible future solution is an inexpensive intercom system along with a "No Solicitors" sign. You can communicate via the intercom and never have to open the door.
That's just my two pennies in the bottom of the barrel.
I'm really glad it turned out as a 'no harm-no foul' incident and that your wife is safe.
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Tfr,
It sounds like you have MOST of it covered. Get an intercom like Peg says and tell the wife NVER open the door in those situations. Use the intercom to alert 'intruder' that you are aware of them and do not desire whatever they are selling. If they persist inform them (via intercom again) that you are calling 911. (I never let the bad guys know I am armed until I fire)
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Those people selling strawberries might be pot heads looking for some extra cash for drugs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWr4NcRN2Uw
HAHAHA! BEND AND SCOOP! ;D
Really though, the intercom idea is a great one. Hadn't thought about doing that. It would sure beat yelling through closed doors and windows. My wife is rather trusting of people even though she knows not to be. It's hard to overcome the ingrained ideas of neighborly kindness. Just can't do that anymore, so the idea of being able to inform someone to leave without raising your voice is a good one.
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I have the intercom. Make sure the inside system is AWAY from the door. Most people set it up right at the door so you are 'right there' if sh!t starts - NOT good. Put the inside unit across the room (and place a gun near it).
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I have the intercom. Make sure the inside system is AWAY from the door. Most people set it up right at the door so you are 'right there' if sh!t starts - NOT good. Put the inside unit across the room (and place a gun near it).
I was thinking the same thing. It would be like standing at the door starring out the peephole while talking to whoever it is on the other side.
I think I may have to take the intercom idea a step further. Could easily place a small video display next to it so you could see who you were talking too without being in the line of fire should something go down. As cheap as video surveillance has gotten, it wouldn't be a large hit in the wallet either. Of course I am sure they make an all-in-one system already, one that isn't outrageously expensive. I need to stop typing and start searching.
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The have one also that starts recording video of the front stoop as soon as the door bell is pressed..... probably could set it up to start recording once intercom is activated also........
..... cant wait to hear from The Pincus and the other Pros on this topic as well.
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If you were into that sort of thing you could cobble together something triggered by motion like they do with yard lights.
If you DO go with a video system be sure to put something in the shot that will give an indication of how tall the person is.
Did you ever notice in Convenience stores, the scale running up the door casing, it's for the security camera.
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Here are some basic units, just to get an idea of what's out there. They have some cool stuff out now in the home security business.
http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductList.asp?p=2_1_1_1_0_0_223
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Sweet. All good ideas. I have two arbors coming into the courtyard that I plan on installing gates in. What I'd like to do is install some kind of electronic eye that rings a bell in the house at these arbors. Then we can install the camera and intercom system as well so we can see and talk to someone.
It sucks being on a corner lot. Didn't think about it when I bought the place. Easy access from the front and the side street with a main street a half block over for an escape for the bad guy.
So, I'm replacing the old double front door with a new, heavier door. I'll be gating the arbors and doing the electronics as well. If they manage to get past that and don't heed the warnings then it's the dog, the inferno spray and the hardware if needed. Darn...this used to be a great neighborhood that we didn't have to think of these things. C'mon lottery!
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An interestings scenario. I agree that opening the door was not the best move. However, I don't think the electronic fortress of doom is necessary either. If I don't want to answer the door, I just don't. If the guy starts jiggling locks, I'll have a glock in one hand, and my cell in the other. Step one call the cops if he persists. Step two, withdraw to a defensible position if he appears to gain access. I'm all in favor of good locks and an alarm. I particularly like the beeper that alerts if a door or window is opened to wake you up. I'm not sure that cameras and intercoms are required. If you know the guy is there, well, thats what the gun and phone are for, yes?
FQ13
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Hell, just send the dog to the door, especially if it barks. Then call the dog, something innocuous that the dog won't understand, like "Fido - HOLD!" which communicates to the BG at the door (a) you're home, and (b) you have a really big dog. Best anti-burglar tool their is. Minorities especially don't like them. Then tell the BG to leave and you're calling the police - and then do it.
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An interestings scenario. I agree that opening the door was not the best move. However, I don't think the electronic fortress of doom is necessary either. If I don't want to answer the door, I just don't. If the guy starts jiggling locks, I'll have a glock in one hand, and my cell in the other. Step one call the cops if he persists. Step two, withdraw to a defensible position if he appears to gain access. I'm all in favor of good locks and an alarm. I particularly like the beeper that alerts if a door or window is opened to wake you up. I'm not sure that cameras and intercoms are required. If you know the guy is there, well, thats what the gun and phone are for, yes?
FQ13
Great post....... Can we get this guy into the Rangers already!
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Hell, just send the dog to the door, especially if it barks. Then call the dog, something innocuous that the dog won't understand, like "Fido - HOLD!" which communicates to the BG at the door (a) you're home, and (b) you have a really big dog. Best anti-burglar tool their is. Minorities especially don't like them. Then tell the BG to leave and you're calling the police - and then do it.
100# R. Ridgeback. One bad ass dog!!
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Sweet. All good ideas. I have two arbors coming into the courtyard that I plan on installing gates in. What I'd like to do is install some kind of electronic eye that rings a bell in the house at these arbors. Then we can install the camera and intercom system as well so we can see and talk to someone.
It sucks being on a corner lot. Didn't think about it when I bought the place. Easy access from the front and the side street with a main street a half block over for an escape for the bad guy.
So, I'm replacing the old double front door with a new, heavier door. I'll be gating the arbors and doing the electronics as well. If they manage to get past that and don't heed the warnings then it's the dog, the inferno spray and the hardware if needed. Darn...this used to be a great neighborhood that we didn't have to think of these things. C'mon lottery!
A friend has one of these with all four sensors at the corners of his property gates.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/chamberlain-wireless-perimeter-alarm.aspx?a=219390
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My house is all brick with steel doors, steel frame double pane windows, has a top notch secutity system with battery back-up and 3G cellular dial out and we have a 120 pound big bad mutt and a 68 pound boxer (the boxer already took on a BG who reached into my wife's car when she was paying for gas....BG ended up at my hospital emergency dept. later that day).
Despite all of this, I really like the idea of an intercom and a video system. I also appreciated the suggestion from Haz to set the intercom up away from the door and with a handgun nearby.
It may sound a little paranoid, with all of our protection and with both my wife and myself having CHLs and being trained and shooting regularly, but I really like the idea of my wife not having to open the door until she is sure that it is safe.
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'll be shopping for and intercom and for a video system.
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So far I've put in the gates to the courtyard and installed motion sensors. The new door should be here any day now. Put a No Solicters sign on the gate which the Jehovah's Witness promptly ignored...I guess they don't think what they do is soliciting.
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So far I've put in the gates to the courtyard and installed motion sensors. The new door should be here any day now. Put a No Solicters sign on the gate which the Jehovah's Witness promptly ignored...I guess they don't think what they do is soliciting.
Next time they show up, open the door with the shot gun visible resting against the wall. Maybe they will think about how closley they need to witness Jehovah and leave the rest of us alone. ;D
FQ13
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Next time they show up, open the door with the shot gun visible resting against the wall. Maybe they will think about how closley they need to witness Jehovah and leave the rest of us alone. ;D
FQ13
My Dad used to have a pond on his place in Maine 1 1/2 miles up a dirt road, before he moved to Idaho. 2 JW women showed up one day while he was swimming so he came out the pond bare ass, but pleasant as could be, "Hi, how can I help you ? " etc. They never came back ;D
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My Dad used to have a pond on his place in Maine 1 1/2 miles up a dirt road, before he moved to Idaho. 2 JW women showed up one day while he was swimming so he came out the pond bare ass, but pleasant as could be, "Hi, how can I help you ? " etc. They never came back ;D
Worked graveyard shift for years.
Got woke up one afternoon and answered the door in my underwear with a 1911 in my hand and they never came knockin' again.
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Worked graveyard shift for years.
Got woke up one afternoon and answered the door in my underwear with a 1911 in my hand and they never came knockin' again.
I'm just guessin the gun isn't why they never came back. ;D
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I'm just guessin the gun isn't why they never came back. ;D
"Why Junkie, whatevah do you mean?"
;D
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Someone jiggling the doorknob can only mean one thing - they're trying to get in. My mother had this happen in the 60's, while I was still in the crib. Our backyard fence was up against a high traffic street. Someone came over the wall and preceded to try and get the laundry room door open, which was wood with a curtained window. She could see his backlit silhouette through the curtain. My mother armed herself with the gun that she was familiar with, a bolt action .22. She yelled through the door that she was armed and demanded that this guy leave at once. He kept pulling at the door and ordered her to open up. She cycled the bolt, making as much noise as she possibly could. The guy did a "feet, don't fail me now" and vaulted the back wall in a single jump. Things could have been really bad, if she's opened the door.
We recently had someone jiggle our doorknob at 2:00 AM. I stuck a full paddle holster on my pj's, and grabbed the 12 GA. My wife was armed and manned the cell phone. I crept through the house and checked the doors, before turning on any lights, so as not to let someone outside see me before knowing that the doors were still secure. Then we called police, in case any neighbors might have the same occurrence. I didn't go outside - no reason to. Don't open the door.
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100# R. Ridgeback. One bad ass dog!!
Agreed. Send the Ridgeback out the door and have him haggle over the price of the strawberries!
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who buys strawberry's from a mexican on your doorstep anyway.
call me paranoid but i always point my trusty sig at the guy through the door whenever it is a stranger.
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who buys strawberry's from a mexican on your doorstep anyway.
call me paranoid but i always point my trusty sig at the guy through the door whenever it is a stranger.
I once had a knock on the side door of the house, a door that nobody ever, ever used. I grabbed my .357 out of the couch cushions and held it to the back of the door when I answered. The first words out of the guys mouth were,"do you have a gun". I chuckled to myself and thought, "yeah, dumbass, and it's pointing right at you." He went on to explain that he hit a deer and it was still alive and stuck in the wheelwell of his car. He wanted someone to come shoot it.
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I once had a knock on the side door of the house, a door that nobody ever, ever used. I grabbed my .357 out of the couch cushions and held it to the back of the door when I answered. The first words out of the guys mouth were,"do you have a gun". I chuckled to myself and thought, "yeah, dumbass, and it's pointing right at you." He went on to explain that he hit a deer and it was still alive and stuck in the wheelwell of his car. He wanted someone to come shoot it.
THAT is an odd one. What did you do? Just curious because I would be sympathetic to the guy (and the deer) yet its also a great ploy to get you out of the house and determine if you are armed. You don't go, you're a selfish jerk, you do, and you're a sucker. Sort of like voting D or R in Presidential elections. What call did you make?
FQ13
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THAT is an odd one. What did you do? Just curious because I would be sympathetic to the guy (and the deer) yet its also a great ploy to get you out of the house and determine if you are armed. You don't go, you're a selfish jerk, you do, and you're a sucker. Sort of like voting D or R in Presidential elections. What call did you make?
FQ13
Not to mention that if there is a deer, some of the more aggressive G&F types will tap you for hunting out of season! Happened in SD a few years back.
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THAT is an odd one. What did you do? Just curious because I would be sympathetic to the guy (and the deer) yet its also a great ploy to get you out of the house and determine if you are armed. You don't go, you're a selfish jerk, you do, and you're a sucker. Sort of like voting D or R in Presidential elections. What call did you make?
FQ13
I could see the car and deer on the road. I told the guy I would be down to help. Stuffed the gun in my pants and nobody ever knew I had one. The deer died right after I got there. I didn't want to shoot it with traffic going by, people standing around, and the fact that it was stuck in the car. I've had mixed reports on how the game commision reacts to killing injured animals. If it was me with no witnesses, no question about what I would do.
I told the guy later that he needs a better way to introduce himself. ::)
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Here's one that happened at my place yesterday just about at dusk.
My wife was on the front porch in a rocking chair talking on the phone to her sister. A pickup pulled about halfway up our main driveway and stopped about a 100' from the house. A "scraggly-lookin' guy" (wife's description) gets out and asks if he can 'borrow some gas'. She told him we didn't have any (not a lie, as we just used the last of it to top off the ATV....not that we owed him an explanation).
After she tells him we didn't have any, he asks her if her husband is home (this is the part that got me). She said yes, let me get him. And, as she backs in through the front door, she calls out to me (I was down in the Den, but could see her at the door) the guy gets in the truck and backs out and leaves.
I asked her questions about his appearance and how he acted. She said he acted 'funny....nervous'.
I sat out on the porch for a while and could hear something going on down the road, but out of sight. I got to wondering why he needed gas if he was able to drive off in his truck. I got on our golf cart (very quiet engine) and rode out to the edge of the property so that I could see down the road. It was then that I saw a second vehicle about a 1/4 mile away that was 'apparently disabled' and they were messing around with it. Finally all of the people (3 or 4, couldn't tell from the distance and poor light conditions) got into the guy's truck and left, leaving the second truck sitting in a neighbors driveway.
Needless to say, my hopeless insomnia was not aided by the event, and not much sleeping was done (looking out at every sound).
I'll be even more wary than normal (even for me) for a good while, since home invasion is one of the top crimes in our region.
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Here's one that happened at my place yesterday just about at dusk.
My wife was on the front porch in a rocking chair talking on the phone to her sister. A pickup pulled about halfway up our main driveway and stopped about a 100' from the house. A "scraggly-lookin' guy" (wife's description) gets out and asks if he can 'borrow some gas'. She told him we didn't have any (not a lie, as we just used the last of it to top off the ATV....not that we owed him an explanation).
After she tells him we didn't have any, he asks her if her husband is home (this is the part that got me). She said yes, let me get him. And, as she backs in through the front door, she calls out to me (I was down in the Den, but could see her at the door) the guy gets in the truck and backs out and leaves.
I asked her questions about his appearance and how he acted. She said he acted 'funny....nervous'.
I sat out on the porch for a while and could hear something going on down the road, but out of sight. I got to wondering why he needed gas if he was able to drive off in his truck. I got on our golf cart (very quiet engine) and rode out to the edge of the property so that I could see down the road. It was then that I saw a second vehicle about a 1/4 mile away that was 'apparently disabled' and they were messing around with it. Finally all of the people (3 or 4, couldn't tell from the distance and poor light conditions) got into the guy's truck and left, leaving the second truck sitting in a neighbors driveway.
Needless to say, my hopeless insomnia was not aided by the event, and not much sleeping was done (looking out at every sound).
I'll be even more wary than normal (even for me) for a good while, since home invasion is one of the top crimes in our region.
My reccomendation is tocall thes heriff and tell them exactly what you said here. One, they may be wanted for something.
Two, if they're not, your ass is covered if they they pay a 3am visit.After all, the SD works for you and you might as well get your moneys worth.
FQ13
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My reccomendation is tocall thes heriff and tell them exactly what you said here. One, they may be wanted for something.
Two, if they're not, your ass is covered if they they pay a 3am visit.After all, the SD works for you and you might as well get your moneys worth.
FQ13
I should have put it in the previous post:
I talked to a couple of friends that are "heriff" deputies ( ;D ;D ) and they noted it in their log book, and also said they would make a few extra rounds out in our area.
You make a good point ther, FQ........ things that ordinarily would be something that we would brush off needs to be scrutinized more closely than it did years ago. To many things have changed nowadays to just forget about it.
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garage doors are always a weak point. depending on whats there(IE i need a pic), I can give you several options on securing the door.
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garage doors are always a weak point. depending on whats there(IE i need a pic), I can give you several options on securing the door.
Maybe you could throw out a few general examples TAB, kind of like you did a while back on house doors.
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Maybe you could throw out a few general examples TAB, kind of like you did a while back on house doors.
I agree with Tom here. I am getting to the point where I need to replace mine as it goes off the track about 2/3 of the way up. There is nothing wrong with the track, motor or door, I just put it down to age (18 years and it owes me nothing). If I replace it I do want to put sercurity/storm resistance high on the list. Any advice would be appreciatd.
Thanks
FQ13
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My doors are all good now. Replaced the flimsy front door set with a set of heavy fir doors. The garage side door was already a steel door and the roll up is a new steel door as well. It will take a pretty determined bad guy to get it. I've also lit the perimeter up with new solar powered motion sensor lights, and so have my neighbors. The tweakers across the street moved on....I think the constant visits from code enforcement and PD (gee, I wonder who was calling them?) wore them down. Got the neighbors semi-organized for a watch. Got the gates up in the courtyard and we let the Ridgeback patrol out there...well, sleep in the sun anyway...but his mere presence gives people pause when they see him. They don't want to wake the sleeping giant. I think the place looks like a harder target now.
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. I think the place looks like a harder target now.
Thats the key. Crooks are by nature lazy. Why bother with the place with the lights, the alarm signs and the dog when you can go down the block and find the same type house that doesn't have those?
FQ13