The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: rojawe on May 13, 2009, 06:44:56 PM
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Don't Waste Money on the Elderly?
The video below features Professor Stuart Altman of Brandeis University speaking before the Senate Finance Committee hearing on health-care reform. Courtesy of Hot Air. During the hearing, Brandeis says:
Remember, our population is aging. And with the very, very elderly, the costs go down, so that percentage should be falling, and it’s not. Second, the cost of care is growing by so much, so at the same percentage, it’s worth a lot more. So let’s go back to the issue of comparative effectiveness, which we’re supporting. That’s where that can have a big impact. It’s not only there, but that’s where the waste is. That’s where people are using technologies that really either don’t work at all or keep people alive for for very limited [time] and [at] very high cost.
Hospice is one option, but we do need take account of the cost — you know, I hate to say it, the cost-benefit of some of the things we do. And either we can do it directly, or we can do it by bundling the payments and let the delivery system deal with it. So it’s a combination of the delivery system dealing with it, or, and/or providing more information for people to make the right decisions, both for themselves and for the care.
This is a sentiment heard more and more these days - because the elderly are such a drain on society we should just come up with a way to better manage the growing elderly segment of society. I have blogged about this subject before here, noting the statements of Baroness Warnock in Britain who believes that people should soon be "licensed to put others down" if they are unable to look after themselves. Why should the government waste money on the elderly (or the terminally ill or senile) who won't live for very long anyway. Those resources could be better spent on other younger, more deserving people, right?
:'(
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As a tangent to this, I got this in an email from "His Majesty's" royal underlings today on health care reform.....
May be of interest, as I said, if only as a tangent to the OP.....
The White House,
Washington
Good afternoon,
You are receiving this email because you signed up at WhiteHouse.gov. My staff and I plan to use these messages as a way to directly communicate about important issues and opportunities, and today I have some encouraging updates about health care reform.
The Vice President and I just met with leaders from the House of Representatives and received their commitment to pass a comprehensive health care reform bill by July 31.
We also have an unprecedented commitment from health care industry leaders, many of whom opposed health reform in the past. Monday, I met with some of these health care stakeholders, and they pledged to do their part to reduce the health care spending growth rate, saving more than two trillion dollars over the next ten years -- around $2,500 for each American family. Then on Tuesday, leaders from some of America's top companies came to the White House to showcase innovative ways to reduce health care costs by improving the health of their workers.
Now the House and Senate are beginning a critical debate that will determine the health of our nation's economy and its families. This process should be transparent and inclusive and its product must drive down costs, assure quality and affordable health care for everyone, and guarantee all of us a choice of doctors and plans.
Reforming health care should also involve you. Think of other people who may want to stay up to date on health care reform and other national issues and tell them to join us here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/EmailUpdates
Health care reform can't come soon enough. We spend more on health care than any country, but families continue to struggle with skyrocketing premiums and nearly 46 million are without insurance entirely. It is a priority for the American people and a pillar of the new foundation we are seeking to build for our economy.
We'll continue to keep you posted about this and other important issues.
Thank you,
Barack Obama
P.S. If you'd like to get more in-depth information about health reform and how you can participate, be sure to visit http://www.HealthReform.gov.
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And this is surprising why ? Socialized medicine is a total clusterf#@k in every other country it's been tried in why think it will be any different here ?
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I'm all for the 60's hippies not getting healthcare. We can tell them it's just retro-active abortion. ;D
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First you abort the unborn, then you kill the elderly and finally you turn on the handicapped in the name of saving money! The sad thing about care for the elderly is that it may not improve the quality of their lives but just prolong it and I could not refuse them the treatments knowing it would lead to their deaths. Many of the expenses for medical care are absolutely absurd like requiring an $800 ambulance charge each way from a nursing home to a dentist. There are many more like charging for treatment never performed or unnecessary procedures.
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First you abort the unborn, then you kill the elderly and finally you turn on the handicapped in the name of saving money! The sad thing about care for the elderly is that it may not improve the quality of their lives but just prolong it and I could not refuse them the treatments knowing it would lead to their deaths. Many of the expenses for medical care are absolutely absurd like requiring an $800 ambulance charge each way from a nursing home to a dentist. There are many more like charging for treatment never performed or unnecessary procedures.
My old man gave me a great piece of advise, "never forget the doctors work to make money, its a meat market out there, and we're dinner."
As much as I trust a doctor's opinion, I don't trust their intentions.
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What a crock of baloney!! The elderly are one of the greatest resources this counrty has. Tis a very slippery slope we are on.
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Remember "Soylent Green" and "Logans Run" ?
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Tombogan ya stole my thunder.
"Soylent Green is people!"
Sadly enough, At work I talked with a guy who proposed making biodiesel from the elderly and calling it "soylent fuel" :-X
Hopefully someone on the hill doesn't come up with the same idea
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Government run health care sucks.
It darn near killed my daughter and her son by delaying a doctor visiting her in child birth. The baby was breach and she needed a c-section but the government midwife delayed for two days before calling a surgeon because of her protocols. My son in law sort of jacked the midwife up by the stacking swivel to get her to call a real doctor.
Government run health care is killing her father in law by denying him the by pass surgery he needs because he is now 80. His doctors told him he needed it five years ago and put him on the wait list. Now, he is too old. What a crock.
Where is this gulag you say? England.
After that clusterf%&@ with England's national health care, my daughter told her husband that if he expected to have any more children they were leaving England for the US. They did and I have another grandson and did not almost lose my daughter in the process.
And BHO wants us to accept that crap? Who is he being led by? Dr Mengle? I bet the political class will not be subjected to what we will.
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Government run health care sucks.
It darn near killed my daughter and her son by delaying a doctor visiting her in child birth. The baby was breach and she needed a c-section but the government midwife delayed for two days before calling a surgeon because of her protocols. My son in law sort of jacked the midwife up by the stacking swivel to get her to call a real doctor.
Government run health care is killing her father in law by denying him the by pass surgery he needs because he is now 80. His doctors told him he needed it five years ago and put him on the wait list. Now, he is too old. What a crock.
Where is this gulag you say? England.
After that clusterf%&@ with England's national health care, my daughter told her husband that if he expected to have any more children they were leaving England for the US. They did and I have another grandson and did not almost lose my daughter in the process.
And BHO wants us to accept that crap? Who is he being led by? Dr Mengle? I bet the political class will not be subjected to what we will.
Bill, the political class is NEVER subjected to that which the people who pay the bills are subjected. Obama is being led by George Soros, moveon.org, Bill Ayers, the european community, etc.........the same people he's ALWAYS been led by.
I firmly believe that the motto of this President should be changed from "yes we can", to "if it ain't broke, give us a shot at it".
This once-great country is going to hell in a handbasket and it royally PISSES ME OFF!!!
Ok, Tom, deep breaths now........................
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Simple solution, Breath, relax, Aim, Squeeze, Repeat, 545 times.
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Simple solution, Breath, relax, Aim, Squeeze, Repeat, 545 times.
You forgot the cabinet secretaries and at least a few governors Thomas!
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You forgot the cabinet secretaries and at least a few governors Thomas!
Not to mention Judges, State legislators, Mayors, city councilors, Media talking a$$e$ I mean heads, and College Professors
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Simple solution, Breath, relax, Aim, Squeeze, Repeat, 545 times.
I believe the pain would subside slightly with each bang.
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With government run healthcare I think it would be detrimental to finding quality healthcare professionals. Some of these professionals sacrifice their lives in years of training and college to kep up and be informed and eventually specialize in their respective fields. Competition is good for the whole of society. If everything was on a even playing field it would render the drive towards success and prestige into the ground. Just my two bits.
As for the elderly. I hate seeing my grandmother spend her life savings paying well over $2,000 a month for her assisted living apartment. It seems as some of these places get a kick out of draining the bank accounts fo the elderly. Modern day vampires!!!
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With government run healthcare I think it would be detrimental to finding quality healthcare professionals. Some of these professionals sacrifice their lives in years of training and college to kep up and be informed and eventually specialize in their respective fields. Competition is good for the whole of society. If everything was on a even playing field it would render the drive towards success and prestige into the ground. Just my two bits.
As for the elderly. I hate seeing my grandmother spend her life savings paying well over $2,000 a month for her assisted living apartment. It seems as some of these places get a kick out of draining the bank accounts fo the elderly. Modern day vampires!!!
That, sir, is an insult to vampires. ;)
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So many great posts to lead in on....it wouldn't be fair to quote anything less than all of them. When the government, and insurance, gets into something and the people are insulated from the pain, the resultant provider is insulated from the complaints. So, we should all complain when we go to the doctor, hospital, clinic, etc.
I went from 1989 until 2005 with one stinking weekend when I didn't owe a doctor, hospital, lab or something else medical. I lost a baby, had two sick boys after that, then my wife ended up on a heart transplant list for about 10 years. I should have paid something...and I did. The stinking insurances skated with "reasonable and customary only" payments and I was holding the bag, but I accepted the responsiblity and worked it out.
I think doctors should be paid, and paid well for good work. I don't mind paying Mercedes wages for my healthcare...if that's what it takes to keep knotheads out and bring in better qualified people who want to make a better life for themselves, I'm all for it. HOWEVER, realize that the government has set payments less than what private citizens pay so, if the payment is less than the cost YOU get to make up the difference. Realizing that, I once asked a doctor if he would split the difference on that part and I'd pay my end at Mercedes wages and the deadbeats bill at Ford wages...he never thought about it that way...done deal.
So, we have judges that won't work and judge and let these frivolous lawsuits go through...cost of insurance is through the roof and, since doctors get their money from the people they work for, the patients, the cost to the patient goes up....money does not exist in a doctor's pocket by virtue of degree, it comes from his work...or should. Then the insurance companies do a dodge and get out of paying and make their submissions so complex that doctors hire staff and since doctors get their money from the people they work for, the patients, who pays for this again and again. Also, doctors aren't the best business minds in the world...a friend of mine's son became a doctor...wanted his group to buy their own MRI...it was only XXXX dollars...what he didn't realize...or think about...is that they had to add to that amount the cost of new facilities and staff to the cost and it had to generate $2500 a week in business for it to break even..thank goodness his dad was an engineer and explained it to him....sometimes you just have to pay for peoples mistakes...but business course requirements would be good for doctors.
Then we have the accountants...MBAs....managers....you know..the ones you never see and since doctors get their money from the people they work for, the patients pay for the overhead....that would be YOU. I have no doubt that this is where the $10 diaper and the $10 child's Tylenol I got charged for in the 90's came from....so we brought our own and saved a ton.
We can only get out of this if we the people say no to a lot of the charges. Doctors need nurses, but of course since doctors get their money from the people they work for, the patients, that would be YOU, get to pay for the nurses in the bill also. Nurses can save you money, by letting the doctor do the high-dollar stuff.
But then....here comes the government. I've a friend who's wife is a doctor...the bureaucrat says med has to be prescribed or no service was done...she refuses to prescribe medicine when not needed...guess what...government stiffs them for $150k. Who pays for the government bureacrat....well, since doctors get their money from the people they work for, the patients, that would be YOU.
Want to know a dirtier secret about the government...your US Government....Congress knows there is more work going on than they have made funds available for under the free giveways...doctors have to provide the service....government uses some entity to refuse charges...doctors have to hassle with the entity (insurance company reasonable and customary bureaucrat) to get paid...in doing so they don't work and generate income. Since a doctor needs to have income and since doctors get their money from the people they work for, the patients, YOU get to pay more. IN THIS INSTANCE IT'S A KNOWN SIN BY CONGRESS, DECREE WORK WITHOUT DECREEING THE MONEY...THAT MAKES IT A TAX ON THE PEOPLE WHO PAY THEIR BILLS EITHER DIRECTLY, THROUGH INSURANCE OR BOTH.
I forgot one other blessing of our government...private practice doctors get the government payments reduced. If they work for a teaching institution....then they get the full amount plus. So...there is the carrot leading the doctors to socialism....didn't know that one either, did you?
I JUST CAN'T WAIT FOR THAT SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE....OH WAIT...IT'S HERE NOW...JUST NOT 100%...WON'T THAT BE A BLESSING WHEN WE ALL HAVE TO HAVE IT.
OH yeah, one other thing...you may not know...elderly can only have two insurances...one government and one other...those cancer policies, etc...make them lawbreakers and/or felons....good thing they don't enforce that law, eh?
OH and I forgot, Bill Clinton set limits on the number of med school students in government supported (that would be all of them, right) colleges and universities. Supply was made artificially low which creates a demand that is high in comparison and the price goes up...it doesn't matter whether it's socialism, communism or capitalism....it's just the socialist and communist masters get the very good and highly compensated doctors and the peons get the guys who graduated last in their class.
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Then the insurance companies do a dodge and get out of paying and make their submissions so complex that doctors hire staff and since doctors get their money from the people they work for, the patients, who pays for this again and again.
Great post Rastus...I too have been through similar circumstances though not with your terrible loss of a child.
Little story though. There once was a doctor in RI, who decided that it would be cheaper to deal in cash with her patients than have to hire two people to process the paper work for the office, her payroll, her insurance claims, etc....
She managed to keep a viable practice dealing with her long list of established patients on a cash deal, 40 bucks for any appointment. No co-pay, no hassles, no paperwork, NO PROBLEMS. Any lab work was up to the patients to tend too and she would see people, prescribe medicine and do her doctoring the old fashioned way sometimes taking goods rather than cash for services rendered.
It took the insurance companies about one year to put that doctor out of business! They lobbied against her, refused to reimburse her patients for the 40 bucks even though it's perfectly legal to process your own paperwork and eventually got her to quit. Just closed her down and she basically said f*@# you and retired.
Be proactive as Rastus suggests and be your own advocate in your medical care. I've got a disabled wife, I have little choice in the matter but we save by reading everything, bills, reimbursements, making deals with the doctors, doing our own research and always questioning everything we don't understand.
I wont buy what the government is selling and I live in the only state where it is LAW that you must have health insurance!