The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: garand4life on May 19, 2009, 12:55:38 PM

Title: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: garand4life on May 19, 2009, 12:55:38 PM
It was brought to my attention over the weekend that a situation had been growing at the local high school that my 15 yr old sister attends. According to both the parents involved and the school administration a female student who has a history of violence and severe anger issues made a statement on multiple occasions that she would bring a gun to school all while detailing how she would send certain students by name home in body bags. In response the school administration suspended her for 7 days and she was required to attend counseling, she is now back in this school with no restrictions. All because she says she is getting help!  Let me ask this question... Why is this kid who has a history of violence not in jail or at minimum expelled. I'm sorry but I grew up in south Denver during Columbine where kids with similar issues killed over a dozen students and now I live within driving distance of VT where I know friends who graduated the year before the attack. So my outlook is that if you don't take the threat seriously you are allowing the potential murder of students and your inaction should be cause for your removal from the school administration. Sorry, I just needed to vent. I have a 15 yr old sister in this school and I can not tolerate the games this school is playing with her safety.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: ericire12 on May 19, 2009, 01:04:34 PM
Go to your local news and get them to do a story on it. Then you will see school administrators get a little more serious
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: Pathfinder on May 19, 2009, 01:46:49 PM
Amazing - draw a picture of planes strafing a village, right out of the nightly news - and you will get expelled.

This trouble waiting to happen gets let back in?

Get the parents together, pull your kids until this is dealt with. Also find a lawyer to look into filing an injunction against the school and the troublemaker.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 19, 2009, 02:08:36 PM
It does seem that at a minimum she should have been sent for a serious psych eval, not a few sessions with Dr. Feelgood. It also seems like there was probale cause for a search warrant for her home and computer, and to get social services to take a good hard look at the home situation, before any decisions were made. Most districts have an alternative school for problem students. She would seem to be a prime candidate.
FQ13
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 19, 2009, 02:09:17 PM
And then when something like Columbine or VT happens they blame it on the guns.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: garand4life on May 19, 2009, 02:27:35 PM
It does seem that at a minimum she should have been sent for a serious psych eval, not a few sessions with Dr. Feelgood. It also seems like there was probale cause for a search warrant for her home and computer, and to get social services to take a good hard look at the home situation, before any decisions were made. Most districts have an alternative school for problem students. She would seem to be a prime candidate.
FQ13
That's what we thought would happen. But the vice principal made this decision without even consulting the principal or the superintendent. Of course the P C mafia here is telling me I'm in the wrong. Of course my parents are useless in all of this. They won't do anything and I've been told not to rock the boat or else.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: Hazcat on May 19, 2009, 02:33:23 PM
You need to talk to your sis about 'tactical' situations.  Tell her 'the hell with friends', dive out the window (if possible), if the teacher is saying something stupid like 'just sit still' tell her to disregard and get out! 

If you have the cash maybe buy her one of those bullet proof back packs.

Just tossin out some ideas here.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: garand4life on May 19, 2009, 02:37:28 PM
Do you think Gunsite teaches unarmed self defense to 15 year olds?  I wish I could send her to on of the big training units to learn the basics of active shooter defense.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: shooter32 on May 19, 2009, 02:46:58 PM
Go to your local news and get them to do a story on it. Then you will see school administrators get a little more serious



To hell with rocking the boat, tip the mother over.

I would try and do something.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: Timothy on May 19, 2009, 02:51:04 PM
Give us a link to your local newspapers email and we'll start rocking the boat for you.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: MikeBjerum on May 19, 2009, 03:33:26 PM
If you or I said stuff like this we would be in jail for making terroristic threats.  We would not be allowed out under any situation until we had cleared phychological testing, and even then we would be charged, tried and probably in a State Hospital for a while.

Unless you blow the whistle today we will be reading about another mass shooting and that the school knew about the problem.  This will be followed by the wringing of hands and say "oh my ... those evil guns ... we just can't do anything until we get rid of the guns."

Stand on the steps of every media outlet and cry for justice.  Scream until you lose your voice and then spray paint it on their walls until they take up the push for action!
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 19, 2009, 03:40:44 PM
I wouldn't go that far. This might be just a cry for help from a troubled kid, like cutting yourself, or making a lame suicide attempt. The thing is, no one will ever know unless they investigate. This just has preventable tragedy written all over it. Either  a school shooting that could have been avoided, or at least a troubled kid that doesn't get the help she obviously needs, while she's under 18 and can be made to accept it. Either way, I think a bit of boat rocking is in order.
FQ13
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: MikeBjerum on May 19, 2009, 03:58:02 PM
I wouldn't go that far. This might be just a cry for help from a troubled kid, like cutting yourself, or making a lame suicide attempt. The thing is, no one will ever know unless they investigate. This just has preventable tragedy written all over it. Either  a school shooting that could have been avoided, or at least a troubled kid that doesn't get the help she obviously needs, while she's under 18 and can be made to accept it. Either way, I think a bit of boat rocking is in order.
FQ13

FQ,

I've read too many reports of kids "crying for help" and going out and harming themselves and others.  We need to protect both this young person and those around her!  You don't help by "mainstreaming."
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: long762range on May 19, 2009, 03:59:23 PM
I taught in public school for 15 years.  The one conclusion I came away with is the most school administrators are not very bright.  They see their primary job is limiting anything that would cause trouble for themselves.  They would say that the threatener was treated as she should be according to district policy.  They honestly believe that if this incident is swept under the rug then all is well. If she does do violence they will say that their hands were tied, she was removed for an appropriate amount of time under federal guidelines, and she was getting help for her anger issues.

They have no real concept of security.  They just want to make problems go away.  

I would remove any child of mine from that school.  Your parents need to consider doing the same.  Private school is expensive but the education, and the safety in a private school is vastly superior to public school.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: cooptire on May 19, 2009, 04:18:32 PM
I have to agree with Tim, give us some more info and I'm sure there are several of us who would be happy to "rock the boat" a little.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: PegLeg45 on May 19, 2009, 04:57:13 PM
I have to agree with Tim, give us some more info and I'm sure there are several of us who would be happy to "rock the boat" a little.


+1



There is a fine line when dealing with things such as this.

One extreme, the school board goes overboard, like near me when the class Valedictorian gets expelled for the rest of the year for a steak knife left in the back of his truck after a camping trip.

The other side of the coin is a school system, like the one in the OP, unwilling to assess and properly heed a serious threat. Ultimately, to the potential harm to both students and staff.
Chilling.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: twyacht on May 19, 2009, 06:15:43 PM
School admin. is totally "reactionary", not into preventative action.  The mindset that a 7 day vacation, will "fix" the problem is an outdated methodology from a former generation or two.

We used to just beat each other up after school, and when it was over, it was over. When a fight did break out ON school grounds, it was never about going home getting a gun and all that...

Times have changed, for the worse I'm afraid, and serious, relentless, consistent, badgering of school admin. and what is the school doing about it, in accord with all the previous posts is good advice.

Too many stories like this can lead to a tragic ending. Where's ROTC, or auto shop when you need it?
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: deepwater on May 19, 2009, 07:12:54 PM
when I arrived home two weeks ago I found out that two of the teachers at my sons school were ex-terrorists. the parents of ALL the children showed up at the school to raise hell. that's a lot of people. I think the difference is that these people were touched personally by the terrorists in the 80's and the folks at your sister's school have probably never had to deal with 'tragedies' worse than a car wreck. certainly not enough for them to know what the potential for disaster is if they take no action. good luck, and hope it all turns out well. as said earlier, if you give more info we can really make some noise and make sure somebody pays attention
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: Rastus on May 19, 2009, 07:59:49 PM
It was brought to my attention over the weekend that a situation had been growing at the local high school that my 15 yr old sister attends. According to both the parents involved and the school administration a female student who has a history of violence and severe anger issues made a statement on multiple occasions that she would bring a gun to school all while detailing how she would send certain students by name home in body bags. In response the school administration suspended her for 7 days and she was required to attend counseling, she is now back in this school with no restrictions..........

Doesn't sound like a kid looking for attention that can be "blown off" and forgotten.


I taught in public school for 15 years.  The one conclusion I came away with is the most school administrators are not very bright.  They see their primary job is limiting anything that would cause trouble for themselves.  They would say that the threatener was treated as she should be according to district policy.  They honestly believe that if this incident is swept under the rug then all is well. If she does do violence they will say that their hands were tied, she was removed for an appropriate amount of time under federal guidelines, and she was getting help for her anger issues.

They have no real concept of security.  They just want to make problems go away.  
....................

This says it all.  Totally honest, my hat is off to you for telling the truth.


Now, all of the above being said, your parents or you should loom as a larger problem to the school staff than their perception (misperception perhaps) of the threat they want to sweep under the rug (that tells you they aren't truly serious).  If you feel like your sister must be made safe the child must be removed from the school for at least a short time.  Otherwise and in addition the school administration should be put on notice.

Get a lawyer....or get support.  School personnel think they can hide behind rules and regs, i.e., I followed the rules I'm OK, that's a tragedy, so sorry, I feel bad for you, but my behind is OK because I followed the rules.  What needs to happen is that the school is reminded they have the responsibility of safety and will be held accountable and liable for injury or death.  They need to know that a manslaughter charge will be sought for their lack of action if the "unimaginable" happens because they made an incorrect assessment.  If they made an assessment that a psychiatrist or psychologist should have made they chose to make a medical assessment they are not trained for, which is a poor, but accountable choice.  They will be held criminally liable for not keeping your sister, or other children, safe from this person which should be, in today's environment, evaluated by a physcian that is trained for such.

OK?
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: TAB on May 19, 2009, 10:03:04 PM
if you really want to rock th eboat, start with the next PTA/booster meeting. You would be amazed at how a group of parents  can get things done fast.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: philw on May 19, 2009, 10:47:38 PM
If you or I said stuff like this we would be in jail for making terroristic threats.  We would not be allowed out under any situation until we had cleared phychological testing, and even then we would be charged, tried and probably in a State Hospital for a while.


however you have forgotten you are on the Home land security's watch list for being a terrorist  :o ;)


not knowing a lot about the laws over there

would it not be illegal for a minor ( 15yo) to be in possession of a firearm with out being under direct supervision of a licensed firearm holder,

don't the Police have arrest powers if the minor is on school grounds with a firearm with out permits.


also what is causing the girl to be like that,  is she in fear of life for getting picked on and needs to feel that she needs the gun to make her feel safe.  that also the school must look in to to wok out why she is that way.  if the school can not offer the support for her and or she is a troubles kid that will not fit in the school then send her to an education facility that can support her

 
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: TAB on May 19, 2009, 10:49:37 PM
I don't know any state that lets a 15 yo carry a gun unless they are at the range, hunting/fish( CA does, many others don't).
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 19, 2009, 10:51:27 PM
I don't know any state that lets a 15 yo carry a gun unless they are at the range, hunting/fish( CA does, many others don't).

I'm not positive, but I THOUGHT that was only the more rural counties.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: garand4life on May 19, 2009, 11:34:38 PM
however you have forgotten you are on the Home land security's watch list for being a terrorist  :o ;)


not knowing a lot about the laws over there

would it not be illegal for a minor ( 15yo) to be in possession of a firearm with out being under direct supervision of a licensed firearm holder,

don't the Police have arrest powers if the minor is on school grounds with a firearm with out permits.


also what is causing the girl to be like that,  is she in fear of life for getting picked on and needs to feel that she needs the gun to make her feel safe.  that also the school must look in to to wok out why she is that way.  if the school can not offer the support for her and or she is a troubles kid that will not fit in the school then send her to an education facility that can support her

Its illegal for anyone other than LEOs to have firearms on school property. Second this kid is a known bully.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: Texas_Bryan on May 19, 2009, 11:39:16 PM
I'm not positive, but I THOUGHT that was only the more rural counties.

We locked our shotguns up in our tool boxes after a morning dove hunt before coming to school, shot gun hulls an inch deep in the truck bed. ;D
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: fightingquaker13 on May 19, 2009, 11:39:32 PM
Phil, you're half right. Most states say its 16-18 to have a long gun and 21 for a hand gun without supervision (there are exceptions). The thing is though, all 50 frown on shooting up the school. At worst case, if this kid is serious, we're talking about a disturbed kid stealing moms, or Uncle Roy's gun, or giving a banger a happy to "borrow" his gun. The law, is the least of our worries, because if you've decided to commit mas murder, odds are good you're not too worried about it.
FQ13
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: TAB on May 19, 2009, 11:41:13 PM
I'm not positive, but I THOUGHT that was only the more rural counties.


nope you can open carry as long as you are legally fishing/ hunting or on the way too or the way back from said activeatys.  Minors just need permission in writing.

BTW  Too and from hunting/ fishing stops when you are driving on public roads, oddly walking is fine, riding a bike is the same as driving.
Title: Re: It makes your blood boil!
Post by: m25operator on May 20, 2009, 01:14:41 AM
G4life, this is serious, and if I was in your place, the only quick thing is to get her out of there, explain to the teachers and faculty why, get anything with your complaint in writing if possible. But #1, remove her from the threat. Since your the older brother, I don't know if your 16 or 30, matters a little bit, but if your underage, you still have avenues. Your sister not going to school and documenting why is an easy 1st step. If you or she documents each step, it will be easier for later, lawyers, police etc...  teachers and administration don't like the lawyers or police. If challenged, with authority, they will usually back down quickly.

Get her out of there and talk with your parents or her guardians seriously, but don't let her back in until something positive has been done.

Best of luck