The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: fullautovalmet76 on May 19, 2009, 08:14:03 PM
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Michael,
In the book you recommend that one settle upon a fixed blade or folder for their primary carry and not to mix platforms. Do you still think that recommendation is still valid and why? This follows on to the last question: I would like to carry a neck knife with a fixed blade and folder on the strong side. Do you see this as a potential problem? My goal is to have some way I can have a backup in case my strong side is not able to use my folder. And last, in fixed blade knives under $350, what would you recommend for a defense knife? And how about a folder with the same price maximum?
Thanks!
-FA
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Fixed blade Buck, hands down, I use a Buck 105 as my only kitchen knife, it is also my camp knife, except when I was married (she wanted "Real" kitchen knives) I have done so with this same knife for 30 years.
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Fixed blade Buck, hands down, I use a Buck 105 as my only kitchen knife, it is also my camp knife, except when I was married (she wanted "Real" kitchen knives) I have done so with this same knife for 30 years.
Minimalist there, Tom? ;D
+1 on the Buck for camping.
Michael,
In the book you recommend that one settle upon a fixed blade or folder for their primary carry and not to mix platforms. Do you still think that recommendation is still valid and why? This follows on to the last question: I would like to carry a neck knife with a fixed blade and folder on the strong side. Do you see this as a potential problem? My goal is to have some way I can have a backup in case my strong side is not able to use my folder. And last, in fixed blade knives under $350, what would you recommend for a defense knife? And how about a folder with the same price maximum?
Thanks!
-FA
I have gotten good service from a Cold Steel Tanto neck knife, combined with a Gerber Folding clip knife worn strong side. The Cold Steel blade is like a razor and holds a good edge. Same for the Gerber.
Both Waaaaay under $350.
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Minimalist there, Tom? ;D
+1 on the Buck for camping.
YES !
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YES !
Man after my own heart.......keep it minimum and simple...less to go wrong.
(this from a man that carries three blades and two guns every day)
8)
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Minimalist there, Tom? ;D
+1 on the Buck for camping.
I have gotten good service from a Cold Steel Tanto neck knife, combined with a Gerber Folding clip knife worn strong side. The Cold Steel blade is like a razor and holds a good edge. Same for the Gerber.
Both Waaaaay under $350.
Being able to castrate livestock and carve a Thanksgiving turkey with the same knife is the perfect example of efficiency.
During metal fab in high school we were cooking fajitas, another kid just got ready to carve up some meat and picked up a knife and our teacher goes "nooooooooo". Just got done using it on some goats, boy was that a laugh.
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I think mixing platforms might have to do with grabbing your folder, after training with a fixed blade, and forgetting to open it. Of course you can still pummel someone that way.
I went to practice with my fanny pack once and reached to my hip on the first try, HA!
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I believe in practice creating muscle memory. 'Practice Makes Perfect' isn't quite right. 'Perfect Practice Makes Perfect' is better. I carry folders and use them every day. I get used to the setup of a knife carried for a long time. If I then switch to another knife with a different setup, I'm no longer smooth and unthinking in its use. (setup= clip location, opening location, lock type)
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I believe in practice creating muscle memory. 'Practice Makes Perfect' isn't quite right. 'Perfect Practice Makes Perfect' is better. I carry folders and use them every day. I get used to the setup of a knife carried for a long time. If I then switch to another knife with a different setup, I'm no longer smooth and unthinking in its use. (setup= clip location, opening location, lock type)
+1 on that.
Carry everything in the same place, in the same way all the time, every time.
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I believe in practice creating muscle memory. 'Practice Makes Perfect' isn't quite right. 'Perfect Practice Makes Perfect' is better. I carry folders and use them every day. I get used to the setup of a knife carried for a long time. If I then switch to another knife with a different setup, I'm no longer smooth and unthinking in its use. (setup= clip location, opening location, lock type)
I believe what you are saying is the ideal. But is it a contradiction when one says it's acceptable to carry a semi on the hip and a snubby in the pants pocket for example?
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Using knives that are the real deal is always helpful.
http://graymanknives.com/
I use Murray Carter's neck knives for work and convert them to strong side IWB. When off work I'll wear one around the neck. The only steel formulation I use is his Blue Super Steel. If I carrried two knives I'd buy two and carry one IWB and the other around the neck.
http://cartercutlery.com/
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I believe what you are saying is the ideal. But is it a contradiction when one says it's acceptable to carry a semi on the hip and a snubby in the pants pocket for example?
It's not a contradiction if you always keep them in the same places and never swap them. Our local PD carry a gun shaped taser in addition to their handgun. While I've seen some PD carry the taser below their handgun on the strong side hip, I like how our PD carry it on the off side. Much harder to confuse one for the other.
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I'm sure you've already checked your local laws about fixed blade carry and acceptable length and design, here in Texas, you can carry a fixed blade but it cannot be designed for killing, ( double edged, designed as a dagger etc... ) go figure. I believe the fixed blade can be 6" but a folder only 5".
My recommendations are, the neck knife and a folder, and use them as often as possible for a while to teach yourself where they are and how they oriented, do the neck knife with tee shirt and button up. By using them I mean draw them a lot around the house, don't go using your defense knife for opening boxes. While practicing with the neck knife, tape up the edge, it's too close to the good stuff to have an accident with, of course remove the tape when finished practicing.
The fixed blade knife can have some cool features, like a full quillion to prevent your hand from slipping up the handle into sharp pointy end territory. Got a friend that did that with a Cold Steel and it was ugly, could not perform his job ( cop ) and could not shoot for 2 years. It severed all the tendons and muscles to the bone, from the inside of his hand.
I carry 2 folders, one is for everyday chores, it is a spyderco EMT knife, blunt nose, fully serrated for cutting seat belts and such, 3 1/2" blade, blaze orange handle. The other is a cold steel voyager with a 5" blade, very sharp and it is only for cutting something wide and deep, not for any chores, your defense blade should always be ready for flesh, nothing else.
If your interested in upper tier fixed blades, I do have a Cold Steel San Mai Tanto with 9" blade and a Sure Fire Echo, both with sheaths for sale, well under retail.
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Not a contradiction as long as you practice that set up and the transition to use it. A pocket holster is not always easy to access unless you practice a lot.
I believe what you are saying is the ideal. But is it a contradiction when one says it's acceptable to carry a semi on the hip and a snubby in the pants pocket for example?
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Great questions all the way around, guys. Thank you for the great discussion.
I wrote "Street Steel" because there is no simple, authoritative answer to everyone's knife needs. The thought process is more involved than "buy this knife; it's the best."
The comment regarding the semi-auto and snubby is the perfect analogy for the folder/neck knife question. It's fine to carry a combination like that, as long as you have the respective skill sets for both that enable you to draw and use them effectively. As for which ones are "best," again, that question is too subjective to answer. I could recommend two knives that fit my hand and function well for me that could subjectively feel terrible to you. Again, that's why "Street Steel" walks you through the process of choosing something that works for you.
Some basic food for thought:
Many neck knives have terrible edge geometry and don't cut well. Make sure you don't choose one of these.
Many neck knives are too small to offer a solid grip that allows you to cut and thrust with full force. Don't choose one of these either.
Larger neck knives can be too large to carry discreetly. Find a happy balance.
There are many choices for folders, carry positions, opening systems, etc. Pick one that works well with all your styles of dress and allows you to get the knife out quickly and reliably under stress. If it works FOR YOU, it works.
Carry something that is consistent with your local laws and the laws in the areas where you travel. Otherwise, be prepared to suffer the consequences of the carry of an illegal weapon.
If you're stuck and can't decide between two good knives, choose the one that is also available as a dedicated trainer so you can actually practice your skills with a partner. Then get off the couch and do it.
If none of this helps, here's what I carry:
BLACKHAWK Be-Wharned folder as primary, right pocket
Spyderco Delica plain edge, left pocket
Spyderco Delica 50/50, rear pocket
If I add a neck knife to the mix, it's a BLACKHAWK Kalista or XSF Micro.
I hope this helps.
Stay safe,
Mike
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Great questions all the way around, guys. Thank you for the great discussion.
I wrote "Street Steel" because there is no simple, authoritative answer to everyone's knife needs. The thought process is more involved than "buy this knife; it's the best."
The comment regarding the semi-auto and snubby is the perfect analogy for the folder/neck knife question. It's fine to carry a combination like that, as long as you have the respective skill sets for both that enable you to draw and use them effectively. As for which ones are "best," again, that question is too subjective to answer. I could recommend two knives that fit my hand and function well for me that could subjectively feel terrible to you. Again, that's why "Street Steel" walks you through the process of choosing something that works for you.
Some basic food for thought:
Many neck knives have terrible edge geometry and don't cut well. Make sure you don't choose one of these.
Many neck knives are too small to offer a solid grip that allows you to cut and thrust with full force. Don't choose one of these either.
Larger neck knives can be too large to carry discreetly. Find a happy balance.
There are many choices for folders, carry positions, opening systems, etc. Pick one that works well with all your styles of dress and allows you to get the knife out quickly and reliably under stress. If it works FOR YOU, it works.
Carry something that is consistent with your local laws and the laws in the areas where you travel. Otherwise, be prepared to suffer the consequences of the carry of an illegal weapon.
If you're stuck and can't decide between two good knives, choose the one that is also available as a dedicated trainer so you can actually practice your skills with a partner. Then get off the couch and do it.
If none of this helps, here's what I carry:
BLACKHAWK Be-Wharned folder as primary, right pocket
Spyderco Delica plain edge, left pocket
Spyderco Delica 50/50, rear pocket
If I add a neck knife to the mix, it's a BLACKHAWK Kalista or XSF Micro.
I hope this helps.
Stay safe,
Mike
Thanks for the references on the knives, Michael. I do understand that like guns, knives are a very personal thing when it comes to fit. In the book you give references to manufacturers/craftsmen of defense knives and I thought those were very helpful; I especially liked the knives from Bud Nealy.
Do you still carry your Balisong in a neck knife configuration?
After Street Steel, what is the next step in your collection of books and videos?
I hope in the next season of the The Best Defense, that the use of knives are covered. I think they kind of take a "backseat" in most thinking about self defense today, but that is only my opinion.
Thanks!
FA
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I hope in the next season of the The Best Defense, that the use of knives are covered. I think they kind of take a "backseat" in most thinking about self defense today, but that is only my opinion.
Thanks!
FA
Ithink you're right about knives taking a back seat. The reason is that for me, and I think most of us, we think that if we are close enough o the BG to involve knives, something has gone very badly wrong (or more wrong). This might be an unrelaistic view and we should think about it. Secondly, and I pose this to Mr. Janich and everyone, there does seem to be a stigma about knives, that doesn't apply to guns. Me carrying a permited Glock is fine socially, a 6" tanto, not so much. I would like to hear thoughts on this from a legal liability stand point.
FQ13
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Ithink you're right about knives taking a back seat. The reason is that for me, and I think most of us, we think that if we are close enough o the BG to involve knives, something has gone very badly wrong (or more wrong). This might be an unrelaistic view and we should think about it. Secondly, and I pose this to Mr. Janich and everyone, there does seem to be a stigma about knives, that doesn't apply to guns. Me carrying a permited Glock is fine socially, a 6" tanto, not so much. I would like to hear thoughts on this from a legal liability stand point.
FQ13
He covers that aspect in detail in the book. Essentially, he says to know the laws in your area. He recommends that a self defense knife be kept within the range of 3 to 5 inches. Since you're in Florida, pickup this book- Florida Firearms Law, by Jon Guttmacher, Esq. But don't let the title fool you. He touches on knives in the book and I think it's an invaluable legal reference for resident of Florida who wishes to carry concealed weapons.
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Thanks for the references on the knives, Michael. I do understand that like guns, knives are a very personal thing when it comes to fit. In the book you give references to manufacturers/craftsmen of defense knives and I thought those were very helpful; I especially liked the knives from Bud Nealy.
Do you still carry your Balisong in a neck knife configuration?
After Street Steel, what is the next step in your collection of books and videos?
I hope in the next season of the The Best Defense, that the use of knives are covered. I think they kind of take a "backseat" in most thinking about self defense today, but that is only my opinion.
Thanks!
FA
Thank you for understanding the subjective aspect of choosing a knife. You're right; it's exactly like the "what's the best gun?" question.
I no longer carry a balisong in a neck configuration or any other configuration because of legal reasons. It's just not worth the hassle. When I was overseas and had a diplomatic passport, I had the law on my side. Not so anymore, so i have to be more discreet.
After "Street Steel" and the selection of a good carry knife and matching trainer, the next step should be my "Martial Blade Concepts" DVD or "Practical Blade Defense" DVD and the "Fighting Folders" DVD. "Martial Blade Concepts" and "Practical Blade Defense" are both similar and intended to serve as crash courses in the critical skills of defensive knife use. The former includes instruction in two "flow" drills to illustrate reflex training with a partner, while the latter was produced for marketing to the NRA and is therefore tailored as "knife training for gun guys."
Martial Blade Concepts: http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=31
Practical Blade Defense: http://www.staysafemedia.com/product.php?proid=79
"Fighting Folders" was the first instructional video I did on the "improved" version of my knife curriculum (the older stuff I did for Panther Productions doesn't count). With that said, MBC has continued to evolve and even "Fighting Folders " is dated. However, the first 30 minutes or so focuses on knife carry and one-handed openings and is all solid information. The remaining material teaches the critical partner training drills of the MBC system, but is outdated. However, if you purchase from Stay Safe Media, you can get a copy of the "Errata Sheet" that provides step-by-step insights into the things that have evolved since that video was produced.
I definitely plan on covering more knife material during season two of TBD. The frantic shooting schedule of season one--and the fact that the producers were still getting used to the way Rob and I work--prompted them to "hold off" on the knife stuff for fear that it was too intense. Now that they understand how I approach it--and that MBC is markedly different than most other knife systems--it's "game on."
Finally, you are exactly right concerning the "stigma" associated with knives. They are regarded as the weapons of criminals and therefore often viewed more harshly than guns. That's why I work so hard to educate people concerning their proper and responsible defensive use.
Happy Memorial Day. Our eternal thanks to all those who made the ultimate sacrifice to defend our freedom and our way of life.
Stay safe,
Mike
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What's the skinny on push blades? I know the legality issues, and I choose to keep one with me for leaving the office at night. Gun will get you fired...a Cold Steel Safe Maker II won't. It fits well in the pants pocket and I can keep a good grip on it when walking through the dark parking lot.
I'm not a knife operator, I like knives but only use them for farm work, around the house, skinning, etc. Knowing everything has it's place, what are the weaknesses and strengths of a push blade for self-defense?
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A gentleman, who knows a lot more than me of such things, dislikes most push blades as they can rotate in your hand. I'm a fan of the genre, and have versions by Benchmade, CNC Bladewerkz, Cold Steel, Marfione Custom Knives, Mercworx, TOPS.
A wild guess, but I would think that Mr Bane owns a Benchmade Kuma Zume by Steve Schwarzer. It feels like his style.
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If you could get basically the same knife (same mfg) in either AUS 8 or stainless 420 (priced about the same) which one would you choose?
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AUS-8 is considered a superior steel to 420.
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AUS-8 is considered a superior steel to 420.
Thanks, Overload.