The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: azshooter270 on May 19, 2009, 08:41:55 PM
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I'm trying to decide if the match chamber is just more sensitive than a standard chamber, or maybe I have reload problems?
Thanks
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what is happening?
Failure to feed, failure to go into battery.... etc.
Comm'l reloads or home reloads?
99x out of 100 failures with reloads are cuased by reloads.
Could be something like to long of a OAL, bluging the case when your crimp, not sizing all th eway... etc.
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Do you double check all your finished loads? I have found that if I check everyone I cull some, and if I try to shoot the culls I have a lot of issues. However, once the culls are removed from the batch my reloads are every bit as reliable as factory or the gun they are used in.
Just my question and 2 cents. Good luck!
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I will take a stab at it. I have the XD9, and it has a short throat (mine does anyway) similar to CZ's. Depending on what bullets you are using and their profile, you may have to seat them just a tad deeper than you would in others. Since the XDm's are supposed to be match chambers, I would suspect that this is still the case. When this happens they won't go all the way into battery, and I have even had the bullets 'stick' when I extract the case and get powder all over the place. In these cases I use the barrel removed from the pistol as a case length gauge. You should still be using a case gauge as it is, but it really does not measure the ogive.
Of course you may be having other issues. :)
-Bidah
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The gun fails to go into battery. Further, the cartridge/barrel become stuck, and I must tap the cartridge out of the barrel with a rod put in through the muzzle of the barrel as I pull the slide back. Takes two people to do this. I am sizing with a carbide die, seating the bullet first then taper crimping as separate operations. I have not done the case gage thing, so maybe that would tell me something. I have two identical XDM's. My wife's is the one were having the most trouble with.
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Like Bidah said, your rounds are to long and they are being pushed beyond the chamber and into the rifling.
It takes 2 people ? Doesn't it have a slide lock ?
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are you doing a full size? just becuase the die touchs the shell holder, it does not mean your doing a full size. You could calso be over crimping. Both are very common.
Try this, take both guns barrels out. take a round and drop it in the chamber, now do the same with a factory load.
If factory ammo works and the reload does not its the reload. if the factory ammo does not go, its the chamber.
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My brother has a both a 357sig and 9mm XD that are ported.
His experience is that neither gun can shoot HP with any accuracy.
FMJ or ball is dead on but HP or JHP seem to go anywhere they want too
??? ???
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The slide lock is not the issue. The ejector is engaged with the rim of the case, it is not in full battery, it is not in the rear location. It is stuck midway. The extractor will not let loose.
I am full length sizing, but when I seat and crimp, I do not perform any final "sizing" operation. I guess I need to use a final sizing die after loading is complete? When I drop a case into the chamber of the barrel removed from the gun, a factory round clearly seates on the rim of the case like its supposed to, my reloads seem to stop short of the rim.
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are you doing a full size? just becuase the die touchs the shell holder, it does not mean your doing a full size. You could calso be over crimping. Both are very common.
Try this, take both guns barrels out. take a round and drop it in the chamber, now do the same with a factory load.
If factory ammo works and the reload does not its the reload. if the factory ammo does not go, its the chamber.
+1
The slide lock is not the issue. The ejector is engaged with the rim of the case, it is not in full battery, it is not in the rear location. It is stuck midway. The extractor will not let loose.
I am full length sizing, but when I seat and crimp, I do not perform any final "sizing" operation. I guess I need to use a final sizing die after loading is complete? When I drop a case into the chamber of the barrel removed from the gun, a factory round clearly seates on the rim of the case like its supposed to, my reloads seem to stop short of the rim.
TAB is on the right track here, something is probably not right with your sizing operation and/or crimp.
I don't know, but you may be crimping too much and deforming the case just enough not to chamber fully.
Will an empty, re-sized casing drop into the chamber?
If so, try one that has a bullet seated to the correct depth, but NOT crimped.
If it will, then you know it might the crimp.
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lets rule out Over all lenght issuses and case length issuse 1st.
whats the OAL?
whats the lenght of just the case?
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That's actually several good ideas.
I'll have to try chambering cases at different stages of the reloading ops.
Thanks
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that acutally does not work very well.
unless you are over crimping. then it only works for the seat and crimp stages.
if it is a sizing prob, a mic and a manuel are the best tools.
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Oh, explain how I can be seating the die all the way to the shellholder and NOT be fully sizing the case? What else would I do to better size the case?
Thanks
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I know the OAL is not the problem. I'm well within the spec OAL.
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A case gauge might be a handy tool, also.
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Could be any of a number of reason why your not getting a full size. I don't think thats your prob, I think its either a OAL issue or a crimp issuse.
you say your ok with OAL. is that OAL in general or for the bullet? Diffrent types of bullets have diffrent OAL specs.
assuming you are correct about it not being a OAL issuse. back your crimp off a 1/4 turn, load a dummy, try it. repeat until it fits in your barrel. then load 5 live rounds and try it in the gun.
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Oh, explain how I can be seating the die all the way to the shellholder and NOT be fully sizing the case? What else would I do to better size the case?
Thanks
I use a Lee final size/crimp die in a Dillon 650. Even if the die is set to touch the shellplate it does not size the entire case. There is a taper toward the end of the die to better allow entry of the round into the die. Not really a problem unless the case has been "glocked" and you need to get the bulge out. Solution (for me anyway) grind some excess off the end of the die to allow it come down the case further. I still run all my reloades through a case gauge to double check.
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I now have a case gage and the Lee "factory" crimp die. I'm going to try the chamber-at-different-stages drill to see where the problem is coming from. But if I have to, I'll use the "factory" die.
Thanks
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I HIGHLY recommend using the Lee Factory Crimp Die as a final step on reloading. Did I mention I highly recommend it?
That will solve 90% of your issues with reloads in semi auto handguns. The other issue I have seen a bit is mostly pertainign to lead bullets in reloads. The initial taper is not enough and the brass will scrape the lead up and basically be flush with the brass. When said bullet goes to seat, the lead will not allow it to seat fully into the bore. After several rounds, there will be a lead build up in there that will make things tighter and tighter. If you see the gun failing to return to battery by about 1/8" to 1/4" and it especially seems to do this after firing 10-20 rounds, then I would inspect the rounds for that. Run your fingernail around the edge where brass meats lead. If it peels up a chunk of lead...then you have your problem. I take a small screwdriver around each round after loading to see if it catches any shavings and I run every single round through that factory crimp die and all reload issues are gone.
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Bunker,
Sounds like you 'been there, done that'. Good advise.
Welcome to DRTV! We have a 'New Member Into" thread that you can tell us about yourself in (yes there has been 'thread drift' in it but that is the 'norm' here ;D )
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I've had the lead/crimp problem you've described, but for some time I have been seating and crimping in two separate operations. I haven't had the problem since. btw, I would say the failure to go into battery is more like 1/4".
Thanks
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I also seat/crimp in two seperate steps. I taper the crap out of my brass as compared to how they set it up at Lee. What crimp die are you using? If it is not the factory crimp die, then I would switch. As someone said earlier, you can take the barrel out to see how well they headspace. I would try that factory crimp die and I bet they start seating much better.
And yea.....I have been there and was going nuts trying to figure out what was going on. The tighter the barrel specs, the worse the problem. I had a taurus 1911 that ate everything I threw at it and my Kimber refused. Took me some doing to discover the little issues.
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I have used the rcbs taper crimp die. I just got the Lee die and haven't loaded yet with it. Definitely gonna try it.
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Finally got to reloading this weekend to follow some advice...
1. I bought the Lee die and the Dillon case gage.
2. Belled the cases and most cases would still fit into the case gage all the way. This was a little surprising as I thought the bell would prevent all of them from going into the gage. Some took light finger pressure and ranged up to moderate finger pressure to get to fit in all the way.
3. Then seated cast bullets, jacketed bullets, and "plated" bullets. These mostly fit/dropped into gage. Some would not, and even as far as the rim still sticking outside the gage so that I could put fingernail under rim to retract the case from the gage.
4. Lastly, used Lee "factory crimp die" to crimp/size finished cases. These almost all fit into the gage all the way. Some were still barely sticking out of gage maybe .020".
Now I can get out and shoot these and see if I have any more failures to go into battery. I'll post when I shoot them.
By the way, using my range "pickup" brass, I did have some that had a ferocious ring around base, maybe 90 degree arc and .100" forward of rim channel. I've heard people describe this as a "Glock" ring because the case isn't fully supported by Glock chamber? Anyway, no sizing would fix this, so they were throwaways.
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Good luck, AZ....and yes, please do let us know how it went when you shoot the reloads.
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My wife and I went out this a.m. and shot up the loads I referenced above.
1. 100 9mm 125g LRN hardcast
2. 100 9mm 115g "enclosed" Hornady FMJ
3. 100 9mm 115g "plated" Berry's bullets
All had been reloaded per the above process. Not one failure to feed or failure to go into battery! My wife shot all jacketed/plated and I shot the cast bullets. I did have most where the slide failed to lock back on last round. I'll chalk this up to very light loads. Maybe I'll add .1-.2 grains of powder and see if that solves the problem.
I think the Lee factory crimp die may be the trick here. I'm also thinking maybe I was crimping too heavy with the standard taper crimp die and distorting the cases. Dunno, but since I have the Lee die I'll just use that from now on.
By the way, I "chased" my lead loads with a magazine of the plated bullets, and the barrel is very clean. Not as clean as the wife's but pretty clean. Very little leading. I've seen warnings of this but since I'd only shot 100 rounds, it didn't seem as though the leading could've been too bad. Also shot 40 rounds of Win factory self defense loads and of course these shot great. They are +P, but I can't say they seemed all that stout. I guess the XDM handles +P pretty well.
Since my wife and I bought identical XDM9's at the same time, I think I'm gonna run an experiment where I shoot cast almost exclusively and she'll shoot jacketed/plated exclusively and we'll see what long term effects I can notice on barrel.
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be very carful "casing" lead with either played or jacketed ammo. Its best not to do it, but if your going to do it, keep your loads VERY MILD.
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My wife and I went out this a.m. and shot up the loads I referenced above.
1. 100 9mm 125g LRN hardcast
2. 100 9mm 115g "enclosed" Hornady FMJ
3. 100 9mm 115g "plated" Berry's bullets
All had been reloaded per the above process. Not one failure to feed or failure to go into battery! My wife shot all jacketed/plated and I shot the cast bullets. I did have most where the slide failed to lock back on last round. I'll chalk this up to very light loads. Maybe I'll add .1-.2 grains of powder and see if that solves the problem.
I think the Lee factory crimp die may be the trick here. I'm also thinking maybe I was crimping too heavy with the standard taper crimp die and distorting the cases. Dunno, but since I have the Lee die I'll just use that from now on.
By the way, I "chased" my lead loads with a magazine of the plated bullets, and the barrel is very clean. Not as clean as the wife's but pretty clean. Very little leading. I've seen warnings of this but since I'd only shot 100 rounds, it didn't seem as though the leading could've been too bad. Also shot 40 rounds of Win factory self defense loads and of course these shot great. They are +P, but I can't say they seemed all that stout. I guess the XDM handles +P pretty well.
Since my wife and I bought identical XDM9's at the same time, I think I'm gonna run an experiment where I shoot cast almost exclusively and she'll shoot jacketed/plated exclusively and we'll see what long term effects I can notice on barrel.
Most of the issues with slide lock that you described are not due to your loads....so do not change your powder charge for those. If you want to change something, change the magazine followers or magazine itself. That just screams to me that the follower is not engaging the slide stop.
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Most of the issues with slide lock that you described are not due to your loads....so do not change your powder charge for those. If you want to change something, change the magazine followers or magazine itself. That just screams to me that the follower is not engaging the slide stop.
I'd try upping the charge first as a couple friends of mine who had the same problem solved it that way, one went 1/2 a grain, don't know how much the other guy went.
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.5 grain can be a HUGE impact with some powders and loads. If you increase by .5, you can go from safe loads to VERY unsafe.
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He was a revolver shooter who was transitioning to his first semi auto (Taurus 1911) in revolvers he used the low end of the load, of course with wheel guns it doesn't effect performance like with a semi, but he had 3/4 or a full Grain leeway, so with his new load he was generating enough pressure to push the slide fully to the rear but still had 1/4 to 1/2 a grain below max pressure.