The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Timothy on May 22, 2009, 05:31:07 PM
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Ok you Florida residents, here is the question of the day and FQ13 I'm sure I already know what your gonna say but.....was listening to the radio on the way home from work today and the subject of Jeb Bush came up for 2012.
What are your varied opinions of John Ellis "Jeb" Bush. He was your Governor so I need an honest answer please!
Ranting is allowed if justified by some heinous act you think he's guilty of... ;D
Ready, set, GO!!!
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Ahh Timothy, its like early dawn. Five minutes past shooting light, and you see them fold their wings ad start to land next to the decoys. Sorry, I was having a moment, let me think.......HELL NO!!!!! Its not just that he's even more right wing then his brother, its not the fact that he is in the pocket of the relious right (making public school students pass a state mandated exam to graduate, but not requiring the same of private schools that got my tax dollars), its that his last name is Bush. Don't misunderstand me, I voted twice for Bush the elder, my first and second vote for president. I think he is about the most underrated FP president of this century (I'd almost put him ahead of Reagan for overseeing the peaceful collapse of the USSR). W on the other hand, would have been better off given up for adoption. But that's not my beef. I'm tired of the Kennedys, the Clintons and the Bushs. When did we become a nation of heiredetary dynasties? Its not Europe or North Korea outside. I for one, want the GOP to find a good, smart (hopefully Libertarian leaning) candidate. I don't want to se the The Godfather Part III, because we all know that that one sucked. ;D
FQ13
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no one named bush is going to be elected anytime soon...
It does not matter if they are the right person for the job... the name is a death blow.
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By the end of the Obama Presidency, Bush might not be such a bad word anymore. W wasn't all that great, but he did more right than wrong. He was the better alternative in the elections that he won. The Presidency is a tough job.
Jeb seems to be brighter. I don't think he'll be the candidate for the GOP, but good bets are that whomever they pick will be better that the pick of the left.
Since the majority of the issues right now revolve around economics, Romney probably would have been the best pick.
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Despite what the irrelevant Bush bashers will say, while Jeb may be perceived as not having sufficient conservative credibility I think that after 4 years of this no experience socialist POS Alf the Wonder Beagle could get elected. And it's not like American politics is any stranger to multiple generations from the same family, only the ignorant left ignores the contributions of the Adams family or the Roosevelts, FDR was a socialist turd but Teddy and his Father gave good service to our nation.
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Despite what the irrelevant Bush bashers will say, while Jeb may be perceived as not having sufficient conservative credibility I think that after 4 years of this no experience socialist POS Alf the Wonder Beagle could get elected. And it's not like American politics is any stranger to multiple generations from the same family, only the ignorant left ignores the contributions of the Adams family or the Roosevelts, FDR was a socialist turd but Teddy and his Father gave good service to our nation.
Point noted Tom, but its bad enough we have career politicians. There's something about making it a "family business" that rubs me the wrong way. Maybe its just me, but it bothers me. Frankly JEB on his worst day is smarter than W on his best. I lived in TX under W and Fl. under JEB. If you forced me to choose which one I think would be the better choice, it would be JEB every time. There's nothing wrong with the man other than that I just disagrre with him on some key issues like civil liberties ( the Terry Schiavo thing was the final staw for me). The point is though, I just do not like the idea of a dynasty.
FQ13
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We may not have a choice by 2012.
But if we did I'm not voting for a mainstream candidate from either of the ruling parties.
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no one named bush is going to be elected anytime soon...
It does not matter if they are the right person for the job... the name is a death blow.
Probably true, but if the crystal ball holds true, a landslide victory, in three years, for anyone BUT Obama, may work.
After all it's Carter v2.0. Wait till the inflation kicks in, it will be like old times,....... :-\
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He's already got the unemployment numbers up 6.7 MILLION currently collecting, all since the election.
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Ok you Florida residents, here is the question of the day and FQ13 I'm sure I already know what your gonna say but.....was listening to the radio on the way home from work today and the subject of Jeb Bush came up for 2012.
What are your varied opinions of John Ellis "Jeb" Bush. He was your Governor so I need an honest answer please!
Ranting is allowed if justified by some heinous act you think he's guilty of... ;D
Ready, set, GO!!!
Can we get some new blood in there? As much as I have respect for Bush I and II; D.C. needs to be cleaned out of the old royalty. Term limits, Sarah Palin with her rifle by golly / Alan Keyes in 2012! :o
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How about Palin & Coburn in 2012??
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Palin/Huckabee ticket, Chuck Norris Sec. of Defense.?
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I liked Sarah Palin and think she was the best qualified of the 4 candidates in the last election. However if you are looking for fresh faces how about Bobby Jindal and Alan Keyes ?
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Where is the comment from the rest of our Florida contingent?
I would have expected something from the Cat by now! It was serious question since I don't know much about Jeb. Who the GOP comes up with could be from left field but as history shows, Governors are the most popular pool to chose from. It's really rare to have a sitting Senator get elected in modern times.
Let's see.....Truman, JFK and BHO....not going to count Nixon or Johnson...too much time for Nixon and Johnson was a VP...
I think Palin, though had executive experience, was a hasty choice for a campaign that was looking for a boost and it backfired. I have nothing against her, just don't know enough. Time will tell but I doubt she'll be the pick. Keyes and Jindahl I would have to do a little research. The GOP has a huge mountain to climb and the midterms will be very telling of what more they have to do to overcome this asshats popularity.
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Forget anyone with the name Bush , as the leftwing press and the other haters already have made a cottage industry out of Bush Hating. Bobby Jindal is a fresh face the dems will have work hard to smear, and he also has the Minority appeal as an East Indian American success story.
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Tim, You forgot Ford although he was not elected. The only US President to carry only 1 district.
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Tim, You forgot Ford although he was not elected. The only US President to carry only 1 district.
I didn't forget about Gerry...he lived in my home town of Grand Rapids but as you said, he wasn't elected to the VP position either. He was appointed by Nixon after Spiro resigned but you already know that...
He was MY first CINC before the asshat peanut farming dimwit.....
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Where is the comment from the rest of our Florida contingent?
I would have expected something from the Cat by now! It was serious question since I don't know much about Jeb. Who the GOP comes up with could be from left field but as history shows, Governors are the most popular pool to chose from. It's really rare to have a sitting Senator get elected in modern times.
Let's see.....Truman, JFK and BHO....not going to count Nixon or Johnson...too much time for Nixon and Johnson was a VP...
I think Palin, though had executive experience, was a hasty choice for a campaign that was looking for a boost and it backfired. I have nothing against her, just don't know enough. Time will tell but I doubt she'll be the pick. Keyes and Jindahl I would have to do a little research. The GOP has a huge mountain to climb and the midterms will be very telling of what more they have to do to overcome this asshats popularity.
Short answer....No!
Not conservative enough, pro illegal immigration, idiot for a wife.
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As a resident of FL for most of my life, I can say that Jeb did a good job as governor and left the state better than his predecessor, the late Gov. Lawton Chiles. As far as the two major items (to me) in politics (Right to life and the 2A), I thought he did fine. However, I think he should stay out of presidential politics, especially after he appeared to be abandoning core conservative principles in his "listening tour" with other Republicans. And like TAB noted, the Bush name is not a good name in politics now.
And I'll say this about our current governor, Charlie Crist: This guy is a weasel. My instinct tells me he will sell us out the first chance he gets if he thinks it will help his political career. On top of all that, he is letting the largest property insurer leave the state because he will not change regulations that allow the company to price its product more appropriately. And the last straw for me was when I saw him standing on the same podium with Obama during a visit here after the first of the year; the scene of the woman who was living in the car and the dude who was working at McDonald's for four years....
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Jeb is a smart guy, I dont'agree with some of his views as I said and I think the Bush name is poisin now. As far as the other choices mentioned, I think Jindal is your best bet. I don't agree with his social conservatism, but he is scary smart, has held high offices at a ridiculously young age and done well. I'd never vote for him being a Libertarian, but I do respect him. Palin on the other hand is an idiot and Keyes is a scumbag. Let me define scumbag. A man is someone who brings a child into this world and is its dad, not just a sperm donor. Anyone who abandons their kid is, by default, a scum bag. Keyes disowned his daughter when she came out. To me anyone who would turn their back on their child because of who they love is squarely in the scumbag catgory (Note I give Cheney props for not doing so). As far as Crist, I respect him for being competant, and I think he'd make a pretty good senator, President, not so much.
FQ13
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Crist is a preppy, opportunist, air head, POS that I wouldn't trust to do the right thing even if his mother was watching!
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Crist is a preppy, opportunist, air head, POS that I wouldn't trust to do the right thing even if his mother was watching!
Very well stated, Haz! You must have went to the "Tom Bogan School of Forum Posting"..... ;)
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Crist is a preppy, opportunist, air head, POS that I wouldn't trust to do the right thing even if his mother was watching!
Don't hold back, Haz. Tell us how you REALLY feel!!
Personally, the more I see and hear of Mike Huckabee the better I like him.
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As much as I hate to say it- don't take this the wrong way, but I think I've had ENOUGH BUSH.
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Can we get some new blood in there? As much as I have respect for Bush I and II; D.C. needs to be cleaned out of the old royalty. Term limits, Sarah Palin with her rifle by golly / Alan Keyes in 2012! :o
Amen to that thought...... DC needs to be treated like a baby's diaper.....and for the same reason, too.
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I think Jeb Bush would be a better president than W but I don't think he has a snowball's chance in hell of getting elected because of his brother. I would vote for him if he was running but I don't think it will happen.
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Can we get some new blood in there? As much as I have respect for Bush I and II; D.C. needs to be cleaned out of the old royalty. Term limits, Sarah Palin with her rifle by golly / Alan Keyes in 2012! :o
Good choice, I would like to see Keyes, Palin, Coburn & Huckabee run for president next time, then sub in the two with the best performance. I'll hold on Jindal right now. Jindal has done some great things and is a sharp cookie, but he did compromise with the good old boy network in Louisiana and was severely chastised by the people right after he ascended as governor....I'd like to see Jindal's performance for at least a couple of years to see if he's fixed that problem. Right now Jindal is a high flyer but is still swayed to compromise more easily than the top four choices; Keyes, Palin, Coburn and Huckabee.
I voted for Keyes back in...I think 92 when Dole the Great Compromiser was running. I was in Louisiana at the time...which was, until the last election, the only state to give a black man an electorial vote (for Keyes). Keyes get's revved up from time to time, but you've got to admire a man who has the strength of character to break fellowship with an errant child. I give him a real plus for standing up against homosexuality with his own daughter...many people who believe will cash in the moral guidance of God when it's their own...he's a standup guy. Today it seems most people who call themselves Christians talk the talk but sell it out and compromise when standing up for right is at their front door....just like a TV preacher.
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If you won't stand up for your beliefs because it's family, then you won't stand up for your beliefs.
Any one who would compromise their beliefs because of family ties is a hypocrite.
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If you won't stand up for your beliefs because it's family, then you won't stand up for your beliefs.
Any one who would compromise their beliefs because of family ties is a hypocrite.
Ten-ring.
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If you won't stand up for your beliefs because it's family, then you won't stand up for your beliefs.
Any one who would compromise their beliefs because of family ties is a hypocrite.
You boys aren't from the South, where blood is a damn sight thicker than water. The thing is, over the forty thousand or so years of human history, ideology, politics and theology have changed. Family obligations, however have remained the same (or at least recognizably similar). Me, I believe this is Natural Law. To, loving the irony, quote that Jersey Boy Springsteen. "A man turns his back on his family and he just ain't no good". I wouldn't trust him, wouldn't hire him, and damn sure wouldn't vote him dog catcher. Self righteous pharisees are a dime a dozen. Good dads, are far too rare.
FQ13
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You boys aren't from the South, where blood is a damn sight thicker than water. The thing is, over the forty thousand or so years of human history, ideology, politics and theology have changed. Family obligations, however have remained the same (or at least recognizably similar). Me, I believe this is Natural Law. To, loving the irony, quote that Jersey Boy Springsteen. "A man turns his back on his family and he just ain't no good". I wouldn't trust him, wouldn't hire him, and damn sure wouldn't vote him dog catcher. Self righteous pharisees are a dime a dozen. Good dads, are far too rare.
FQ13
Since civilization has only existed or 6,000 years this is a good opportunity for me to say that your liberal tendency to make up facts is why I have no respect for you or your opinions and would ignore your posts if that option were provided.
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Since civilization has only existed or 6,000 years this is a good opportunity for me to say that your liberal tendency to make up facts is why I have no respect for you or your opinions and would ignore your posts if that option were provided.
I said history Tom, not civilization. Hell, digs put the aborigines in Australia earlier than that. The evidence of what we would recognize as family groups is there in Europe, Ausrtalia, Africa and Asia. Its not me that needs the history lesson here. If I hadn't lost my job, I'd buy you a subscription to The National Geographic or Nature. At least you'd read them once a day. ;D
FQ13
PS If you want to confine the debate to the post Ur era, it still doesn't nullify my point.
PPS You're wrong on the facts and wrong on the principle. If you must choose a theocratic social conservative, choose Jindal or Huckabee, they at least are decent men. Keyes is simply a self righteous POS who abandonded his own child. Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them". The fruit I see is bigotry and betrayal. A bigot with a Bible is still a bigot (and I speak from familial experience). I don't much care for bigots, I don't care what flavor they come in (leftwing, right wing, PC, racist, afro-centic homophobic or otherwise).
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palin is another one of those, "does not have a chance in hell"
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I said history Tom, not civilization. Hell, digs put the aborigines in Australia earlier than that. The evidence of what we would recognize as family groups is there in Europe, Ausrtalia, Africa and Asia. Its not me that needs the history lesson here. If I hadn't lost my job, I'd buy you a subscription to The National Geographic or Nature. At least you'd read them once a day. ;D
FQ13
PS If you want to confine the debate to the post Ur era, it still doesn't nullify my point.
PPS You're wrong on the facts and wrong on the principle. If you must choose a theocratic social conservative, choose Jindal or Huckabee, they at least are decent men. Keyes is simply a self righteous POS who abandonded his own child. Jesus said "By their fruits you shall know them". The fruit I see is bigotry and betrayal. A bigot with a Bible is still a bigot (and I speak from familial experience). I don't much care for bigots, I don't care what flavor they come in (leftwing, right wing, PC, racist, afro-centic homophobic or otherwise).
Take the Bible or not is your deal...I'm not arguing that here. I believe if you call yourself something you should at least try to be that and be somewhat knowledgeable about it. You guys are smart enough to read it yourself if you want and know that homosexuality is an abomination...heck, ya'll know that without being told. You can either believe the Bible or not, that's your deal....but I take offense when someone claims my Christianity and twists the truth beyond any acceptable reason....an old, overused, tired arguement is that everything is open to interpretation. Differences in opinion and interpretation of concepts in or out of context is one thing that I'm OK with....but this ain't one of them.
Once again, ya'll can believe it or not, but believe the Bible or disbelieve it for what it is by reading it yourself, not what someone says it is. I don't see where interpretation comes in at all...it's pretty plain.
Jesus said:
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
I say good on Alan Keyes for breaking fellowship with his homosexual daughter.
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Family obligations, however have remained the same (or at least recognizably similar). Me, I believe this is Natural Law. To, loving the irony, quote that Jersey Boy Springsteen. "A man turns his back on his family and he just ain't no good". I wouldn't trust him, wouldn't hire him, and damn sure wouldn't vote him dog catcher. Self righteous pharisees are a dime a dozen. Good dads, are far too rare.
FQ13
I assume the you feel the same way if a child turns their back on their family too, right? Who was wrong in the following situations:
Ben Franklin or his son, the loyalist governor of New Jersey in the Revolution?
Abraham Lincoln or his father? Lincoln would not go to his father's funeral because of the animus that existed between them.
I think you're way off base here. Keyes is standing for his beliefs, which he bases upon his understanding of the Bible. And for someone who espouses tolerance, you only seem to only allow it for those beliefs with which you agree. Since you quoted Jesus, I will paraphrase his statement on judging others:
Judging people is a two-way street. Be aware that how you judge others is how you are going to be judged.
I think you need to take a few steps back and rethink things....
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I assume the you feel the same way if a child turns their back on their family too, right? Who was wrong in the following situations:
Ben Franklin or his son, the loyalist governor of New Jersey in the Revolution?
Abraham Lincoln or his father? Lincoln would not go to his father's funeral because of the animus that existed between them.
I think you're way off base here. Keyes is standing for his beliefs, which he bases upon his understanding of the Bible. And for someone who espouses tolerance, you only seem to only allow it for those beliefs with which you agree. Since you quoted Jesus, I will paraphrase his statement on judging others:
Judging people is a two-way street. Be aware that how you judge others is how you are going to be judged.
I think you need to take a few steps back and rethink things....
You maybe right fullauto. Its just teaching I have come across way too many kids who never knew their dads and some boys (I won't call them men) who actually refered to a young woman as "they baby momma" in my presence, which was a mistake they did not repeat. I am just very sensetive on the subject of a father taking responsability for his children because I think, and know from seeing it, tht a lot of our current problems are the result of too many failing to do so. I will say one last word on the gay child thing. Alan Keyes and Dick Cheney are two men I disagree with. Cheney, I would shake hands and break bread with. Its not the gay thing, its the dad thing.
FQ13
PS Lincoln was wrong not to attend his father's funeral, its just something you do. As far as Franklin, defying your father (or child) out of principle is fine. Its just that you shouldn't let that disagreement poison the whole relationship. There is such a thing as agreeing to disagree and still being civil. As my great grand dad (the klansman with whom I very much disagreed) said "There are sometimes reasons to kill a man. There are none to be rude to him".
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You boys aren't from the South, where blood is a damn sight thicker than water. The thing is, over the forty thousand or so years of human history, ideology, politics and theology have changed. Family obligations, however have remained the same (or at least recognizably similar). Me, I believe this is Natural Law. To, loving the irony, quote that Jersey Boy Springsteen. "A man turns his back on his family and he just ain't no good". I wouldn't trust him, wouldn't hire him, and damn sure wouldn't vote him dog catcher. Self righteous pharisees are a dime a dozen. Good dads, are far too rare.
FQ13
I'm from the south...and I love my family and would do anything in my power for most of them.....but I have kin that I don't associate with at all anymore........... right is right and wrong is wrong and some of them are into some powerful wrong.
I got tired of trying to help them and then getting stabbed in the back (sometimes in the eye) for my troubles.
Sometimes my southern hospitality runs a little thin .... especially when dealing with family.
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I'm from the south...and I love my family and would do anything in my power for most of them.....but I have kin that I don't associate with at all anymore........... right is right and wrong is wrong and some of them are into some powerful wrong.
I got tired of trying to help them and then getting stabbed in the back (sometimes in the eye) for my troubles.
Sometimes my southern hospitality runs a little thin .... especially when dealing with family.
Friends you can pick, relatives are "luck of the draw".
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I'm from the south...and I love my family and would do anything in my power for most of them.....but I have kin that I don't associate with at all anymore........... right is right and wrong is wrong and some of them are into some powerful wrong. .......
Good on you. You are a standup guy.