The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Rock44 on February 26, 2007, 12:55:49 PM
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I have a lite J frame .38 for my front pocket and a kimber compact for my IWB carry but I am interested in a big bore snubby and was thinking about the bulldog .44,does anyone have experience with these?would they be a front pocket gun?I think they would make a fine car gun.all opinions welcomed.thanks
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You know, you'll get mixed opinions on the Bulldog...to be sure, it's not an S&W or a Ruger, but it also doesn't cost like and S&W or a Ruger...it's also the only big bore game in town. I've been very pleased with mine, and I've shot the crap out it, including with those heavy bullet loads you're not supposed to use in a Bulldog (heavy bullet loads can have a tendency to "pull" the bullet out of the case of the other rounds in the cylinder under recoil, giving you a world class jam up). I've probably got 600 rounds through mine and it has worked fine. Check out my friend Jeff Quinn's review of his Charter Bulldog over on GunBlast (http://www.gunblast.com/Bulldog_Pug.htm).
Michael B
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thanks for that mike,I have many fine S&W and rugers but like you said it's the only big bore in the game right now.I guess it would'nt be a front pocket type do to size and weight?
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In the used market, there are still some Taurus 445 .44 Spec out there and even fewer Taurus 450 .45 Colt.
I think my 445 is almost ideal. The 450 would be ideal.
But my interest is only in the blued steel (445) or stainless steel (450) models.
The lightweight versions of each would not be as pleasant to shoot.
I have fired the same stout loads thru my buddy's Bulldog and my 445 and the Taurus is MUCH more pleasant to shoot.
Mike
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I agree with Michael, you’ll get many comments on the Bulldog, and like its forefathers the English Bulldog revolver, this pistol has it’s lovers and haters but I have always found the muzzle blast to be a little to much. And of course with the recoil can cause set-back on the cartridges (what Michael refers to as pull on the bullets) is a legitimate complaint. As a former warranty center for many of the manufacturers, I’ve seen this occur. This is when the recoil slams the loaded rounds with such force that the cartridges are set back and the bullets are lodged forward thus protruding into gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone (the beginning of the barrel).
If you have a chance to pick up an S&W Model 625 3” barrel (.45ACP), it makes a great pocket-rocket. Or one of the snubby N-frames produced by the Boston distributor Lew Horton during the 80’s. Of course if you’re lucky maybe you’ll run across an old Fitzgerald Colt DA.45.
Dude357
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been looking at them as well.thanks
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Isn't bullet pull and set back two different things? My understanding is that set back typically occurs in autoloaders where the bullet is pushed back into the case (i.e. set back) -- decreasing the overall length of the cartridge -- that creates higher than normal -- or desirable -- pressures, sometimes resulting in catestrophic failure otherwise referred to as Ka-boom...
Bullet pull occurs in revolvers -- usually light in weight -- while firing powerful (though sometimes mild) cartridges/calibers. The bullet (usually lead with weak crimps) begins to move forward -- increasing the overall length of the cartridge -- until it extends beyond the cylinder causing the revolver to bind and fail.
That said, I've not had any difficulty with bullet pull while using 200 gr. or less bullets in my stainless Bulldog. Years ago, when all Icould find was a box of the old 246 gr round nose lead .44 ammo -- I remember it fired thorugh the pistol without difficulty. But that was the only box of "heavy" bullet ammo ever used in the gun.
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I think what dude357 is saying is that the whole cartridge sets back upon firing causing the bullet to move forward in the case.if I were to get a bulldog it would be carried alot and shot very little using factory 200's like corbon DPX.I have my other shooting guns that I put alot of rounds through. ;D
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I recently found myself in the same delima as rock44 in wanting a 44 snubby. I was lucky enought to find a 1980's stainless CA Bulldog that came out of an estate sale and from all indications was fired little if at all. It was worked over by a company of the time called Personal Protection Systems (maybe someone here is familiar with them as they are now out of business). I was made hammerless and DAO as well as placing The Terminator on the side of the barrel and Trapper Gun on the frame. It is a sweet shooter and most can say what they want about CA revolvers but you don't see many older models for sale on the internet or gun forums. I am extremely pleased, now if I could just find affordable 44 special ammo.
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I got my fist Charter Arms 44 in 1976,and have had one around most of the last 21 years.I just picked up a 2007 model Charter 44 in stainless and find it to be a very fine revolver Doug
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FLYANDSCUBA
The term “set back” I used goes back to almost 20 years when I was in firearms retail and we were a warranty station for most of the Industry. It was used to describe an occurrence as ROCK 44 stated . . . the whole cartridge sets back upon firing causing the bullet to move forward in the case. At that time bullet pull was usually described in the relationship of the loading or reloading of a cartridge and the crimp and/or the contact of the case to the bullet and the force in which it takes to move the bullet in the case.
This subject brings up a good topic of discussion concerning cartridge selection. With modern technology, it’s not as critical as it was just a few years ago. Most ammo today can withstand much greater factors than ammo of old.
DUDE357
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Hmmm...thanks, I think I now understand. Though my thinking was the entire pistol recoiled to the rear (cartridges are captive in the cylider and have only a fraction of an inch to move rearward) and the heavy bullets in the unfired cartridges tended to remain in their position of rest...you know Newton's Law and all...thus resulting in an increased OAL of the cartridge, due to the weak crimp on the lead bullet, until they protruded through the chamber and the cylinder would bind.
I think we're talking about the same failure, just in a little different way...
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flyandscuba,
We are indeed speaking of the same thing, our Industry tends to use a lot of terms / actions that are almost prosperity to one manufacturer, such as one company will call the part that rotates the cylinder a paw, while another will call it a hand. One company has its cylinder rotating clockwise while another rotates counter-clockwise, etc . . .
Thanks for the replies; it has made me think of situations that I saw during my years in retail. Not only have I seen many cases of the bullet moving forward as we discussed but I have also seen the bullet retreat in the case again due to improper crimp and usually in big bore rounds. I also saw this happen when the first aluminum cases were introduced, but of course that problem was cured years ago.
DUDE357
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anyone care to comment on why 44 special ammo is so hard to find or at least it is here locally?
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44 Special ammo is just not that popular of a cartridge. While I find it much more pleasant to shoot through 44 revolvers than the magnum, is seems that most guys feel they have something to prove and insist on shooting full house 44 mag loads.
Hey, I love torque and recoil as much as the next person but I don't see much point in putting unnecessary wear and tear on my guns if I don't have to.
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Big bore means we start with 4, the charm of the CA
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anyone care to comment on why 44 special ammo is so hard to find or at least it is here locally?
I roll my own and use a LEE factory die for a tight crimp.I do have some cor-bon 200 gr. DPX that I bought through midway.
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So hey, Norfdet, why don't you open a big ole can of worms???
A lot of us "carry the torch" for the .44 Special, which is a magnificent cartridge, especially in mid-frame guns like S&W 296/396/696 5-shots or a converted OM of 50th Anniversary Ruger Blackhawk. The Taurus 441 series is also excellent.
I believe the Winchester 200-grain .44 Special SilverTip is one of the greatest self-defense rounds ever made.
However, the ugly truth is that .44 Specials simply don't sell. I mean, I buy 'em; John Taffin at AMERICAN HANDGUNNER buys 'em; a few of our firiends buy 'em...but that's about it. S&W, Taurus and a bunch of other people have gotten stung in the .44 Special market...thems of us who wax poetic about the cartridge are an insufficient mmarket base!
In a large frame revolver, I'm gonna go with the .44 Magnum simply because of its versatility. As I mentined, I have a .44 Magnum snubbie in the works with Alpha Precision, and I anticipate putting a lot of .44 Special rounds through it. Still, I wanna be able to lob hand grenades if necessary, such as a stampeding garbage truck.
Michael B
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So hey, Norfdet, why don't you open a big ole can of worms???
Michael B
Well call me an oddball! I love the 44 special, 10mm and the 41 magnum all of which are become increasingly more difficult to find. I am hoping that somehow, someday that S&W will re-release all of these calibers in guns with modern machining. I would love to have a 1006 or 1076 of current production (although I will never part with my 1076).
Regards.
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Hey does anyone remember the charter arms backpacker. 2 inch barrel, magnaported ( waste but looks cool) standard wood grips that only cover the grip frame, tyler t-grip adapter, .......44 special to be sure. Smallest, hard hitting belly gun, but from personal experience, a true beasty to shoot. I just picked up a 3 inch model 625 S&W, it too requires attitude when shooting major power loads, not unmanageable, but respectful. Although we are talking big bore, the model 65 S&W in 3 inch is one of the best fighting revolvers of all time. I built an Andy Cannon replica for myself, dehorned, no hammer spur, round butt, dovetailed front sight, checkered backstrap, action slicked, sweeet. Fastest into action pistol I have ever owned.
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I have a 3" 65 RB and would rather carry my CA 3" bulldog than the 65. The CA seems smaller is size than the 65 and in a much more potent round.
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Hey NORFDET, I agree, the charter is a bit slimmer, and lighter, but more potent? I would not feel naked with either, but 125 grn. magnums are potent! plus the one extra shot. The Backpacker I mentioned before, surely was power in a very small package. But it did bring a stronger meaning to " Don't make me use this".
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The lightweight versions of each would not be as pleasant to shoot.
I can attest to that. I used to have a 450 Ti. Bought it whe they first came out. Liked it, but it made your hand sore REAL Quick. I don't know that it'd be a good pocket gun though. It's pretty bulky. Even with real bad flinching I could shoot it plenty wll enough for self defense. It got stolen from me.