The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: ericire12 on May 28, 2009, 08:17:51 PM

Title: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: ericire12 on May 28, 2009, 08:17:51 PM
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/05/28/blackhawk-barrel-takes-a-beating/

Quote
(http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/rugerblackhawk.jpg)

There are at least five bullets stuck in that revolver barrel. RugerForum members seem to think is a Ruger Blackhawk in .357 Magnum. The squib loads could have been low powered .38 Special rounds or very badly loaded .357 rounds. That the shooter did not notice it after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th round is crazy!

It is hard to see if there is a bulge in that barrel, a symptom of a round fired into a blocked barrel. I think if had been a semi-automatic pistol there would have been a disaster. A revolver can vent gas in the gap between the cylinder and the barrel but in a autoloader pistol for a brief period of time the gas has no where to go and the pressure build up would be considerable.

A few weeks ago I was shooting some old .22 Longs out of a rifle which I had not fired them out of before. I nearly crapped my pants after the second round when I realized to forget to check the spotting scope to ensure that the first round made it out of the barrel and hit the target. I was shooting iron sights and could not see the target. I learnt a good lesson. Always make sure you hit the target, especially when you are shooting low powered ammunition.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: PegLeg45 on May 28, 2009, 08:25:10 PM
Those remind me of some .38 spl rounds we shot into a bowling pin some years ago. They were so weak, they didn't penetrate the plastic cover by more than half the length of the bullet.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: twyacht on May 28, 2009, 08:59:27 PM
Along the lines of the photo, the barrel does not seem bulged on the axis shown, would have to be "looking down the barrel" for the other axis.

With that type of result, didn't the rounds fired "sound" different? No hole in target, etc,..? ???

That's similar to how Brandon Lee was killed, .44 Magnum bullets with no powder, but still had primers,  gun fired. Primer manages to get the .44 Magnum bullet "squibbed" in the barrel.

End Scene,....

Next day, poor prop. mgt. and inspectors reload .44 Magnum with full power "blanks". Squib STILL in barrel.

Blank Fired, enough to hit Brandon Lee in abdomen at point blank range,..... actor killed.

This shooter is really lucky, AFTER SEVERAL SQUIBS, to not have the whole thing kaboom in his hand, face.

Although that is some quality cuts in the barrel for examination,..
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: PegLeg45 on May 28, 2009, 09:05:59 PM
Along the lines of the photo, the barrel does not seem bulged on the axis shown, would have to be "looking down the barrel" for the other axis.

With that type of result, didn't the rounds fired "sound" different? No hole in target, etc,..? ???


That's similar to how Brandon Lee was killed, .44 Magnum bullets with no powder, but still had primers,  gun fired. Primer manages to get the .44 Magnum bullet "squibbed" in the barrel.

End Scene,....

Next day, poor prop. mgt. and inspectors reload .44 Magnum with full power "blanks". Squib STILL in barrel.

Blank Fired, enough to hit Brandon Lee in abdomen at point blank range,..... actor killed.

This shooter is really lucky, AFTER SEVERAL SQUIBS, to not have the whole thing kaboom in his hand, face.

Although that is some quality cuts in the barrel for examination,..

+1 on that.

One other thing it shows is the strength of Ruger revolvers.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 28, 2009, 09:10:34 PM
"Although that is some quality cuts in the barrel for examination,.."

I believe it was sanded after being cut
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: dj454 on May 28, 2009, 09:26:43 PM
I saw the G&A torture team do this intentionally to a 686 followed by a hot factory load. It pushed some of the bullets out and bulged the barrel but no catastrophic failure. I agree if this had been an auto KABOOM if it was followed by a hot load. Of course in an auto this might have been caught earlier because the gun probably would not cycle. If you want a load that light you might want to stick to lead. I know in the reloading manuals they don't recomend reducing .38 special jacketed loads because the jacketed bullets are more likely to stick in the bore. Its a shame someone destroyed a nice firearm.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: Timothy on May 28, 2009, 09:30:08 PM
"Although that is some quality cuts in the barrel for examination,.."
I believe it was sanded after being cut


I was thinking maybe an end mill on a Bridgeport...maybe not!
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: 1911 Junkie on May 28, 2009, 09:31:21 PM
........ Its a shame someone destroyed a nice firearm.

Nahhhhhhhh........new barrel and it's good to go. ;)
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: blackwolfe on May 28, 2009, 09:34:36 PM
One of the basic pistol  instrustuctors at my sportsman club saw this happen on a revolver.  All six shots fired and stuck in the barrel.  The last one was stuck in the forcing cone and the first clue the shooter had was that the cylinder wouldn't open.  The last stuck bullet didn't clear the cylinder.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: MikeBjerum on May 28, 2009, 09:40:28 PM
I've seen several squibs at the range, and many times the shooter isn't sure what happened.  However, I have never seen any one shoot more than once after the squib.  Usually the light sound and recoil raises enough awareness of a possible issue that they either don't shoot a second shot or are doing double taps and squeeze the trigger while their brain is screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I'll go with "this is one lucky dude!"
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: tombogan03884 on May 28, 2009, 09:57:29 PM
I was thinking maybe an end mill on a Bridgeport...maybe not!

That was my first thought, but when I looked at it THAT time the end cuts didn't look square, but it definitly looks like a milling burr at the muzzle end.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: TAB on May 28, 2009, 10:18:12 PM
must have bee no  powder in those rounds.  if there had been it would have bluged the barrel.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: 1911 Junkie on May 28, 2009, 10:33:37 PM
Every time I see this thread come up I keep thinking it's about Squibby. 8)
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: m25operator on May 28, 2009, 10:38:26 PM
Lucky and inattentive, it does look like the initial cut was done on a mill, and then a belt sander, the deep cuts are fairly straight, but the grain is all one directional instead of circular, and some of the edges are slightly rounded + the burr.

Had this happen to myself, shooting light .38 loads in a plate match, a really fast stage with big targets, 18x24, up close, probably 5 shots in 2 seconds to 2.5 seconds, from the holster, had a squib, but the booger hook was on the bang switch going for the gold, 3rd target no hit, 4th target 2 hits. It did bulge the barrel right in the forcing cone area, the old 686 shoots just as good as it ever did, you can only tell when you run a cleaning brush down her, it gets real easy for a 1/4". No RO would have been fast enough in this instance, .15 second splits. Like M58 said.

Last summer, the match director for the steel match, called me out and asked if I could help on a stuck 1911. We went to our tool shed, which is not bad, and there was a shooter with a Kimber that the slide would not operate, and the mention of squibs came out, it took me 20 MINUTES TO GET THIS APART. I had to use a vise and lube to get the barrel bushing out, after that I worked the barrel back and forth, and finally was able to remove the barrel, it looked like a reamer, it split at every groove, and was bulged big time, there were 2 bullets stuck, a squib sent one far enough to get the bullet out of the way of the next round, but the RO did not stop him, and he chambered the next in a clearance drill, and I expect the next was an underload as well, as it did not blow the grips off, but definitely locked up the pistol. I do need a pic as once it was apart, it was damn near comical.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: Hazcat on May 28, 2009, 10:38:56 PM
Every time I see this thread come up I keep thinking it's about Squibby. 8)

I keep HOPING!  (with pictures! ;) )
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: Pathfinder on May 29, 2009, 06:25:41 AM
I keep HOPING!  (with pictures! ;) )

You're no kitty, you horn-dog!   ;D
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: Big Frank on May 29, 2009, 07:20:05 PM
I had a squib in my Jennings .22 and fired another round and it bulged the barrel halfway down. I was using Federal Lightning ammo and I wrote Federal a letter and they had me send the gun in. They gave me a check and I bought another pistol with the next consecutive serial number from the same dealer. I think they even sent me 2 boxes of good ammo. That was the only squib I ever had and I think I would have noticed if it was anything more powerful than a .22.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: twyacht on May 29, 2009, 08:00:06 PM
I squibbed a new Sig556 and cracked the barrel at the crown early last year. The suppressor kept it all together.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/SigCracks006.jpg)

Sig replaced it for $100.00. Not Warranty by any means. Point being, the shot was different, the recoil was different, and I didn't check before firing another round.

After several rounds in these photos it would be hard to NOT notice something funny.

Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: Swamp Yankee on May 29, 2009, 09:18:41 PM
I am no expert by any means but the barrel looks to have a slight bulge between the last two rounds. I almost had this happen with my 1911 but it did not feel right so I stopped firing and took it apart to find a round stuck in the barrel. It made me pay more attention to my reloads. Now I tripple check before I seat a bullet.

 Mike Mc
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: Ping on May 29, 2009, 09:27:24 PM
Makes my hair stand on end looking at five rounds in a barrel. Really shocked that no one was injured.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: True_Texan on May 30, 2009, 03:35:28 AM
One of the gun smiths I go to has several bulged, cracked and swelled barrels hanging from his wall. He even had one where someone left a cleaning rod in the barrel and then had fired the gun. It made a heck of a mess. Not long after seeing those, Mythbusters did an episode on squib loads. It just made me laugh that they thought it was impossible to do. Most gun 'myths' they do on there just irritate the hell out of me. Mostly because of the inaccurate terms they use for gun parts and bullet components.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: alfsauve on May 30, 2009, 08:57:40 AM
So besides a powderless loads, which I assume are accidental,  what loads do people try to make - on purpose.  [RHETORICAL QUESTION:   DON'T POST REAL LOADS]

The lightest I've ever loaded is the standard 3grs of Bullseye over 148gr wadcutter - .38spl.   People try to go lighter?  For anything lighter, I've gone to the Speer plastic bullets.  Nothing in-between.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: dj454 on May 30, 2009, 02:49:16 PM
So besides a powderless loads, which I assume are accidental,  what loads do people try to make - on purpose.  [RHETORICAL QUESTION:   DON'T POST REAL LOADS]

The lightest I've ever loaded is the standard 3grs of Bullseye over 148gr wadcutter - .38spl.   People try to go lighter?  For anything lighter, I've gone to the Speer plastic bullets.  Nothing in-between.

Yeah it makes you wonder, but the fact that those are jacketed rounds which your not supposed to download anyway I think it was a powder mismesure. Maybe loading with progresive equipment.
Title: Re: Now thats a squib load!
Post by: 1911 Junkie on May 30, 2009, 04:01:29 PM
Cowboy shooters seem to like loading light. Their only objective is to "ring" the steel targets, not knock them down.  Less recoil in a light load means faster shooting for them. (or so I've heard).