The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: philw on June 01, 2009, 03:44:10 AM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/us/31boston.html
BOSTON (AP) — The Boston Police Department wants to arm officers on neighborhood patrol with high-powered military assault weapons, but the mayor does not think it is a good idea.
The mayor, Thomas M. Menino, said he would not approve a Police Department plan to put semiautomatic M-16 rifles in the hands of regular patrol officers. But Mr. Menino said he was open to giving them to “specialized units.”
The police recently obtained 200 M-16s free from the military and had planned to give them to dozens of officers for their patrols after training them to use the rifles.
Some community leaders, however, criticized the lack of public notice and questioned the reasoning behind arming district officers with M-16s when the city’s SWAT team already had such weapons.
ok
just checking M16 = Full Auto/Select Fire AR15 = Semi Auto only
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2 points...
1 the people can't have them, why should the LEO?
2 even if the rifles were free and came with a truck load of free ammo. It would still cost big bucks to train and certify the officers with the new weapons.
kind of off tangent and was from another thread about this on another site.
is there anything a officer could not do with a AR that they could not do with a 30-30 lever gun?
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Clearly the writers research was done while watching Terminator because no one uses 'high-powered' to describe a M-16. The only thing I can think of is that the fire control was switched to semi-auto only by the military. And don't complain when some big shoot out ends in disaster, or some school gets taken over and you've just got some cops with pistols who decide they don't want to bum rush people with the most modest of long guns. And 'specialized units' only describes guys that take three times as long to get to the scene. If it makes them feel better about long guns they could always go with pump action Remingtons, some Texas LE do. That 7615 is the meanest looking pump rifle I've seen.
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2 points...
1 the people can't have them, why should the LEO?
2 even if the rifles were free and came with a truck load of free ammo. It would still cost big bucks to train and certify the officers with the new weapons.
kind of off tangent and was from another thread about this on another site.
is there anything a officer could not do with a AR that they could not do with a 30-30 lever gun?
OK
Point the first: I am in agreement. I am willing (reluctantly) to concede a need for a permit for full auto. But It's out of saftey reasons and should simply require demonstrating competance to handle the weapon, as the risk of collateral damage, if they are in hands of an idiot or someone untrained is too high. I learned this the hard way when a cadet just couldn't seem to detach his finger from the trigger of an M-60 during an FTX. It was a scary couple of seconds. Your basic point of citizens being allowed to carry pretty much anything LEOS carry is sound.
Point the second: Lever action 30-30's are nice. But I wouldn't choose to bring one to a gun fight if I had a choice. Let them use ARs or M-4s or whatever. I would prefer something with less penetration power in a densely populated urban evirionment, but that's a decision I'll leave to the LEO brass.
FQ13
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so what can the ar do better then the 30-30 that a LEO might use? I'm not talking about swat, I'm talking beat cops.
other then hold more ammo, I can't think of anything. if a beat cop actually needs that 30 rounds of ammo in his/her ar... there was a failure in training that officer. They are either missing or facing a mob... both of those should never happen, unless you f up.
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so what can the ar do better then the 30-30 that a LEO might use? I'm not talking about swat, I'm talking beat cops.
other then hold more ammo, I can't think of anything.
One thing. Being able to hold point of aim while firing a follow up shot.
FQ13
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Guys, this is the same PD that managed to kill a young, lovely, college coed outside of Fenway with a PAINTBALL gun.....these guys are typical of any large urban PD....dangerous and overpaid IMHO...
Mumbles Menino is running for re-election, he's a moron.....
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One thing. Being able to hold point of aim while firing a follow up shot.
FQ13
You need to watch Cowboys and TBD! Practice and knowledge of your weapon will make you deadlier with a lever action, it make you deadlier with a single shot, than ignorance and/or macho attitude associated with "scary black & high capacity."
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OK
Point the first: I am in agreement. I am willing (reluctantly) to concede a need for a permit for full auto. But It's out of saftey reasons and should simply require demonstrating competance to handle the weapon, as the risk of collateral damage, if they are in hands of an idiot or someone untrained is too high. I learned this the hard way when a cadet just couldn't seem to detach his finger from the trigger of an M-60 during an FTX. It was a scary couple of seconds. Your basic point of citizens being allowed to carry pretty much anything LEOS carry is sound.
Point the second: Lever action 30-30's are nice. But I wouldn't choose to bring one to a gun fight if I had a choice. Let them use ARs or M-4s or whatever. I would prefer something with less penetration power in a densely populated urban evirionment, but that's a decision I'll leave to the LEO brass.
FQ13
Please explain your unfounded statement that law abiding people shooting Full auto weapons were less safe in 1933 than they were in 1935, (before and after NFA )
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Please explain your unfounded statement that law abiding people shooting Full auto weapons were less safe in 1933 than they were in 1935, (before and after NFA )
If I had made that statement I would be happy to. As I didn't, and you are once more putting words into my mouth I will clarify what I did say.
That is, I do not want to see full autos restricted. However, as they are harder to handle safley than semis (and as a Marine you know this) I would be willing to concede that one would need to pass a safety course to own one.
FQ13
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You need to watch Cowboys and TBD! Practice and knowledge of your weapon will make you deadlier with a lever action, it make you deadlier with a single shot, than ignorance and/or macho attitude associated with "scary black & high capacity."
You got that right......
I've seen some scary fast folks with SA's and lever guns.....I've seen a couple of guys that shoot SxS double shotguns almost as fast as a pump. It all goes back to 'knowing your gun' and how to run it.
To paraphrase the old saying, 'fear the man who only has one well-worn gun....because he probably knows how to shoot it very well'.
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hardware solutions to software probs, just lead to more software probs.
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The stories that make the news, always state the LEO's are "outgunned".
Whatever happened to LEO's having tactical shotguns. I would hardly feel outgunned with a semi auto 12g. filled with buck-n-ball or rifled slugs.
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A local Sheriff Dept. was give M16's by the army. They were M16 A1's and they were select fire. Before issuing them the Sheriff had the armorer convert them to semi auto.
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A local Sheriff Dept. was give M16's by the army. They were M16 A1's and they were select fire. Before issuing them the Sheriff had the armorer convert them to semi auto.
A good move. We all know that sadly, most cops don't practice with their weapons nearly enough. Think about the last police shooting you can remember. The press doesn't make a big del about it but I nearly always am struck by the AMOUNT of shots fired in most of these. Its bad enough with 9mm, but .223? I remember the Diallo shooting where there was outrage (correctly so) that the police had fired 41 times at the uarmed man. To me, the bigger outrage was that they only hit him 5 times. Thats 36 bullets going God knows where. I am all in favor SWAT having select fire and cops having rifles. Barney Fife on the other hand, is fine with a semi.
FQ13