The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: rojawe on June 10, 2009, 03:44:37 PM
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just reported that Obama has ordered the FBI in Afghanistan to give the terroist Madeira Right when captured on the battle field. How fricking stupid is this, we are fighting them and we have to give them rights. The change the liberals voted for and Pure BS[V][xx(][:(]Killing our troops and we have to shake hands with them and let them go.
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just reported that Obama has ordered the FBI in Afghanistan to give the terroist Madeira Right when captured on the battle field. How fricking stupid is this, we are fighting them and we have to give them rights. The change the liberals voted for and Pure BS[V][xx(][:(]Killing our troops and we have to shake hands with them and let them go.
In another announcement today CENTCOM announced it will no longer be taking prisoners. ;)
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Miranda, Madeira is either an island chain or a wine. Other than that you are right on the mark. But does that ONLY apply to FBI ?
If it does, then it does make some sense as they are being arrested by US LEO's on US warrants, for trial in US courts, so arrest should comply with US law. Hopefully our TROOPS are still allowed to shoot the fu$#ers.
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Just shoot 'em all and be done with it. Problem solved
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I thought the FBI had no authority outside our borders!
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Hopefully our TROOPS are still allowed to shoot the fu$#ers repeatedly.
There, fixed it for ya. ;D
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I have an idea........let's pull out all of our troops and then turn the sand into glass.
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I have an idea........let's pull out all of our troops and then turn the sand into glass.
Got my vote!
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Got my vote!
You and I do seem to be of one mind more often than not. Suppose it's the angry old white guy syndrome? ;D
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I have an idea........let's pull out all of our troops and then turn the sand into glass.
Got my vote too. How soon can we start?
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I have an idea........let's pull out all of our troops and then turn the sand into glass.
Works for me, lets try to time for BO's next asskissing BJ good will tour.
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I thought the FBI had no authority outside our borders!
On the contrary they operate with full authority of US law where ever they are (unless treaties say otherwise and even then its iffy). The problem is that the host country might not recognize it and so they could be prosecuted under their laws. Thats why an Italian court wants to extradite a couple of CIA guys who grabbed a terror suspect in Italy. (we'll be extraditing them any day now, really ::)). Actually, as a fun bit of trivia this is where the 00 part of James Bond comes from. The Brits (before they reformed and would never ever ever do THAt again ::)) authorized some MI6 agents to break ANY (and we know which one they meant) foreign law in pursuit of a mission.
FQ13
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I have an idea........let's pull out all of our troops and then turn the sand into glass.
You know in a secret ballot:
Brits yes
Russians Yes
Iran yes
Turkey Yes
India yes
China yes
(Though the last two would only agree if we sort of accidently hit Pakistan too. Not a deal breaker for me.)
Doesn't sound like a bad idea, plus its a money saver.
FQ13
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On the contrary they operate with full authority of US law where ever they are (unless treaties say otherwise and even then its iffy). The problem is that the host country might not recognize it and so they could be prosecuted under their laws. Thats why an Italian court wants to extradite a couple of CIA guys who grabbed a terror suspect in Italy. (we'll be extraditing them any day now, really ::)). Actually, as a fun bit of trivia this is where the 00 part of James Bond comes from. The Brits (before they reformed and would never ever ever do THAt again ::)) authorized some MI6 agents to break ANY (and we know which one they meant) foreign law in pursuit of a mission.
FQ13
Like Tim, I thought that the FBI was purely domestic and that the CIA and others handled issues on foreign fronts. I know that the FBI can and does assist when other nations request help from them, but I always thought that that was the extent of their foreign activities. Learn something new every day.
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Miranda in Afghanistan. You have to be shitting me??? Where did this rumour come from? And if it is true, how do we enforce our laws, Miranda vs. Arizona, in a foreign country? I hope this is not true. >:(
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Like Tim, I thought that the FBI was purely domestic and that the CIA and others handled issues on foreign fronts. I know that the FBI can and does assist when other nations request help from them, but I always thought that that was the extent of their foreign activities. Learn something new every day.
Let me clarify here. The US courts will consider a US issued arrest warrant valid wherever it is served. Like wise, evidence collected is considered ok, no matter if the seach had country X's seal of approval or not, it just has to be documented and validated. The basic rule is that possesion is 9/10ths of the law. Its like a bail jumper busted by a bounty hunter. They can't say "I was kidnapped. Let me go". The judge doen't give a hoot how you got there. What matters is that you are there.
FQ13
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Carlos Lehder, the druglord connected to Pablo Escobar was arrested on a run way in Miami after being dumped handcuffed out of an unmarked plane. To this day no one is REALLY sure who got him, but the arrest was valid and he was convicted.
As to FBI operating overseas there have been several drug and terrorism arrests made overseas in the last 30 or 40 years.
For the most part we only hear about the screw ups, the many successes are, and should be, kept quite.
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Finally found a citation for this
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/?pageId=100731
Obama gives terrorists 'right to remain silent'
FBI ordered to read Miranda warning to U.S. enemies
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Posted: June 10, 2009
8:40 pm Eastern
By Chelsea Schilling
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
The Obama Administration has ordered the FBI and CIA to inform terrorists overseas that they "have the right to remain silent" before probing them for information to save American lives.
According to Weekly Standard report by Stephen F. Hayes, a senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee has revealed that "the Obama Justice Department has quietly ordered FBI agents to read Miranda rights to high value detainees captured and held at U.S. detention facilities in Afghanistan."
The Miranda warning, named after the 1966 Supreme Court case Miranda vs. Arizona, is a statement read by law enforcement officials to inform suspects of their rights. It states:
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense.
Hayes noted that former CIA Director George Tenet said Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad refused to cooperate with officials when he was captured March 1, 2003.
"I'll talk to you guys after I get to New York and see my lawyer," Mohammad demanded.
Mohammad did not enlist the services of a lawyer until months after his capture and interrogation. But, according to the report, Tenet wrote in his memoirs that intelligence extracted from the terrorist saved countless American lives.
"I believe none of these successes would have happened if we had had to treat KSM like a white-collar criminal – read him his Miranda rights and get him a lawyer who surely would have insisted that his client simply shut up," Tenet wrote.
Hayes said, "If Tenet is right, it's a good thing (Mohammad) was captured before Barack Obama became president."
Rep. Mike Rogers, former FBI special agent and U.S. Army officer, recently met with military, intelligence and law enforcement during his fact-finding trip to Afghanistan.
"The administration has decided to change the focus to law enforcement," Rogers told the Weekly Standard. "Here's the problem. You have foreign fighters who are targeting US troops today – foreign fighters who go to another country to kill Americans. We capture them … and they're reading them their rights – Mirandizing these foreign fighters."
Rogers told Hayes the Obama administration has never informed Congress of the Miranda policy.
"I was a little surprised to find it taking place when I showed up because we hadn't been briefed on it, I didn't know about it," he said. "We're still trying to get to the bottom of it, but it is clearly a part of this new global justice initiative."
The policy is part of a larger plan to replace the CIA-dominated method of covert arrest and interrogation with a significantly expanded role for the FBI and Justice Department in counter-terrorism operations. According to a Los Angeles Times report, agents will collect evidence to criminally prosecute all suspected terrorists.
In previous years, the Bush administration considered counter-terrorism operations an intelligence or military issue, not a law enforcement one, the Times states. But, under Obama's new "global justice" plan, the goal is to ensure that all suspected terrorists can be tried in a U.S. or foreign court of law.
"With many thousands of lives potentially in the balance, we did not think it made good sense to let the terrorists answer questions in their own good time," former Vice President Dick Cheney said in a May speech.
Many Republican lawmakers agree with Cheney.
"When they mirandize a suspect, the first thing they do is warn them that they have the 'right to remain silent,'" Rep. Pete Hoekstra, ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, told the Weekly Standard. "It would seem the last thing we want is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or any other al-Qaeda terrorist to remain silent. Our focus should be on preventing the next attack, not giving radical jihadists a new tactic to resist interrogation – lawyering up."
Rogers said even the International Red Cross has begun advising terrorist suspects to remain silent until they have representation.
"The International Red Cross, when they go into these detention facilities, has now started telling people – 'Take the option. You want a lawyer,'" he said.
Rogers told Hayes that the predicament may become confusing in a combat scenario:
The problem is you take that guy at three in the morning off of a compound right outside of Kabul where he's building bomb materials to kill US soldiers, and read him his rights by four, and the Red Cross is saying take the lawyer – you have now created quite a confusion amongst the FBI, the CIA and the United States military. And confusion is the last thing you want in a combat zone.
However, Richard Clarke, senior counter-terrorism official in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations, told the Los Angeles Times the changes are long overdue.
"We have to return to the practice that we had before of arresting terrorists and putting them on trial," he said, claiming U.S. ability to do so "has atrophied."
But Hayes notes that a suspected terrorist who remains silent will not provide the U.S. with vital information about impending attacks.
In his memoirs, Tenet wrote, "I am confident that we would have obtained none of the information he had in his head about imminent threats against the American people."
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Just shoot 'em all and be done with it. Problem solved
this about says what I think about 'em
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this about says what I think about 'em
Love that patch. Whatcha think PegLeg?
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this about says what I think about 'em
Love that patch. Whatcha think PegLeg?
one of the kids we had onboard up in the Persian Gulf had that on his vest.
as you can see, I liked it too. :D