The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Hazcat on June 19, 2009, 11:30:43 AM
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If you’re planning to apply for a job with the city of Bozeman, prepare to clean up your Facebook page.
As part of routine background checks, the city asks job applicants to provide their usernames and passwords for their social-networking sites. And it has been doing it for years, city officials said.
“Please list any and all, current personal or business Web sites, Web pages or memberships on any Internet-based chat rooms, social clubs or forums, to include, but not limited to: Facebook, Google, Yahoo, YouTube.com, MySpace, etc.,” states a city waiver form applicants are asked to sign. Three lines are provided for applicants to list log-in information for each site.
City officials maintain the policy is necessary to ensure employees’ integrity and protect the public’s trust, but the American Civil Liberties Union of Montana says they may be crossing the line.
“I would guess that they’re on some shaky legal ground with this and we would certainly welcome (the opportunity) to look at something specific from somebody who’s impacted,” Executive Director Scott Crichton said Thursday.
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He said Bozeman’s policy is unprecedented as far as he knows. ACLU’s legal counsel in Washington, D.C., had never heard of another city asking for log-in information for social networking sites as part of a job application.
“It’s like saying, ‘Let me look through your e-mails,’” Crichton said.
“The city certainly has access to publicly accessible information, but it gets pretty questionable when they start asking for password-protected things that are created to create privacy for communications between your friends and family,” he said. “That seems to be going too far.”
City Manager Chris Kukulski said the city checks the sites in order to ensure that employees who might be handling taxpayer money, working with children in recreation programs or entering residents’ homes as an emergency services worker are reputable and honest.
“It’s just one of the tools, like all the other tools, that we’ve used to do a thorough background check,” Kukulski said.
The city also checks credit reports, criminal history, references and past employment, among other things.
“We have to do some due diligence,” Kukulski said.
News of the city’s policy went ‘round the world via the Internet Thursday, triggering outrage and prompting comments by media outlets and bloggers. Celebrity gossip columnist Perez Hilton even weighed in on the news.
“Big Brother much?” he wrote. “We’ve heard of employers looking up potential employees on Facebook, but this seems a bit extreme.”
The Guardian, a major daily newspaper in London, named the city of Bozeman its “civil liberties villain of the week” on its Web site.
City Attorney Greg Sullivan said in light of concerns being expressed by the public, officials are looking at ways to alter the policy so that they might view an applicant’s online information without asking for log-in codes.
“We’ve already begun that discussion,” Sullivan said Thursday afternoon.
For example, city officials said they could ask applicants to log into their Facebook page and show it to a city official during the application process, or add the city as a “friend” so the officials could view the applicant’s page.
Bozeman has checked job applicants’ social networking sites for about three years, said Human Resources Director Pattie Berg. HR staff or supervisors in the department in which the job is sought are charged with reviewing the sites.
However, Bozeman’s city commissioners are exempt from the policy because elected officials aren’t subjected to the same background check as city employees, said Chuck Winn, assistant city manager.
City administrators first enacted the policy for police and fire department job applicants, said Mark Lachapelle, deputy chief of investigations for the Bozeman Police Department. The policy wasn’t presented to the Bozeman City Commission because the commission typically isn’t charged with setting personnel policies.
Winn said that in his former position as fire chief, he was sometimes responsible for looking at potential firefighters’ social-networking sites. He said he primarily looked for illegal activity.
“It’s not about taste or anything,” Winn said.
In at least one instance, an applicant’s social-networking site figured into disqualifying the person for a job, Winn and Lachapelle said. Lachapelle said information from the site was one of several components that contributed to the decision. He declined to discuss the case more specifically, citing privacy concerns.
http://bozemandailychronicle.com/articles/2009/06/19/news/10socialnetworking.txt
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Why does that not surprise me about Bozeman, even though I would expect this out of Missoula. Actually, I would expect this from California..
-Bidah
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I google all my employees from time to time. I have never fired one for what I've seen, but I have not hired people do to pics on thier face book site.( taking a hit from a bong)
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Why not just demand a key to their front door and all their banking info, too?
Sheesh! I occasionally look at my employee's myspace or facebook pages - we're also neighbors and friends - but I have absolutely no need to know what they do that isn't on public display.
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Big Brother on the march!!! What's next a DNA sample?
What people do on their own time is none of my business.
If I mistakenly hire a loser, it won't take long to find out and I'll fire a loser.
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I can't imagine why they would need the password to your accounts. Might as well ask for your bank account and PIN while they are at it.
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I can't imagine why they would need the password to your accounts. Might as well ask for your bank account and PIN while they are at it.
Date of birth, SSAN, city where you were born, mother's maiden name.
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I have nothing to hide but I won't be giving anything to them. Normally I'm pretty open about stuff but that is crossing the line. If they wanted to review it while in my presence maybe but they aren't getting my password.
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Read it again, boys and girls........it would also include membership in anything up to and including this forum. Could being pro 2-A be grounds for being denied a job, or am I just paranoid?
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I'd say I don't fell comfortable with that question, my private life is mine. You can't ask if someone's got kids, is married, or queer on an application and make a hiring decision base on that. I don't see how this is different. Now if they were to go and look for it on their own, what with it being public and all, that may be different. But f#$% that, I'd walk my ass outta there if I had the means to continue looking if they made a fuss about it.
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They say it won't be used against anyone for a hiring decision. Riiiiiiiight.
The anti-freedom people have learned very well how to be incremental. And, as I posted elsewhere, these folks also think in terms of years and decades. Their goal is the same one that tyrants have used throughout history - complete control.
Remember seat belts? Not even available, then optional, then included with the car, then the laws started. "Wear them, they may save your life" - and then "Wear them, they will save your life". And then - well, golly, we just know they will save your life so you have to wear them, but don't worry, we won't actually go looking for you not wearing your belts.
And now? "Click it or ticket!" and a national program that just ended June 1 to hunt for people without belts and use any excuse to stop them and ticket them.
So they say it won't be used against anyone for a hiring decision. That's today. In the future, guaranteed they will reject you for not answering.
We are already being controlled.
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Read it again, boys and girls........it would also include membership in anything up to and including this forum. Could being pro 2-A be grounds for being denied a job, or am I just paranoid?
HEHE if they get mine they will think I am a Nutter and get Home Land Security to arrest me on the grounds of being a terrorist
all forum memberships are 2 IT ones and the few are Firearms ;)
facebook hehe more firearms / family / and thoughts on going shooting
that is worse being an Aussie Gun loving bloke hehe ;)
that is BS completely
not a chance in hell I would give them my login's even though I got nothing to hide there is NO need for them to see
talk about an invasion privacy, and this is before they have the job from what I read.
call me paranoid what are they going to do with the info, what's to stop them posting anything using your details.
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I can tell you that security clearances may not ask for Facebook or MySpace pages but they will look for you online and look. It may not preclude you but it might make it harder to get cleared. A lot of employers are looking now. Pretty simple really, don't put anything on the web you wouldn't want you Mom to know about (along with the rest of the planet).
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I can tell you that security clearances may not ask for Facebook or MySpace pages but they will look for you online and look. It may not preclude you but it might make it harder to get cleared. A lot of employers are looking now. Pretty simple really, don't put anything on the web you wouldn't want you Mom to know about (along with the rest of the planet).
That's fine, But I would no more give out my log in info to this site than I would give out my ATM pin number and if any one doesn't like it they can get stuffed. I also carry when going to job interviews, you have to PAY me to give a crap about your "policies".
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An employer can't even ask for your SSN without a privacy act statement by law. Remember those?
This is a direct invasion of privacy but so is requiring that you pee in a bottle before your hired. What I do on my own time is nobody's business and if an employer I apply to doesn't like that, they can kiss my ass! They are not worth wasting my time with. If I choose to drink, smoke dope or snort oregano at home, tough shite!
I've googled myself and as far as I can tell, I only show up on my Navy Alumni site for secret squirrel types. Big deal....I don't belong to myspace, facebook or titty or twitty or twatter or whatever site Ashton Kutcher aka Mr. Demi Moore belongs too...
P.S. TAB, the last three POTUS have admitted to smoking dope, grow up! It's not that big a deal! Alcohol kills tens of thousands of people in this country every year. How many die from smoking pot?
Answer.....ZERO!
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Pretty sure if the right person gets passed over for a job and somehow hears it through the grapevine that it is because of facebook etc.. lawsuits to follow quickly.
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P.S. TAB, the last three POTUS have admitted to smoking dope, grow up! It's not that big a deal! Alcohol kills tens of thousands of people in this country every year. How many die from smoking pot?
Answer.....ZERO!
thats not true, many people get in car wrecks while on pot. driving stoned is the same as driving drunk.
I don't want a employee that gets high, period. I'm not going to hold it against them if they "tried it" in HS/college. smoking it as an adult is another story. Would you trust your safety to some one that gets high? How about give them access to your savings account?
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Wow! What's next? Turn over your diaries and journals, then install the provided microphone, so we may hear all private conversations?
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Would you trust your safety to some one that gets high? How about give them access to your savings account?
I don't diferentiate between the two, drunk or stoned your under the influence! As long as a person is sober or straight while on the job, I have no problem with what they do on their own time. Would I trust my safety to a drunk or a stoner? Nope! Drunk or stoned, you put my life in danger and I'll take you down, call the cops and make your life miserable!
As to the question about my savings account? Don't be rediculous, you have no idea how many people at the bank have access to your accounts, nearly everyone but the janitor can access your account. I know this because my daughter is a bank manager!
TAB, it's obvious your one of the younger posters, at least that's my impression. People that you could never imagine have smoked dope or still smoke and your naive to think otherwise. I have several friends that own and operate multi million dollar, high risk manufacturing companies who smoke dope every day but never, ever on the job!
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I don't diferentiate between the two, drunk or stoned your under the influence! As long as a person is sober or straight while on the job, I have no problem with what they do on their own time. Would I trust my safety to a drunk or a stoner? Nope! Drunk or stoned, you put my life in danger and I'll take you down, call the cops and make your life miserable!
As to the question about my savings account? Don't be rediculous, you have no idea how many people at the bank have access to your accounts, nearly everyone but the janitor can access your account. I know this because my daughter is a bank manager!
TAB, it's obvious your one of the younger posters, at least that's my impression. People that you could never imagine have smoked dope or still smoke and your naive to think otherwise. I have several friends that own and operate multi million dollar, high risk manufacturing companies who smoke dope every day but never, ever on the job!
you missed my point, you make a mistake on the job site, it comes out of my pocket. Theft is another prob in my indstury, if your addicted to something chances are good you will steal to feed that addiction. Theft cost me almost 20k last year.
but you are right, what yuou do on your time is non of my biz... would you let a methaddict in your home? he is sober on the clock... so you will let him in right?
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you missed my point, you make a mistake on the job site, it comes out of my pocket. Theft is another prob in my indstury, if your addicted to something chances are good you will steal to feed that addiction. Theft cost me almost 20k last year.
but you are right, what yuou do on your time is non of my biz... would you let a methaddict in your home? he is sober on the clock... so you will let him in right?
Your stretching here, there is a big difference between a person that smokes pot and an ADDICT! If you think it's only the folks that smoke pot that are stealing, your even more naive than I thought. It's usually the people you THINK you can trust that are screwing you the deepest!
I've managed people for years and I applaud your guts to have your own business and make a go of it alone but don't write off someone because you don't agree with their lifestyle.
For the sake of full disclosure, I'm an alcoholic and I also smoked pot for twenty years and believe me, booze wasn't too hard to quit, cigarettes were nearly impossible but I stopped smoking pot overnight. No problem at all, marijuana is NOT an addictive drug, never has been. While both alcohol and cigarettes are both highly addictive, both are legal in all fifty states with the exception of a few hundred counties across the US.
WTF!
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Your stretching here, there is a big difference between a person that smokes pot and a junkie!
WTF!
Watch it there, killer. >:(
Not all junkies are bad. ;D
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Watch it there, killer. >:(
Not all junkies are bad. ;D
My apologies kind sir! ;D (fixed it)
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Your stretching here, there is a big difference between a person that smokes pot and a junkie! If you think it's only the folks that smoke pot that are stealing, your even more naive than I thought. It's usually the people you THINK you can trust that are screwing you the deepest!
I've managed people for years and I applaud your guts to have your own business and make a go of it alone but don't write off someone because you don't agree with their lifestyle.
For the sake of full disclosure, I'm an alcoholic and I also smoked pot for twenty years and believe me, booze wasn't too hard to quit, cigarettes were nearly impossible but I stopped smoking pot overnight. No problem at all, marijuana is NOT an addictive drug, never has been. While both alcohol and cigarettes are both addictive, both are legal in all fifty states with the exception of a few hundred counties across the US.
WTF!
pot is addicting, not so much the drug, but the way it makes you feel is. I know lots of stoners( I work in construction,) when they don't get high they are a very diffrent person, exactly like some one quiting a addictive drug... granted they don't have the pyhsical signs, but every thing else is there. I didn't say the addicts are the ones stealing, just that chances are greater that they are. I fight the sterotype that we are all drunks and stoners every day.
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Well TAB, with the exception of my immediate family, most of the people I deal with every day are alcoholics, they just don't know it yet. Americans drink too much, smoke too much and fail to see the forest for the trees! To each his own as they say...
You and I will probably never agree on anything and that is something I'm not gonna lose any sleep over. You've placed more sterotypes in the last few paragraphs and have your own predisposed prejudices that no amount of rational argument is going to change.
I've been in the workforce for 37 years and been out of work for a total of four months. Pretty unreliable for an "Old Stoner"!
I must admit, I think I stole a cheap Bic pen by accident last week! ;D I'll be sure to return it in the morning and pay my penance!
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you never answered my question.
are you ok with letting a meth addict into your home to preform work as long as they are sober while there?
if not, why should my clients be?
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The issue was never addicts TAB, it WAS about marijuana.
No one would knowingly hire a methamphetamine addict. And no, I would not want one in my house any more than I would allow someone to smoke pot in my house or drink to excess in my house. If you don't like my rules, your not welcome into my domicile.
To tell you the truth, I do all the work around my house including plumbing and electrical work to avoid have ANY contractors inside because I don't trust contractors in general. I don't need to hire someone for something I'm perfectly capable of doing myself! If you ever run across one of those lists of 100 things that most guys SHOULD be able to do, I'm one of those guys!
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There are many things even a very handy person can not do, rather it be from a legal stand point ( asbestos removal for example)or can't do from logicstics stand point( anything that requires tools that are $$$$, jacking a house comes to mind.)
The part about not trusting contractors in general, is exactly what I'm talking about, I have to fight that every single day.
Its the reason why I will not hire people that , drink(aka drunks, not the guy that has a beer or two at a BBQ), smoke or do drugs. Even my back ground checks go well beyond what is legally needed to work with children in this state.
Its also the reason why all my employees must be clean shaven, tuck in thier shirts, have a collered shirt, no tats( had a prob with even having them covered). if you don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Well, if I ever had to jack up a house, I didn't do a very thorough job in selecting it when I bought it, my bad.
In MA, it's not legal to sell a home with asbestos in it and hasn't been legal since the early eighties. Not a lot left in homes but it is still a problem in the schools. With my nuclear background, I would have no problem performing the work though!
Don't get me wrong TAB, I support your right to hire whomever you choose. I'm not a believer in affirmative action, equal opprotunity or other laws intent on forcing an employers hand. Hire the person most qualified, period.
I'm a bit cynical I admit but, my experiences with specific contractors has been dismal. You appear to care about the client, good for you. If you ever lose sight of what's right and just, your lost. Best of luck too you...
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I don't drink, smoke or take drugs and I'm not giving up my personal privacy to an employer. Especially a government employer. That is ludicrous!
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thats not true, many people get in car wrecks while on pot. driving stoned is the same as driving drunk.
I don't want a employee that gets high, period. I'm not going to hold it against them if they "tried it" in HS/college. smoking it as an adult is another story. Would you trust your safety to some one that gets high? How about give them access to your savings account?
According to Larry Elders "10 things You Can't Say in America" That is not true. You have no basis for your statement.
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How did we get from a "City requires Facebook passwords" to potheads, meth heads and alcoholics??? TAB, marijuana is not addictive so you are wrong. Timothy, you are right about if a person is drunk or high, they are still under the influence.
What a person posts on their Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, DRTV, etc. is what that person may be thinking at the time. They may be pissed at their boss, rant and rave about co-workers, but we need to keep in mind that it is their right to express, digress and retreat or lashout on the internet as they see fit. They also know that once it is done, there is a record of it and they can review it. I know I have said some terrible things about people on the internet. It has caused me some friendships over the years. I tried to explain myself along the way. They either accept it and accept my apology or they don't. But I still have my right to vent. And so does everyone else.
We are not meant to agree with everything. Someone is going to be upset about a decision you have made. It is up to you whether you want to be a man/woman and stand your ground on your beliefs.
As for the Federal, State or Local Governments interferring with your right to express yourself, than I have a problem with it. Everyone has their right to free speech and freedom of expression. We have that and our gun rights at the moment. We need to enjoy it while we can. As for those who want our passwords and off the clock identities, I say "nay". And you should to.
Just Brian "Ping" Harless saying how it is. Hope you enjoyed it. If not, get over it!!!!
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you missed my point, you make a mistake on the job site, it comes out of my pocket. Theft is another prob in my indstury, if your addicted to something chances are good you will steal to feed that addiction. Theft cost me almost 20k last year.
but you are right, what yuou do on your time is non of my biz... would you let a methaddict in your home? he is sober on the clock... so you will let him in right?
Until and unless an employee's behavior affects their job, I don't care what they do in their off hours. Of course, I also recognize the difference between someone who enjoys a few beers or a joint at the pool after work and someone who can't get through the day without their drug of choice.
Remember that zero tolerance, black or white, no shades of grey analysis gives gun owners a problem, too. Some of us work in places that forbid carry on the job. Should their jobs be in jeopardy because they shoot on the weekend, or carry when they travel? I'm sure none of us would endorse drinking and shooting, but do we all unload every gun in the house if we take cold medicine or have a couple of beers while we watch the ball game at home?
Zero tolerance thinking is what gets kids expelled or suspended for drawing a picture of a gun, or having a replica M1 in their car for drill team. We shoud be encouraging common sense thinking and rules that actually address problems, not rules that reach far into our private lives.
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This thread is so far off topic it doesn't matter so I'll ask here, bbbean, what is that motto on your coat of arms ?