The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: Badgersmilk on June 20, 2009, 12:50:48 PM

Title: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 20, 2009, 12:50:48 PM
I know what your thinking!  But, there's more to it than you may think!

Good video.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/73718/mail-call-foxhole#s-p1-so-i1

Anybody get that radio working???  ;)
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Dakotaranger on June 20, 2009, 02:07:26 PM
Haven't watched the clip yet but I prefer dynomite
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 20, 2009, 03:09:50 PM
I've often wondered...  The technology of a Ditch Witch is beyond our military?  Even in WWII!  They really couldnt air drop a few of those in?

I guess it's their way of finding out how much each soldier REALLY wanted to live.  "Quality of fox hole = ... ". 

Is there time to dig a kitchen and aid station in mine?
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 20, 2009, 03:47:35 PM
Actually a serious question. WWII, SOP was to dig one before before bed, and fill it in, to deny to the enemy in the morning. This drastically slows advances. Fail to do so, and one artillery barrage and you're screwed. A whole lot of work, but the alternative is ugly. On the other hand, let the enemy advance a mile or three, hit them when they're exhausted from marching, adrenaline crash and digging.......
FQ13
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 20, 2009, 04:30:44 PM
A few WWII vets have told me they all crapped in their fox holes after leaving them.   
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: TAB on June 20, 2009, 04:45:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYTPH8mx1ZU
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Hazcat on June 20, 2009, 05:42:06 PM
simple answer  'fast and deep as you can with what ya got".
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: ratcatcher55 on June 20, 2009, 05:55:52 PM
A few WWII vets have told me they all crapped in their fox holes after leaving them.   

That's what the gernade sump is for.

Old Army joke:

2nd LT " Staff Sgt, where my foxhole?"

Staff Sgt " Right there Lt, just move the dirt and rocks out of your way."
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 20, 2009, 06:16:14 PM
I've often wondered...  The technology of a Ditch Witch is beyond our military?  Even in WWII!  They really couldnt air drop a few of those in?

I guess it's their way of finding out how much each soldier REALLY wanted to live.  "Quality of fox hole = ... ". 

Is there time to dig a kitchen and aid station in mine?

Wonderful idea, unless for some silly reason you don't want to advertise your exact location to everyone on the planet.
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: 2HOW on June 20, 2009, 07:42:59 PM
Ive had the pleasure of digging one, only one thank GOD.
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 20, 2009, 08:15:37 PM
Kidding aside...  Dont they even say in the video they didnt finish?  And they did bend at least one shovel.  Using a VERY little shovel to dig a VERY deep hole, in VERY little time after fighting & marching all day...  I'd risk the ditch witch.  ;D  And be rather happy to poo in it as opposed to filling it back in...   ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 20, 2009, 08:25:38 PM
I had the same thought in ROTC. My 2nd or 3rd FTX we got to dig our first fox hole. Actually just, just a scrape (I forget the military term, but there was one)  to hide behind, about two feet deep,body length, with the dirt in front as a berm. Luckilly for us, it was in the loamy soil of Va. However, we had been up since 5am run, marched, etc. However it was AFTER our first day on the grenade range tossing live ones. No one asked why we were doing this.
FQ13
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 20, 2009, 08:45:37 PM
 Slit trench.  And digging in is a heck of a lot easier than building a fort every night which is what the Roman legions did, complete with 4 gates  abatis and moat.
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Grizzle_Bear on June 23, 2009, 02:39:09 PM
"How do you dig a fox hole?"


QUICKLY!


Grizzle Bear
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 23, 2009, 02:46:31 PM
Even at Parris Island I never saw a foxhole dug to spec, of course there if you go deeper than 3 feet it's called a well.
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 24, 2009, 07:28:09 PM
Step 1:  Find 2 PFC's with shovels...

 ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 24, 2009, 08:05:17 PM
Step 1:  Find 2 PFC's with shovels...

 ;D
The only thing in the army lower is a cadet. I flee from that reasoning. Real men dig their own. The higher your rank, the better you ought to be at it, and its your duty (a leadership function if you will) to show us poor grunts how to do it correctly, Sir! (somehow that never caught on) :-\ ;D
FQ13
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Timothy on June 24, 2009, 08:07:43 PM
How do you dig a fox hole?

Don't!  Join the Navy!


 ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: TAB on June 24, 2009, 11:03:18 PM
How do you dig a fox hole?

Don't!  Join the Navy!


 ;D


How long can you tread water?
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 24, 2009, 11:51:59 PM

How long can you tread water?

I agree with TAB, It's a long SWIM home  ;D
Still got the Air Force beat though.   ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Timothy on June 25, 2009, 06:17:31 AM

How long can you tread water?

I got lots of floaty things from Wally World... ;D..besides.  I served 4 years and never set foot on a boat.  My brother served 23 years and never saw sea service until the 1st Gulf War.  My other brother served on a submarine....

Not all squids are destined for the high seas....some of us were just secret squirrels types....




Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Timothy on June 25, 2009, 07:42:31 AM
I agree with TAB, It's a long SWIM home  ;D
Still got the Air Force beat though.   ;D

I agree, the aircraft will generally fly all the way to the crash site!

 ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 25, 2009, 10:23:47 AM
Got a tank, all kinds of troops and still cant get the job done?  Happy to lend a hand.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3ec_1197366343


Say you got a sniper problem?  
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a0a_1197419833



Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Ping on June 25, 2009, 01:53:14 PM
I still have one of my lovely e-tools. From digging fox holes in the sand at Fort Dixx, New Jersey and filling sand bags for bunkers in Aviano, Italy, I absolutely loved it. For Air Base Ground Defense you had to dig the foxhole chest high. The secondary floor was for water when it rained. Poncho liners gave good cover during rainy weather. Sticks were placed at the corners for fields of fire. There were two airmen for each foxhole. Security Police was basicly the Air Force's infantry. Great time and would do it all again if I could. Of course we were also taught to dig in with our helmets. That absolutely sucked and was glad to see kevlar helmets when I got to Aviano and not the old steel pots that we had during training at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas and Ft. Dixx, New Jersey.

PS: Ft. Dixx (A shitty Army Base) taught me to appreciate that I was in the Air Force cause the food and barracks were better along with the smell of the women!!!  :o
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 25, 2009, 08:03:34 PM
The only thing in the army lower is a cadet. I flee from that reasoning. Real men dig their own. The higher your rank, the better you ought to be at it, and its your duty (a leadership function if you will) to show us poor grunts how to do it correctly, Sir! (somehow that never caught on) :-\ ;D
FQ13

As a Sgt of Marines I considered it my duty to ensure my junior Marines were trained and fit to dig in during wartime.

Feel free to replace "dig in" with "clean heads", "swab decks" and "wash Humvees" as appropriate.  ;)

Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 25, 2009, 08:09:39 PM
As a Sgt of Marines I considered it my duty to ensure my junior Marines were trained and fit to dig in during wartime.

Feel free to replace "dig in" with "clean heads", "swab decks" and "wash Humvees" as appropriate.  ;)


As a Private of Marines I considered it MY duty to avoid Sgt.s like you as much as possible.  ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 25, 2009, 08:22:09 PM

As a Private of Marines I considered it MY duty to avoid Sgt.s like you as much as possible.  ;D

Ah, a shirker and layabout. 

Or, as I called myself when the situation was reversed, a "Master of E&E".  ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 25, 2009, 08:27:31 PM
""Master of E&E".  Grin"

Not nearly "masterful" enough. Although volunteering for Guard duty kept me out of a lot of worse stuff.  ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Ping on June 25, 2009, 11:43:09 PM
Get a room guys. LOL
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Frosty on June 26, 2009, 12:34:31 AM
Old Army joke:

2nd LT " Staff Sgt, where my foxhole?"

Staff Sgt " Right there Lt, just move the dirt and rocks out of your way."

That's rightous and funny!
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 26, 2009, 01:06:26 AM
Old Army joke:

2nd LT " Staff Sgt, where my foxhole?"

Staff Sgt " Right there Lt, just move the dirt and rocks out of your way."

That's rightous and funny!
Only works if you edit to 1st Lt., any 2nd Lt. with  a brain is still afraid of the NCOs.
FQ13
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 26, 2009, 09:03:18 AM
Ping, It's funny you say you were glad to see the Kevlar helmets.  I got one early on when they came out and finally found somebody to trade with to get the old steel pot back!  We did some "destructive testing" on a few of both and fournd that anything more than a pistol shooting from 25 yards pierced both helmets readily.  The kevlar helmet would splinter and do VERY ugly things inside when shot.  Plus it weighed a HELL of a lot more than the old steel pot.  Even a little extra weight really adds up at the end of a 17hr day not being able to take the thing off for more than a minute or two.  You could cook inside the steel pot, dig with it, conduct scorpion fights in it, and even throw it onto the ramp without cracking it when your scorpion lost (what people will do for entertainment in the desert).  I still have mine, and all my chem. gear because they said.  "Oh, we cant take this, we dont have any record of it being issued to you."  when I out processed.  My buddy got to keep his M4 for the same reason!!!  Lucky $#$%& (#(@$(* #(%*&( *#(@*(@*$(*%!  There was STACKS of all kinds of gear outside that people just dumped because they couldnt turn it in and didnt want to get in trouble for still having it.  I figured I'd get in trouble either way, might as well keep it.
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 26, 2009, 10:28:58 AM
Ping, It's funny you say you were glad to see the Kevlar helmets.  I got one early on when they came out and finally found somebody to trade with to get the old steel pot back!  We did some "destructive testing" on a few of both and fournd that anything more than a pistol shooting from 25 yards pierced both helmets readily.  The kevlar helmet would splinter and do VERY ugly things inside when shot. Plus it weighed a HELL of a lot more than the old steel pot.  Even a little extra weight really adds up at the end of a 17hr day not being able to take the thing off for more than a minute or two.  You could cook inside the steel pot, dig with it, conduct scorpion fights in it, and even throw it onto the ramp without cracking it when your scorpion lost (what people will do for entertainment in the desert).  I still have mine, and all my chem. gear because they said.  "Oh, we cant take this, we dont have any record of it being issued to you."  when I out processed.  My buddy got to keep his M4 for the same reason!!!  Lucky $#$%& (#(@$(* #(%*&( *#(@*(@*$(*%!  There was STACKS of all kinds of gear outside that people just dumped because they couldnt turn it in and didnt want to get in trouble for still having it.  I figured I'd get in trouble either way, might as well keep it.

I'm glad it's NOT just me that thought that the Kevlar was heavier. You forgot to mention that you could also use the steel pot for a basin.
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 26, 2009, 10:56:11 AM
I'm glad it's NOT just me that thought that the Kevlar was heavier. You forgot to mention that you could also use the steel pot for a basin.
One of the big advantages of kevlar, in theory, is shock absorbtion. Its supposed to be better for blast damage, falling on your head and non-pentrating shrapnel. Based solely on the large numbers of blunt trauma to the brain we're seeing, survey says it works (kind of) as a lot of those guys would just have been dead earlier. Sanjay Gupta, a neuro surgeon, did an interesting piece on the effectiveness of modern armor on CNN a year or two ago. His focus was on all the new problems his caused for military doctors, who just weren't prepared to treat what would have been fatal wounds, like traumatic brain injury. There wasn't a lot on the armor itself and why it did or didn't do the job.
FQ13
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: tombogan03884 on June 26, 2009, 10:59:38 AM
One of the big advantages of kevlar, in theory, is shock absorbtion. Its supposed to be better for blast damage, falling on your head and non-pentrating shrapnel. Based solely on the large numbers of blunt trauma to the brain we're seeing, survey says it works (kind of) as a lot of those guys would just have been dead earlier. Sanjay Gupta, a neuro surgeon, did an interesting piece on the effectiveness of modern armor on CNN a year or two ago. His focus was on all the new problems his caused for military doctors, who just weren't prepared to treat what would have been fatal wounds, like traumatic brain injury. There wasn't a lot on the armor itself and why it did or didn't do the job.
FQ13

Did they mention that the increased weight has caused spinal problems to become just about universal among US troops deployed. They are measured before and after deployment, troops have been found to have lost as much as 3 inches in height.
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: fightingquaker13 on June 26, 2009, 11:07:04 AM
Did they mention that the increased weight has caused spinal problems to become just about universal among US troops deployed. They are measured before and after deployment, troops have been found to have lost as much as 3 inches in height.
That is frightening, but believable. I had friend in college who was doing Marine PLS. He wanted to fly, but was 1/2" too tall. On the advice of a seargant, he wore a seventy pound pack everywhere but the shower for three weeks before the flight physical. It worked.
FQ13
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Badgersmilk on June 26, 2009, 01:50:20 PM
Directly from the "Combat Skills" manual:
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/foxhole.jpg?t=1246042076)

Everything but indoor plumbing:
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/foxhole2.jpg?t=1246042185)

Better pack a lunch when your digging that puppy!!!

My back hurts looking at the picture. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Sgt Z Squad on June 28, 2009, 10:47:06 PM
I know what your thinking!  But, there's more to it than you may think!

Good video.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/73718/mail-call-foxhole#s-p1-so-i1

Anybody get that radio working???  ;)

Us old Jarheads dig fighting holes only.. :P
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Big Frank on July 26, 2009, 04:57:27 PM
How do you dig a foxhole? Very slowly when the ground is frozen to 17 below zero. We had 2-person foxholes that were unlike anything in the videos. We had to stay in the foxholes and one person could sleep while the other was on guard duty.
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 26, 2009, 05:03:24 PM
Well first you get her to take off,.....
Whoops, wrong Forum  ;D
Title: Re: How do you dig a fox hole?
Post by: Ksail101 on August 09, 2009, 10:39:58 AM
How to dig a Fox-Hole:      

(I didnt watch the clip so I dont know what it says)

1. Get a Shovel (most likely you will be using the smallest worst shovel ever your military entrenching Tool)
2. Pick the shortest guy in your company ( You have to dig to the shortest persons armpits) But your SGT, will make you find someone  roughly your same height. They know the ticks too.
3. Start digging a rectangle to the width and length of you and your battle buddy so you can stand shoulder to shoulder and back to back in the hole.
4. When you are sick of digging, you are only a foot in. So Keep going.
5. When you are done with hole go to the pile of dirt you just dug and start filling sand bags.
6. Get branches for rafters for sandbag roof. So the branches need to be stout here is where combat hatchets come into play. (If your lucky you get plywood but dont hold your breath)
7. Build roof with sandbags and branched and I use sandbags about three high to build a wall around the foxhole and put the roof on top of that. Make sure you are able to shoot out the front and be able to view around the corners of your hole.
8. Crawl in Foxhole and learn to sleep standing up. ;D

Thats my foxhole, hope you never have to build one. I have had to build them in Louisiana and Georgia in July. Not the funnest thing to do