The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fightingquaker13 on June 23, 2009, 02:14:48 PM
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OK. My Saiga deal fell through due to no dealer being willing to accept the transfer. I have however found my choice of two very good deals.
A DPMS AR Sportical for $569, $600 with three mag pull 30rnd. My other alternative is an AK Gp 1975 by Century with 4 hungarian mags for the same dollar, but I have to act quicly. I really have little preference between AKs and ARs, more short range stopping power vs better accuracy.It all comes out in the wash. The DPMS does not have a forward assist (which I never used anyway in the army) no dust cover (maybe, but probably not an issue) and no brass deflector (being a lefty maybe an issue)M. Beyond that its mil spec with an M4 stock and 16 inch barrel (not chrome lined, but neither is the AK). Please help a brother out!
FQ13 who wants to have problems like this everyday
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I'd go with the AR FQ13
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Ditto. AR
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Posted this as 2 posts on the lever carbine thread:
Get the AR while it may not be as idiot proof as an AK brass cased ammo is more common, AK is almost all imported steel cased, can't reload it and Customs could cut off supply completely.
Besides, the AR has more after market accessories and is simple to change calibers also it and the 5.56 cartridge are capable of better accuracy.\
You can have one "GUN" with uppers for several calibers, carbine or longrange set ups and all you have to do is pop 2 push pins.
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AR's = Trendy and popular at shooting ranges because movies, and ANYTHING that was used by our military is instantly SUPER popular with everybody that just wants to play soldier.
AK's = Most reliable weapon you'll ever own, enough of an improvement that when our troops in Iraq had the oportunity (mostly special forces teams, contractors, or the like were the only ones allowed) they used AK's and left AR's at the base due to better penetration, and the mini-AK's they were finding availlable being more practical from in a vehicle, more reliable, and better for clearing rooms. All around a better weapon unless trendiness, or shooting rodents is the priority.
Remington sells brass reloadable 7.62 x 39 ammo I've seen most everywhere in a mostly white box with green labels, its the same price as the .223 ammo they sell for a box of 20. I think they call it UMC or something like that. They list it on their site though.
AK's and AR's really cant possibly be compared to one another. Ones all about form, ones all about function. Just depends whats more important to you. IT"S YOUR MONEY BEING SPENT.
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Badger....you're about two hours behind the times. He bought the AR at 3:53pm.....
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They ARE prettier!
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They ARE prettier!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. ;D Still I really don't have too much preference between the two platforms. Or, more accurately, there are things I like and dislike about each. In the end my preference for the AK was driven partially by about a $400 price difference. If I had to choose between two at the same price, I'd flip a coin. Ruggedness and knockdown power versus accuracy and ease of attaining ammo and parts. It really is a wash as far as I'm concerened and I'd be happy with either. In this case it came down to me trusting DPMS more than Century.
FQ13
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LOOK, if you want to shoot poodles get the AR. If you want a fighting rifle go with the AK. Better than that, get a AR with a .308 upper and you have the best of both worlds. Just depends on what application you're trying to fill. ;D
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LOOK, if you want to shoot poodles get the AR. If you want a fighting rifle go with the AK. Better than that, get a AR with a .308 upper and you have the best of both worlds. Just depends on what application you're trying to fill. ;D
Well...I never have trusted poodles, they always seemed kind of shifty......Seriously, what would I need to switch to go to a .308? The AR10 is my dream rig. I know I nedd new mags, and an upper receiver, but I don't really know what is meant by that term as it is used on gun boards. Are we talking just the mag receiver and barrel or the whole FCG or what? I am rellying on 20 year old memories of M16s and the terminology sometimes escapes me. This is a project I would like to undertake though, as funds become available, and I think I can trust the DPMS lower as a base. Your thoughts would be welcome.
FQ13
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......Seriously, what would I need to switch to go to a .308? The AR10 is my dream rig.FQ13
Well, to start, you would need an AR 10. ;D
The receiver you have won't work. The opening for the mag is not wide enough to convert.
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Well, to start, you would need an AR 10. ;D
The receiver you have won't work. The opening for the mag is not wide enough to convert.
DOH! Oh well, the .556 is obviously good enough for government work. ;D Is this going to be a problem stepping down to a .22 cal conversion? I thought this would be a great way to save money at the range and all I would need was new mags, a new upper and maybe a new barrel, or am wrong here as well? This was a buying decsion I had less than an hour to make and it was not researched as well as I normally do.
FQ13
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DOH! Oh well, the .556 is obviously good enough for government work. ;D Is this going to be a problem stepping down to a .22 cal conversion? I thought this would be a great way to save money at the range and all I would need was new mags, a new upper and maybe a new barrel, or am wrong here as well? This was a buying decsion I had less than an hour to make and it was not researched as well as I normally do.
FQ13
.22 conversions are very doable. Probably easiest to have a dedicated .22 upper. But after you do that, what's another $300 to have a complete gun? ;)
Some of the guys I shoot with have talked about converting to .300 Whisper, not sure which lower they had, I think 5.56.
To shoot .50 Beowolf all you need is a barrel and a 7.62 bolt/carrier. That is a fun round. You can use your standard magazine, it just becomes single stack.
Since you love pistol caliber carbines, 9mm conversion is also doable.
Try doing that with an AK. :P
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Heck i like AR's but if i had choice AK47 or AK74. Mags are more reliable and function is unquestionable. Wait ammo is cheap and eazy to find.
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She wears military cold weather gear, and is standing her ground. If the AR doesnt jam, the parka should be enough to stop 5.56 penetration... She bites pretty hard!
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1000820.jpg?t=1246277919)
Sorry FQ. Had to post it. ;)
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Full auto .22LR conversion... Easily best use for AR! Run Mr. squirrel! RUN!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR0Yj24SCUI&feature=related
Hopefully nobodys walking though the woods back there!
One note on the AR10. At least my DPMS. The whole gun is "scaled up" from the size of an AR15 / M16. Problem here is if you try to do what your trained and keep your finger out of the trigger guard until your ready to shoot you'll likely find yourself far MORE likely to accidently fire off a round! The front edge of the trigger guard is far enough away from your palm that you dont get a very good grip on the gun. With a little jerk or other sudden movement your finger will QUICKLY slip off the edge of the trigger guard and onto the trigger... BOOM!!! Off goes your foot! I've changed out the pistol grip on my gun with nearly every brand you can think of with no change, the opening for the trigger is just to long... VERY unsafe imo.
With the HUGE variety of ammunition available in .308 you'll also find there picky on what you feed them if your interested in emptying a clip without at least 1 jam (rare for most AR's I've every shot).
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Badger,
You're still the same dumb shit that nobody could stand when you first started posting here. Guess some things never change. You have reliability issues with an AR? Maybe it's the operator and not the gun. Can't kill anything with a 5.56? Maybe you shouldn't shoot it in the ass. Oh yeah, I forgot what a outstanding round the 7.62x39 is. ???
All your arguements are lame. "I'll take an AK because I can get dropped naked anywhere in the world and still find mags and ammo". And that is going to happen when? Let me buy you the ticket. Guess what? You are not in some third world shit hole that could only afford AKs. You are more likely to find AR's and AR mags and ammo here in the good old USA. Get over it. I don't know what kind of crappy AR's you've shot, but mine function just fine. I'll take accuracy AND reliability any day. IF my AR failes, it won't matter, I only need one shot to begin with. The sad thing in all this is that people might actually listen to you. If I want an AK, I'll shoot somebody that has one and take theirs.
You are a wanna be Rambo with a big mouth and no knowlege (and I'm guessing skill) to back it up.
You wanna take me to task, just bring it.
Sorry for the dumb shit part, the rest, not so much. ;)
Rant over.
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:) Feel all better now? The AR's I've handled were most all military issue. Baby them enough, and they'll make it through a couple magazine (2-3 without a jam), but it was very rare. I've had much better luck with the DPMS I bought new. And so long as you feed it balistic tip ammo. It'll usually make it though 3 magazines or so before a jam. Combat reliability??? If you say so. Its your life. Good luck!
I am curious if anybody has heard why AR's were designed to dump fouling (dirty gas, whatever you want to call it) directly into their actions??? Is it just a "we need to be different" thing?
I know it stinks being convinced something is "the best thing ever"!!! Dumping a TON of money into it, and finding out it was all propoganda, politics, advertising, and ignorant hype... Unclinch and accept it for what it is! A respectably accurate semi-auto rifle thats PERFECT for killing ground squirrels.
If you really need press to guide your purchases, hunting magazines usually say much the same thing. Not many suggest the round for game as big as a coyote if looking for a clean kill though. It IS WHAT IT IS.
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Badger,
You're still the same dumb shit that nobody could stand when you first started posting here. Guess some things never change. You have reliability issues with an AR? Maybe it's the operator and not the gun. Can't kill anything with a 5.56? Maybe you shouldn't shoot it in the ass. Oh yeah, I forgot what a outstanding round the 7.62x39 is. ???
All your arguements are lame. "I'll take an AK because I can get dropped naked anywhere in the world and still find mags and ammo". And that is going to happen when? Let me buy you the ticket. Guess what? You are not in some third world shit hole that could only afford AKs. You are more likely to find AR's and AR mags and ammo here in the good old USA. Get over it. I don't know what kind of crappy AR's you've shot, but mine function just fine. I'll take accuracy AND reliability any day. IF my AR fails, it won't matter, I only need one shot to begin with. The sad thing in all this is that people might actually listen to you. If I want an AK, I'll shoot somebody that has one and take theirs.
You are a wanna be Rambo with a big mouth and no knowledge (and I'm guessing skill) to back it up.
You wanna take me to task, just bring it.
Sorry for the dumb shit part, the rest, not so much. ;)
Rant over.
Comment of the day award!
(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/604777/2/istockphoto_604777_miniature_trophy_blank.jpg)
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In 30 years of firing military AND civilian AR's the only time I've had or seen problems was firing blanks, I have heard that suppressors crud them up quick as well, otherwise clean it at the end of the day and no problems. Never had Mag issues either, that includes 3 years running range details in the National Guard. All the problems I saw were due to the nut behind the trigger.
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The only times I remember having issues with the M4/ AR 15 is at a training course were we were forbidden to clean the rifle. At about 1200 rounds on a the second rainy & muddy day I started to gum up and have failures to extract. At 1400 rounds I locked the bolt back and wiped out the chamber with my gloved finger. It ran fine after that.
The AK is a very durable weapon and I would not feel under gunned if I had to use one. It does not lend its self to markmanship however.
As for contractors using AK's, it's a matter of logistics. The weapons and ammo are already in theater and do not need export licensing.
SF using AK's? I don't know but I imagene it's to blend in. They tend to bring everything they can get their hands on.
I have had problems related to AR aftermarket magazines.
I have seen basket full of problems related to Wolf and S&B ammo.
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What is S@B? Tell me before I buy some.
Thanks
FQ13
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http://www.sb-usa.com/
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What is S@B? Tell me before I buy some.
Thanks
FQ13
Sellier and Bellot, I think it is Czech. I've never used their .223/5.56 so I can't comment on it. You definitely want to avoid Wolf though, Because of the steel case it doesn't seal the chamber as well as brass cased ammo, some people have good luck with it in AR's but not enough to make it worth tying up any money in it.
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Thanks. I will know to avoid it. I want some cheap bulk, but I have been warned off Wolf (though it is ok in AKs). I shall also steer clear of S@B. No sense in buying 500 rounds of aggravation.
FQ13