The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: 2HOW on June 26, 2009, 12:46:18 PM
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http://uruknet.com/?p=m55502&hd=&size=1&l=e
June 25, 2009
Recently, an American Civil Liberties Union report pointed out, "Anti-terrorism training materials currently being used by the Department of Defense (DoD) teach its personnel that free expression in the form of public protests should be regarded as 'low level terrorism�." [1]
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Hell, I'm sure that in some folks minds, we are all low-level terrorists.
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I just want to state here that the ACLU is a solid group. I know that many here (myself included) don't like their extreme stance on seperation of church and state, and they have been dissapointingly quiet on the 2A (that might change as cases on incorporation move to SCOTUS post Heller, but we will see). I do know, that this country would be worse off for not having them, particularly in regards to 1A issues. Make your own call, but I choose to support them, as well as the NRA (even though both annoy the heck out of me at times), as the only two political organizations I give money to.
For what its worth.
FQ13
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The ACLU
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/UserDocs/ACLUbrochure.pdf
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I just want to state here that the ACLU is a solid group. I know that many here (myself included) don't like their extreme stance on seperation of church and state, and they have been dissapointingly quiet on the 2A (that might change as cases on incorporation move to SCOTUS post Heller, but we will see). I do know, that this country would be worse off for not having them, particularly in regards to 1A issues. Make your own call, but I choose to support them, as well as the NRA (even though both annoy the heck out of me at times), as the only two political organizations I give money to.
For what its worth.
FQ13
No they have NOT, they are actively ANTI 2A and filed a brief with SCOTUS OPPOSING Heller. the American Communist Liars Union have been proven to have received money through KGB front organizations, supported Flag desecration, and censorship through their support of "anti hate speech" programs, they are as far left as any PAC in this country.
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The ACLU
http://www.alliancedefensefund.org/UserDocs/ACLUbrochure.pdf
Sorry Haz, the link isn't working.Try again.
FQ13
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I just want to state here that the ACLU is a solid group. I know that many here (myself included) don't like their extreme stance on seperation of church and state, and they have been dissapointingly quiet on the 2A (that might change as cases on incorporation move to SCOTUS post Heller, but we will see). I do know, that this country would be worse off for not having them, particularly in regards to 1A issues. Make your own call, but I choose to support them, as well as the NRA (even though both annoy the heck out of me at times), as the only two political organizations I give money to.
For what its worth.
FQ13
The ACLU has been anything but quiet about 2A. In the aftermath of Heller they decried that the SCOTUS made a grave mistake and that they vehemently disagreed with the ruling. This spawned jokes such as "How does the ACLU count to 10? 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10"
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Sorry Haz, the link isn't working.Try again.
FQ13
It works for me.
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I just want to state here that the ACLU is a solid group. I know that many here (myself included) don't like their extreme stance on seperation of church and state, and they have been dissapointingly quiet on the 2A (that might change as cases on incorporation move to SCOTUS post Heller, but we will see). I do know, that this country would be worse off for not having them, particularly in regards to 1A issues. Make your own call, but I choose to support them, as well as the NRA (even though both annoy the heck out of me at times), as the only two political organizations I give money to.
For what its worth.
FQ13
Yes, solidly against anything and everything that made this country great. They have been waging war on the US Constitution - under the 1984-ish doublespeak rubric of "saving" it in order to destroy the very thing they purport to defend.
BTW, get a spell-checker, college-boy. "seperation" is spelled "separation". I'm not even touching "dissapointingly"
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Hell, I'm sure that in some folks minds, we are all low high-level terrorists.
Fixed it for you, Peg. ;D
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Yes, solidly against anything and everything that made this country great. They have been waging war on the US Constitution - under the 1984-ish doublespeak rubric of "saving" it in order to destroy the very thing they purport to defend.
BTW, get a spell-checker, college-boy. "seperation" is spelled "separation". I'm not even touching "dissapointingly"
As far as spelling, I have old fat fingers. The ACLU is, as I said, your own call, but I am pretty much as fanatical on the 1A as the 2A. Your mileage may vary. Do I get pissed at them at times, yes. Would you want to live in a country where someone was not standing up for free speech rights and the rights of the accused (particularly under Holder), I hope the answer is no.
FQ13
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Fixed it for you, Peg. ;D
Thanks!
Been mowing in the heat and slipped a little there. ;D
As far as spelling, I have old fat fingers. The ACLU is, as I said, your own call, but I am pretty much as fanatical on the 1A as the 2A. Your mileage may vary. Do I get pissed at them at times, yes. Would you want to live in a country where someone was not standing up for free speech rights and the rights of the accused (particularly under Holder), I hope the answer is no.
FQ13
That's what the 2nd Amendment was supposed to be for to start with.......to protect us from losing the others.
The ACLU is just like most other organizations that are there to "help the helpless"...... made up of people that make a living out of stirring the pot just to give themselves a 'cause' in order to have a job.
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http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=7265.0
The day after this story broke on Fox news the DoD took this off their forms.
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IMHO the ACLU has done far more harm to our country than good. They have helped to affirm some rights that we already had. They have helped the minority to overrule the majority far too many times.
They pulled the first string that began to unravel the fabric of our society.
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Yes, solidly against anything and everything that made this country great. They have been waging war on the US Constitution - under the 1984-ish doublespeak rubric of "saving" it in order to destroy the very thing they purport to defend.
BTW, get a spell-checker, college-boy. "seperation" is spelled "separation". I'm not even touching "dissapointingly"
See FQ, it isn't just me, your spelling ALMOST sucks as bad as TABs (Another College grad ??? ? ) Either IE Spellcheck or Firefox THEIR FREE.
As far as spelling, I have old fat fingers. The ACLU is, as I said, your own call, but I am pretty much as fanatical on the 1A as the 2A. Your mileage may vary. Do I get pissed at them at times, yes. Would you want to live in a country where someone was not standing up for free speech rights and the rights of the accused (particularly under Holder), I hope the answer is no.
FQ13
I would RATHER live in a country were the rights of the LAW ABIDING had some defenders, Fu#k the accused.
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I would RATHER live in a country were the rights of the LAW ABIDING had some defenders, Fu#k the accused.
Tell me that the day after you are arrested for something.
FQ13
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Tell me that the day after you are arrested for something.
FQ13
And I'm sure if I get arrested for, say, CCW, the ACLU is going to be beating a path to my door to defend my 2A rights.
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Tell me that the day after you are arrested for something.
FQ13
Are you REALLY that naive ? The only purposes the ACLU serves is getting blacks and illegal aliens off the hook.
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And I'm sure if I get arrested for, say, CCW, the ACLU is going to be beating a path to my door to defend my 2A rights.
if your a minority, from the "intercity", don't speak english, are here illegally and were arrested by white cops... I'd say your chances are pretty good.
;D
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if your a minority, from the "intercity", don't speak english, are here illegally and were arrested by white cops... I'd say your chances are pretty good.
;D
WEll, let's take inventory: white, rural, speak something resembling english, born here.........I'm fornicated!! ;D
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WEll, let's take inventory: white, rural, speak something resembling english, born here.........I'm fornicated!! ;D
I don't thnk I've ever seen that word used as an adverb before. Congrats.
FQ13
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WEll, let's take inventory: white, rural, speak something resembling english, born here.........I'm fornicated!! ;D
kalifornicated! It's what's happening to the rest of the country.
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As far as spelling, I have old fat fingers. The ACLU is, as I said, your own call, but I am pretty much as fanatical on the 1A as the 2A. Your mileage may vary. Do I get pissed at them at times, yes. Would you want to live in a country where someone was not standing up for free speech rights and the rights of the accused (particularly under Holder), I hope the answer is no.
FQ13
I firmly believe that if the ACLU never existed, there would still be groups and individuals that would stand up for our rights, but they've hurt us all by treating OUR rights with different levels of importance, thereby breaking up the Constitution as they see fit, and allowing the pseudo-intellectuals to believe that they are an authority.
I would definitely want to live in a country where someone would stick up for my rights and I believe that this group would and probably also the NRA.
BTW, what disagreements have you had with the NRA?
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I firmly believe that if the ACLU never existed, there would still be groups and individuals that would stand up for our rights, but they've hurt us all by treating OUR rights with different levels of importance, thereby breaking up the Constitution as they see fit, and allowing the pseudo-intellectuals to believe that they are an authority.
I would definitely want to live in a country where someone would stick up for my rights and I believe that this group would and probably also the NRA.
BTW, what disagreements have you had with the NRA?
As distrustful as I am of federal LEOs in general, the jackbooted thugs thing was a bridge too far. Likewise, I hate the fact that they endorse GOP challengers to pro-2A democrats. This indicates that:
A. They have an agenda larger than what I'm sending them money for
B. That they are too stupid to understand that unless 2A issues are bipartisan, that we live or die by which ever party wins the next election (probably on issues having nothing to do with the 2A). LaPierre is making decisions "above his pay grade" because he likes being invited to sit at the grownups table in the GOP. Thats not what I'm paying him for. He should be as cozy with Reid as McConnenel (sic), because what I'm writing that check for is to advance ONE issue, not a party platform. Either get that, or find another line of work. The man is a well intentioned whore, but a whore none the less because he's gone beltway.
Rant over
FQ13
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FQ posted " As distrustful as I am of federal LEOs in general, the jackbooted thugs thing was a bridge too far. Likewise, I hate the fact that they endorse GOP challengers to pro-2A democrats. "
First off the "Jack booted Thugs" comment was dead on. Look at Waco, that was murder brought on by them trying to rail road people who had not broken the law. Their motive ? A bigger piece of the budget pie. Read the series Solder of Fortune Magazine did on it, during the Clinton admin the Lamestream media gave it awards for journalism, (I forget what one, maybe a Peabody ? ) Even Congress referred to them as a " Rogue Agency".
As for supporting Republicans over Dems, DUH, when was the last time a Rep. proposed ANY type of gun control legislation. The D party as a whole sucks on every issue thinking Americans care about.
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I firmly believe that if the ACLU never existed, there would still be groups and individuals that would stand up for our rights, but they've hurt us all by treating OUR rights with different levels of importance, thereby breaking up the Constitution as they see fit, and allowing the pseudo-intellectuals to believe that they are an authority.
I would definitely want to live in a country where someone would stick up for my rights and I believe that this group would and probably also the NRA.
BTW, what disagreements have you had with the NRA?
They are called citizens, what do you THINK our guns are for ?
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FQ posted " As distrustful as I am of federal LEOs in general, the jackbooted thugs thing was a bridge too far. Likewise, I hate the fact that they endorse GOP challengers to pro-2A democrats. "
First off the "Jack booted Thugs" comment was dead on. Look at Waco, that was murder brought on by them trying to rail road people who had not broken the law. Their motive ? A bigger piece of the budget pie. Read the series Solder of Fortune Magazine did on it, during the Clinton admin the Lamestream media gave it awards for journalism, (I forget what one, maybe a Peabody ? ) Even Congress referred to them as a " Rogue Agency".
As for supporting Republicans over Dems, DUH, when was the last time a Rep. proposed ANY type of gun control legislation. The D party as a whole sucks on every issue thinking Americans care about.
Tom
I stood outside that compound in Waco, with about 50 other Libertarians (not conservatives, but Libertarians) to protest Waco, so don't give me crap about it. But the larger point is this. If we make the debate GOP=pro Gun, Democrat=anti-gun, guess what, we lose; because guns don't even register on most people's radar when they vote. We need people like Tester and Bauces and Webb, and yes Reid, because without them, the economy, the war in Iraq or something else will determine the future of the 2A. This isn't higher math, just reality.
FQ13
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Tom
I stood outside that compound in Waco, with about 50 other Libertarians (not conservatives, but Libertarians) to protest Waco,
Find the series of articles, what you could see even if you were allowed fairly close isn't a 1/10th of the things that happened.
Stuff like Perjury, lying on warrants, destroying evidence.
Did you know that as the Jack Booted thugs were pouring out of the cattle cars Koresh opened the front door and asked CALMLY, what it was about, and was without warning shot in the stomach, ?
Find the Articles, it was a multi part series.
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The only time I have for the ACLU is to see what Right they are trying to take away from me today. They have done more to destroy the First Amendment than any Christian conservative group (you know - the bad guys they are trying to save us all from). Some how the ACLU has decided that the same group that opened every meeting with prayer and held Bible studies and Worship services during their sessions meant for us to be totally free from religious and faith expression in public life. They have decided that individuals are not capable of caring for themselves or their minor child. They have decided that one race, sex or sexual orientation is more precious than others, all in the name of equality for all ???
I'm sure if the ACLU ever sat down and got to know me they would find out that I am not a low level terrorist in anyone's eyes. By the time we got half way through their interrogation they would determine that I am a serious threat (high level terrorist) to their vision of the American way.
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As distrustful as I am of federal LEOs in general, the jackbooted thugs thing was a bridge too far. Likewise, I hate the fact that they endorse GOP challengers to pro-2A democrats. This indicates that:
A. They have an agenda larger than what I'm sending them money for
B. That they are too stupid to understand that unless 2A issues are bipartisan, that we live or die by which ever party wins the next election (probably on issues having nothing to do with the 2A). LaPierre is making decisions "above his pay grade" because he likes being invited to sit at the grownups table in the GOP. Thats not what I'm paying him for. He should be as cozy with Reid as McConnenel (sic), because what I'm writing that check for is to advance ONE issue, not a party platform. Either get that, or find another line of work. The man is a well intentioned whore, but a whore none the less because he's gone beltway.
Rant over
FQ13
I may be wrong, but I think this was first uttered by one of our elected officials in DC.
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I may be wrong, but I think this was first uttered by one of our elected officials in DC.
Actually, that particular honor goes to convicted felon (and damned entertaining Miami Vice extra) G. Gordon Liddy.
FQ13
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Actually, that particular honor goes to convicted felon (and damned entertaining Miami Vice extra) G. Gordon Liddy.
FQ13
I kknow Liddy said it and also something about head shots, but i thought I remember a anews clip from the floor of the house or senate showing one of the politcians saying it.
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I kknow Liddy said it and also something about head shots, but i thought I remember a anews clip from the floor of the house or senate showing one of the politcians saying it.
Might have been. Everyone was pissed about it, me included. Hell, I spent the day under the hot Texas sun shouting insults at the FBIs HRT. My personal favorite point was when someone one gave the bullhorn to his ten year old kid who said "You're not heroes, you killed kids like me. I don't want to grow up to be like you". X ring! You could see that they felt that that one. Anyway, it was a bitch, I just don't think you should tar every good cop because of a few jackases and an idiot of an AG and FBI Director.
FQ13
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Might have been. Everyone was pissed about it, me included. Hell, I spent the day under the hot Texas sun shouting insults at the FBIs HRT. My personal favorite point was when someone one gave the bullhorn to his ten year old kid who said "You're not heroes, you killed kids like me. I don't want to grow up to be like you". X ring! You could see that they felt that that one. Anyway, it was a bitch, I just don't think you should tar every good cop because of a few jackases and an idiot of an AG and FBI Director.
FQ13
OK, I got you now. You're right that every fed cop shouldn't have been demonized, but I'd say some higher-ups definitely played the role of jack-booted thug.
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Might have been. Everyone was pissed about it, me included. Hell, I spent the day under the hot Texas sun shouting insults at the FBIs HRT. My personal favorite point was when someone one gave the bullhorn to his ten year old kid who said "You're not heroes, you killed kids like me. I don't want to grow up to be like you". X ring! You could see that they felt that that one. Anyway, it was a bitch, I just don't think you should tar every good cop because of a few jackases and an idiot of an AG and FBI Director.
FQ13
" Orders is orders " didn't work at Nuremberg, and it hasn't been excepted anywhere since . Every LEO who participated in the actions at Waco, Ruby Ridge, or stole guns in New Orleans is a POS.
Thats the difference between a Cop and an LEO. Cops are the guys who actually "Serve and Protect" their community.
LEO's are unprincipled Government thugs who don't care about right and wrong as long as they get to act like Storm Troopers.