The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Badgersmilk on June 28, 2009, 02:49:30 PM
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I recently picked up a medium ALICE pack and frame. Similar to this one:
(http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/campingsurvival_2057_397896013)
Also got a "Cargo shelf" that clips on the bottom of the frame. The only pack I was ever issued was the giant duffle bag, & the carry bag meant for Chem. gear. So this pack is a mystery to me! Would you fella's know exactly what was "intended" to go in each pouch of the pack??? And would be typical use for the cargo shelf?
I'm guessing the three pockets on the outside are for MRE's? Or clips / magazines / loose ammo?
I'm using it for extended hunts, so, rain gear, gps, range finder, spare magazines, food & water, med. kit, stuff like that is in it. But it drives me crazy wondering exactly what was SUPPOSED to be in there!
Thanks for any help!
INFORMATIVE PICTURES ARE WELCOME TOO!!!
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This may help a little. I don't know much about it myself. Tom might be a good source.
Check about half way down the page for a list of equipment.
http://www.prc68.com/I/ALICE.shtml
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This is about the best info I could find.
At the time the ALICE pack was developed we were still using C-Rations, Actually the small out side pockets we usually used for socks, underwear, shaving gear etc. Except for rations all the stuff you mention went on the cartridge belt with suspenders.
When I was in the order things were stowed in the pack was a personal thing based on how you wanted to access them.
The Cargo shelf was used for ammo cans or the sleeping bag, (Sleeping bag was secured on TOP of the pack if you had ammo cans on the shelf)
My personal opinion is that the ALICE pack SUCKED, prior to enlisting I had been hitch hiking around the country for several months living out of a commercial external frame pack and I found the ALICE Pack to be inferior in every respect.
My advice would be to toss that POS and get a decent civilian frame pack at a yard sale.
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This is about the best info I could find.
At the time the ALICE pack was developed we were still using C-Rations, Actually the small out side pockets we usually used for socks, underwear, shaving gear etc. Except for rations all the stuff you mention went on the cartridge belt with suspenders.
When I was in the order things were stowed in the pack was a personal thing based on how you wanted to access them.
The Cargo shelf was used for ammo cans or the sleeping bag, (Sleeping bag was secured on TOP of the pack if you had ammo cans on the shelf)
My personal opinion is that the ALICE pack SUCKED, prior to enlisting I had been hitch hiking around the country for several months living out of a commercial external frame pack and I found the ALICE Pack to be inferior in every respect.
My advice would be to toss that POS and get a decent civilian frame pack at a yard sale.
Seconded, and with an amen. The frame is heavy, the straps are uncomfortable, and there are no external stays to cinch down the load so stuff constantly shifts around. The only place I would disgree with Tom, is choose an internal, rather than external frame pack as they are far more comfortable and handier. If you are carrying out quartered game then disregard that and get an external where you can remove the bags and just access the frame if it has a shelf available. Also, I would at least look at a Gregory if you have the cash. Its been a long time since I sold backpacks for a living, but back in day they were the best, and I've carried one for twenty years with only three small things that I would change. Also, go to REI or someplace like that, NOT a surplus shop. You'll get a better deal on a better pack, and if it HAS to be cammo, 20 minutes and a couple of cans of spray paint will fix that. Just my .02
FQ13
PS buy a rain cover for the pack and a gore tex commpression sack for your sleeping bag and you will be much happier.
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Since I forgot to add the link in my post I will add it here
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_soldiers_gear_alice.php
As to FQ's post, we both forgot to mention that the metal brace across the bottom, the so called "Kidney pad " doesn't. I've used a half dozen different packs over the last 30 years, looking for "the best" and the ALICE with frame is the most uncomfortable mot$#rfu&$er I have ever toted.
I would also put internal frame at the top of the list, I'm currently using a North FACE brand, however if you want external pockets with many brands you have to buy them separately, most brands however include plenty of attachment points and compression straps are pretty much a standard feature. I mentioned Frame packs specifically because they would be my second choice, as FQ noted you can remove the bag and use it as a pack board, external pockets are standard and you can usually find one at a yard sale in the $25 range.
+10 on the rain cover, which also helps to "snag proof" your externally stowed gear like E tool or ax, and the compression sack for the sleeping bag.
I have quit using a tent, instead I have a 8X10 Blue tarp (it matches my pack ;D they are available in camo as well ) that I fold over the sleeping bag with bottom excess folded under and 2 layers between me and the ground. This set up not only saves weight but I can arrange it on the living room floor then roll it and stuff it in one neat compression sack, when I get to a camp site I just pull it out of the sack roll it out and I'm done.
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GREAT INFO GUYS!!! THANKS!
Gonna track down the rain cover, & compression sack right now.
Sure sounds like you fella's spent a considerable amount of time with these packs! You mentioned the frame being heavy, any chance they were steel? When I bought the pack I noticed the guy made a big deal out of saying "It has quick disconnect straps and the aluminum frame."... Made me wonder, but I didnt ask.
I found it in a surplus store and thought. "worth trying on". I'm 5,10", medium build, & it was a perfect fit! Heavier than my North Face frameless pack for SURE, but actually more comftorble! Mind you it was unloaded, but I had my 14yr old daughter hang on the frame a little... I like the outside pockets and attach points for sure, and I think it's got enough clearance with the frame that my back wont sweat (REALLY hate my current pack because that!), plus I was gonna soak it with "Camp Dry" spray. The problem I have with my commercial packs has been opening a half dozen noisy little cheap zippers and compartments to get to something, and then finding that when I left the pack on the ground everything inside got wet from dew. >:( >:(
Again, SUPER INFORMATION! Thanks! I only spent $50 bucks and an hour burning off all the extra thread (you know what I'm talking about ;)), it was "new, unissued". So if it doesnt work out, at least it will be a good learning experience on a piece of our US history!
Thanks again for the words of experience!
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They all used Aluminum frames, and I have seen a couple of them break on welds. You can use it without the frame but it still isn't that good..
Based on your post I would say that a civilian external frame pack might be right for you, the webbing of the frame will give you the air flow over your back, and the "legs" will let you lean it against a tree or rock while still keeping the bottom of the bag off the ground.
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No joy on the sweaty back, though maybe a newer pack with the camel back feature would solve that. Mine is twenty years old and I don't know.As for the "soggy bottom blues" take the ground cloth from your tent, or tarp, if you go Tom's route, and fold in the the bottom pouch of an internal frame. If its wet enough to soak through that, you ain't sleeping dry anyway. Option 2 is to put your Goretx rain pants there, as here in Fl. I generally hike in shorts and just go with a rain coat unless its raining hard enough to actually get chilly.
FQ13
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"soggy bottom blues" ;D I use my much treasured military rip-stop rain parka (best thing they ever issued me!) when the going gets wet. I'm thinking I'll line the inside of the ALICE pack with a couple black trash bags on top the "Camp Dry" that'll surely do the trick. But I think this thing may still be the ticket! The waist band is pretty heavily paded, as are the shoulder straps, doesnt pinch at the neck, and doesnt even touch my back (no sweat!!!) except where the belt is.
Found this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-purpose_Lightweight_Individual_Carrying_Equipment
Not finding ANYTHING on a rain cover for it on-line. I'll stop by the surplus store tommarow.
I'll look the welds all over. I've got some brazeing rods that work REALLY good on anything aluminum if it looks like re-enforment is needed. Thanks for the tip!
I recommend EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE that EVER see's rain have a rip-stop military rain parka! Be carefull shopping, most you'll find are trashy immitations. The real deal is nearly indestructable, it's about a 4x6' camo tarp with a hood in the middle, and eyelets all around.
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"soggy bottom blues" ;D I use my much treasured military rip-stop rain parka (best thing they ever issued me!) when the going gets wet. I'm thinking I'll line the inside of the ALICE pack with a couple black trash bags on top the "Camp Dry" that'll surely do the trick. But I think this thing may still be the ticket! The waist band is pretty heavily paded, as are the shoulder straps, doesnt pinch at the neck, and doesnt even touch my back (no sweat!!!) except where the belt is.
Found this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-purpose_Lightweight_Individual_Carrying_Equipment
Not finding ANYTHING on a rain cover for it on-line. I'll stop by the surplus store tommarow.
I'll look the welds all over. I've got some brazeing rods that work REALLY good on anything aluminum if it looks like re-enforment is needed. Thanks for the tip!
I recommend EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE that EVER see's rain have a rip-stop military rain parka! Be carefull shopping, most you'll find are trashy immitations. The real deal is nearly indestructable, it's about a 4x6' camo tarp with a hood in the middle, and eyelets all around.
Two pieces of advice.
1 lose the trash bag idea. They can get water inside and pressure will force it through. Unless you need them any way, and then you're multi-tasking.If you won't, use your ground cloth, or go to Home Depot and buy some visquine (if they even call it that anymore) its sturdier, light, and cheaper than dirt.
2 As far as the rain cover, go to REI or Cabela's on line and get a generic E-frame model. It should fit fine. Seriously though, I would say the best $50 bucks you ever blew was throwing that POS out and buying a real pack. (And I've got the blisters to prove it. Kidney "pad" {sorry I forgot my terms, Tom} my ass!) Hell, Tom and I would both be willing to spring for the gallon of diesel fuel if you burn it and send us pictures. ;D If it works for you though, then more power to you.
FQ13
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If you are going to go with the ALICE go back to the surplus store and buy some WP (Willie Peter ) bags they are water proof bags like the material your rain parka is made of. have one for dry clothes, one for food etc, to close them roll the mouth of the bag then tie it off with the ties attached.
But I'm with FQ on the diesel ;D
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Would you believe this guy lists the ALICE pack as one of the things he enjoyed in the Marines?!?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/khan7.html
The top of the pack is rubber lined, should do OK at wicking rain. I'm gonna look into those WP bags for sure.
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It was a good pack once you rigged it up with additional padding on the shoulders, ie, using old brown t-shirts with a od green on top and held down with green 500 mile a hour tape. But if I had my choice of packs it would be my Alpine Lowe 70 or my Blackhawk 3 Day Assault pack. They are internal frames instead of external and conform to the back. Ergonomics and weight distribution are awesome. I keep my old Alice Pack Large in the shed with old, military gear.
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It was a good pack once you rigged it up with additional padding on the shoulders, ie, using old brown t-shirts with a od green on top and held down with green 500 mile a hour tape. But if I had my choice of packs it would be my Alpine Lowe 70 or my Blackhawk 3 Day Assault pack. They are internal frames instead of external and conform to the back. Ergonomics and weight distribution are awesome. I keep my old Alice Pack Large in the shed with old, military gear.
The shed is a good place for it. Honestly the pack did its job, it just could have been so much better in a thousand different ways. The thing is, that we all talk about the weapon we would use, and fail to understand that the pack we carry every day, all day, is an even larger concern. It is an illustration of the LOST OLD SAYING that amateurs talk tactics, and professionals talk logistics. ;D The ALICE did its job. Its just that there are a hundred packs out there would do the same job better. If the ALICE didn't have a GI issued tag next to it,no one would look at it twice, and for good reason. (Did I mention those blisters)? Yes it has history, but if someone were to offer you one vs what REI or North Face or Gregory had, would you hesitate for a second?
FQ13
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Would you believe this guy lists the ALICE pack as one of the things he enjoyed in the Marines?!?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig3/khan7.html
The top of the pack is rubber lined, should do OK at wicking rain. I'm gonna look into those WP bags for sure.
From some one who LIKED 20 mile hikes, PFT's and push up's I believe it.
As to Ping defending the ALICE I have heard that it WAS an improvement over the older field transport packs, but I was always baffled as to why the military had to design their own pack when there were so many better ones available on the civilian market even in the 70's. They seem to be getting over that now though and are adopting more civilian gear for general issue, like Gore Tex foul weather gear, when I was in we had poncho's that were rubberized nylon, wearing them you got almost as soaked with sweat as you would have without it.
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Tom, I HAD THAT PARKA TOO! ;D ;D ;D I didnt have it long luckily! Refused to wear the thing prefering rain water to the sweat. Watch the movie U571. The Russians give troops their equivlent to this parka as radiation protection. When the troops took off the parka they looked like I felt wearing that thing. The only place I've seen the real military rip-stop parka's has been surplus stores. ALL the ones I've seen online are the fake ones that are junk. I'd recommend Frog Togs rain gear if anyone doesnt like parka's, or if they're gonna get caught in a complete downpour. They're thin, tough, and light enough its amazing water doesnt pass right through them, but they work great. Parka's are nice because they protect your gear, and after the rain stops they make a good dry seat / place to rest if spread out on the ground.
Isnt the ALICE pack rated to hold somthing like 120LBS!?! That'd explain the heavier frame for sure. FQ talking about blisters really has me wanting to take this thing out loaded and see where it goes wrong on me! Wearing it around the house with about a 30 pound load it feels great! Probably wont be till this coming weekend that I can really get out to test it.
I was issued & still have this setup. Works GREAT, easy to forget your wearing it. But I have a commercial hunting fanny pack / utility belt thats a lot more practical for short trips (more / bigger pockets, lighter belt). And I havent figured out a good use for the grenade pouches yet. Wimpy DNR frown on those for squirrel hunting.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/ba/Alice01a.jpg)
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That picture brings back a memory or two, Badger.
I used to spend a lot of time in the woods stalking/hunting during deer season and liked to wear loose fitting pants for freedom of movement. The only problem, was if I had to move quickly, I kept having to 'hitch up my pants'. I went to visit a friend over in Alabama at Ft. Rucker (he was in Air Assault School) and he gave me a set of suspenders like those pictured. I took my leather punch and punched holes in the right spots on my hunting belt and presto. Worked way better than standard suspenders due to the width.