The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: D-Man on June 28, 2009, 11:17:11 PM
-
The family and I had left the house for lunch. The dog was in her crate, and the cat was in one of the kids rooms. We set the house alarm as usual, and headed to a fast food place a few minutes from the house. All of a sudden my cell phone is ringing and the alarm company is calling me. They said the motion detector had alarmed inside of the house, but none of the doors or windows. The family stayed at the restaurant, and I told the alarm company to not have the police come out.
This is a scenario I have thought through many times, and even partially practiced, but decided to do it for real. Pulled the pistol that I keep in the jeep, put the spare mag in my pocket and decided to do a house clearing drill on my own. Pistol in right hand at low ready, unlocked the door with my left hand and entered low. Swept the living room, saw the dog still in her crate. Made sure the door to the garage was locked and deadbolted so no one could come in behind me. Swept the kitchen, then let the dog out of her crate. Proceeded to sweep the hallway slicing the pie and staying back as much as possible. Checked under beds, was watching the dog the whole time for reaction as I figured she would alert me if there was anybody else in the house. Cleared all the bedrooms, closing the doors behind me as I left the rooms. Then went back and cleared the garage as well.
Now my alarm has never had a false alarm before, but no telling what tripped the motion detector. Still it was good practice and I felt my plan was pretty solid. Just something you should always think through in case you have to clear your own house. Have to love thinking through all the TBD stuff while doing this. By the way, the alarm company told the PD not to come out, and gave them my vehicle and description in case they did respond. Had my bases covered on that front as well. They didn't show at all though.
-
Glad it turned out OK. Couple of thoughts:
First, are you nuts? :D Unless you are a full-time trained and experienced cop, why would you clear your own house? That's the cop's job. You have no clue who or what is inside and there is only one of you. Two if you count the dog.
And second, what if the cops had shown up after all, missed the info (dispatcher failed to relay it, whatever) and they see you with a gun?
TBD gives great lessons for when you have no other choice - home invasion or whatever. It is not training for you to be Dano in Hawaii 5-0.
Sorry to take a poke at the bubble, just my $.02.
-
I'd have done the same, he had a reasonable belief that it was a false alarm after talking to the security company. If the cops come by you drop you mag and lock your slide and set the weapon on the ground and put your hands in a non threatening position. I've seen my old man clear a couple houses, after some of the less competent brothers failed to shut the door all the way and worry everyone, and he never tried to call LE, although he is one.
You don't call the police every time you hear a bump out side your window do you? No you give it a look first. Now if he would have rolled up to his house and a unknown vehicle was outside, I'm sure that would have changed his decision making process.
-
I'm with Path here.
A. You were in no danger
B. This is what we pay the cops to do (at no additional fee)
C. IF there had been a BG in the house, and worse came to worst (or second worst) a prosecutor might have asked, "Why did he wave off the cops and clear the house on his own"?
A gun in the holster is a good thing. A gun in the hand should only happen at the range or when there is zero alternative. Here, thre was an alternative. I'm not judging or condemning, just offering my POV. Your mileage may vary.
FQ13
-
I'm not going to give D Man a hard time , I've done the same thing. I came home one day from a quick trip down the street to find my door ajar about an inch, after listening and not hearing noise in my apartment I went in and cleared it, nothing missing or out of place, I have since been more careful about listening for the lock to click when I leave. I was reasonably sure at the time that I had not shut the door securely because 1) I live in a small cheap apartment, but it is in the lower crime part of town, 2) it was a spur of the moment trip during the afternoon, 3) I live on the second floor in back, any one coming in would have had to pass 2 other apartments before they got to mine and the neighbor lady would have heard my door being forced, 4) there was no apparent damage to the door, That for me was the deciding factor, if the door had been damaged I would have called the Cops and let them earn their money.
Note for DMan, you know an air current can set off a motion detector, this building has out side lights on motion sensors and they often go on for no apparent reason I thought leaves blowing through the sensor area, but in the middle of winter it happens as well so I'm thinking temperature variations are doing it.
-
I had to go to the Home Depot one day and swore that i closed the front door. When i came back to my house the front door is wide open and all kinds of hell is going through my mind. I called the police and waited for about 10 minutes no one showed, so i took matters in my own hands went in and got my snubbie i keep in the livingroom behind my couch. As i cleared my house the cop show up and ask me whats going on and giving all kinds of shit for doing what i thought was right. But i do think back to that day and ponder how good of an idea it was to go in if i wasnt sure it was safe.
-
I also lived in a house that had a front door that would sometimes not latch.
I came home from work one day and as I pulled into the driveway, I noticed the front door was half open. If the door does not latch, the wind will often blow the door open like that.
I was carrying without a CCW permit, which was not available in my state at that time. The existing law stated that a person could go armed if they were going to be in a situation where a reasonable person would go armed. I had always assumed if I had needed to use my weapon is self defense, the reasonableness would be evident.
In this case I wasn't to worried because I would be inside my home. However, I did consider that I would be willingly entering a situation where deadly force might be used when there was an alternative.
I decided to use the next door neighbors phone to call the police. They asked me if there was someone in my house at the time and I told them I didn't know, just that I saw the front door was open. They asked if anyone might be legally in the house and I said I lived alone. They told me they would send an officer.
45 minutes later I called them back to see what was up and they said it was still on the list. Since there was no immediate danger, they had not made it a priority call.
I went in and cleared the house and the police never did respond.
I believe I'd clear without calling should I be in the same situation again.
If you have a "self defense" mindset, each time you enter your house you will probably be aware that there may be an intruder present, which was exactly my thought when I made that call in the first situation...there may be an intruder present.
-
If one of the exterior alarms had tripped, or a strange car was here, then it was a no brainer to let the police clear the house. False alarms (which I was reasonably sure of) cost us a ton of money out here in SoCal. I suspected it was because it was a warm day and we have two different AC zones in the house. The warm / cold air mix must have gone across the motion detector. I was 90% sure that the house was clear, but went through the checking process just to be 100% sure. Doesn't hurt that I also had a lot of house clearing experience in the military as well :)
Still I appreciate the comments.
-
At least you utilized your training D-Man and observed if there was anything foreign in the area. I have searched and cleared my home several times, but I do not have an alarm, after hearing a bump in the night. I have been trained to search and clear areas but that is no longer my primary profession.
I do see where it could be a issue if officers are responding. I know local LEO's do not like responding to calls for alarms at homes. I would stay on the line with the security company to let them know my position in and around the house, plus give a brief description of what I was wearing. (Great info from TBD).
You did alright D-Man. Sometimes you have to use the balls you have been given and take command and control of the situation.
-
I'm with Path here.
A. You were in no danger
B. This is what we pay the cops to do (at no additional fee)
C. IF there had been a BG in the house, and worse came to worst (or second worst) a prosecutor might have asked, "Why did he wave off the cops and clear the house on his own"?
A gun in the holster is a good thing. A gun in the hand should only happen at the range or when there is zero alternative. Here, thre was an alternative. I'm not judging or condemning, just offering my POV. Your mileage may vary.
FQ13
Gotta agree with Path and FQ on this one.
Even though you were reasonably sure that the cops weren't coming and you gave them a description to boot, why not let the pros handle it. Even with your military experience clearing houses, I'm sure that you were part of a team. BG could have come on foot and entered where you didn't see evidence of a break in.
Was your heart pounding and your adrenaline pumping as you were clearing. If so, even you recognized the potential danger. Don't risk your tail if you can have the pros risk theirs. Just my opinion.
-
I am with Path as well. In the evnt you get a phone call that the alarm has gone off, let the police handle it. Now, in teh event that you return home to a door ajar...I cant say that waiting on teh police is the prudent thing to do. I too experienced this. Came home from church one Sunday to the back door wide open. I asked teh wife if she had closed the door and she said yes (which means about 50/50 shot she was tellin the truth anyway). So I told her to stay in the car with our child and lock the doors. I used the limited MOUT Training I have recieved plus what I have learned on TBD and from local classes on slef defense that I have taken to clear the house.
I have always believed in the statement.."carry a gun or call the police...they will come in time to photgraph yoru corpse.." but if i am not in immediate danger, and teh cops can handle it, let em earn my tax money and do their job..