The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on June 30, 2009, 08:18:09 PM
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American Troops withdrew from cities across Iraq today at midnight Iraqi time.
This is what everyone wanted. Where's the celebration? Where's the acknowledgment that the surge worked, and Iraqi forces are now in control of their own cities.
Troops will still be there, but where's the coverage? The MSM covered all the negative, all the tragic realities of combat, all the mistakes, but this is a landmark victory that even anti war people wanted. Give them the means to police themselves and go...
What our soldiers accomplished should not pass by the wayside because of the state run media, or a war opposing POTUS.
Our troops, and their families deserve all our prayers and thanks for their sacrifice and diligence; it's a shame it was not noted except for a few sound bites by the state run media.
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This is why I don't watch the network or cable news programs any more.
Our troops deserve a standing ovation but I doubt very much it's going to happen, at least not in a public forum...
They have my eternal gratitude, that's all I can do.
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They're showing it here, but making it look like Obama's pullout is working. They mentioned that total withdrawal is supposed to be in 2011, just in time for elections. ::)
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Regardless of your positon on Obama or the wisdom of the war to begin with, this has to happen. You can't be like Cheney who thnks we should stay till the last terrorist is dead, or the peaceniks who opposed the surge. At some point the Iraqis have got to pull their own weight. Withdrawing from the cities to test their ability to do that while we still have troops in theatre seems like a good idea. We can always go back in.
FQ13
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DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER OUR " VICTORY" IN VIETNAM IN 1973 AND THE FALL OF SAIGON IN 1975.
YOU ARE NOW SEEING THE "VICTORY" IN IRAQ. YOU WILL BE SEEING THE FALL OF BAGDAD IN A COUPLE OF YEARS.
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Harry Reid, you where saying?
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At some point the Iraqis have got to pull their own weight. Withdrawing from the cities to test their ability to do that while we still have troops in theatre seems like a good idea. We can always go back in.
FQ, Spock would approve, that is a very logical thing to say...I can't even argue with that.... ::)
I know, it's all Cheney's fault, but still,.... ;)
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The only way to turn this Defeat into a Victory is to HONOR every single serviceman and servicewoman when they eventually come home for good. I know that many of them are going to be pissed that we're not properly finishing the job and rushing to turn the cities and soon the country over to the Iraquis. It is a dishonor to those that have died and shed blood not to finish things properly.
God forbid that gaspasserdeluxe is right and we see the fall of Baghdad in the near future.
We can only pray that the Iraquis are up to the task. Thankfully, at this point, we have only left the cities and not the country.
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Regardless of your positon on Obama or the wisdom of the war to begin with, this has to happen. You can't be like Cheney who thnks we should stay till the last terrorist is dead, or the peaceniks who opposed the surge. At some point the Iraqis have got to pull their own weight. Withdrawing from the cities to test their ability to do that while we still have troops in theatre seems like a good idea. We can always go back in.
FQ13
(_*_) We kept troops in Germany and Korea for over 50 years (so far). Did any body else see this :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090701/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq
BAGHDAD – Not a single American soldier was in sight. Gone, too, were the American helicopters whose buzz has for years defined Baghdad's background track. Left alone to protect the capital Tuesday were thousands of Iraqi troops and police manning checkpoints, with army tanks deployed at potential trouble spots and convoys of pickup trucks with machine guns roaming the streets.
But it was elsewhere, 180 miles to the north, that militants delivered their first deadly challenge to Iraq's security forces on a highly symbolic day after the formal withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from cities at midnight.
A car bombing devastated a food market in the city of Kirkuk, killing at least 33 people and wounding 90. The early evening attack, which bore the hallmarks of Sunni extremist groups like al-Qaida in Iraq, was the second in the Kirkuk area since a truck bombing killed 82 people on June 20.
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(_*_) We kept troops in Germany and Korea for over 50 years (so far). Did any body else see this :
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090701/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq
BAGHDAD – Not a single American soldier was in sight. Gone, too, were the American helicopters whose buzz has for years defined Baghdad's background track. Left alone to protect the capital Tuesday were thousands of Iraqi troops and police manning checkpoints, with army tanks deployed at potential trouble spots and convoys of pickup trucks with machine guns roaming the streets.
But it was elsewhere, 180 miles to the north, that militants delivered their first deadly challenge to Iraq's security forces on a highly symbolic day after the formal withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from cities at midnight.
A car bombing devastated a food market in the city of Kirkuk, killing at least 33 people and wounding 90. The early evening attack, which bore the hallmarks of Sunni extremist groups like al-Qaida in Iraq, was the second in the Kirkuk area since a truck bombing killed 82 people on June 20.
Tom
Look. I opposed the war in Iraq for two reasons.
1 Saddam was not in conivance with Al Queda, he did not have WMD, as Bush the elder's containment plan was working fine, and the country is a freaking basket case made up Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites, all of whom hate each other, and if we invaded this would become our problem with little support from any other nation. I think I was right.
2 We weren't finished with the job in Afghanistan and had barely driven the Taliban out and not yet secured the nation to prevent their return. Again, I think I was right.
The thing is if the only thing holding Iraq toghether is American soldiers, at some point we have to say "who cares". We can't stay there forever. The Iraqis will have to either:
1 Get their act toghether
2 Agree on partition
3 Decend into a Balkan style civil war that will end when either one side wins, or they get tired of killing each other.
Whichever they choose, at some point it has to be their choice and no longer our problem, to the tune of billions a year and not enough forces to deal with Iran and North Korea. (The two members of the axis of evil that actually DO have WMDs, not to mention Pakistan). Sorry Tom, but there are only so many king's horses and so many king's men. King George didn't have enough to fight forever, and neither does the Boy King. It is time to test the Iraqi government while we still have troops there. We can always go back in. But until we withdraw, rest, resupply and retrain, Iran and North Korea know we can't do much. Therefore best to turn it over to Iraqi's as soon as we responsibly can.
FQ13
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This is why I don't watch the network or cable news programs any more.
Our troops deserve a standing ovation but I doubt very much it's going to happen, at least not in a public forum...
They have my eternal gratitude, that's all I can do.
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
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"Taza’s Turkmen police chief, who identified himself as Colonel Jangueez, said that once the U.S. gets out of the way, problems with the Kurds will evaporate. “This is the beginning of Iraqis taking control,” he said."
"June 30 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. combat troops, under agreement with the Iraqi government, abandoned the country’s cities today amid public celebrations and private concerns over Iraq’s future security.
The government declared today a national holiday. Official cars were decorated with streamers and flowers. Martial music and history documentaries filled television screens. "
Who's celebrating? The worthless camels we risked & some gave their lives for. Should have never been there, these people know no end to war (THEY SAY IT THEMSELVES). It's been their way of life for century's & we thought we'd walk in & change that?!?! DUMB AS$ BUSH!
Pull out the rest of our troops and blanket the land with nukes... The ONLY way that land will ever see peace is when nothing there is taking a breath!
We'll quickly learn to do without their oil, and it will be for the better of the whole world.
Isn't NK looking for a good test site to show off?
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CHILDREN NEED NOT WATCH! This is real life as it exists. Not censored easy listening you've been conditioned to.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0a3_1233765334
ANY QUESTIONS???
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Tom
Look. I opposed the war in Iraq for two reasons.
1 Saddam was not in conivance with Al Queda, he did not have WMD, as Bush the elder's containment plan was working fine, and the country is a freaking basket case made up Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites, all of whom hate each other, and if we invaded this would become our problem with little support from any other nation. I think I was right.
2 We weren't finished with the job in Afghanistan and had barely driven the Taliban out and not yet secured the nation to prevent their return. Again, I think I was right.
The thing is if the only thing holding Iraq toghether is American soldiers, at some point we have to say "who cares". We can't stay there forever. The Iraqis will have to either:
1 Get their act toghether
2 Agree on partition
3 Decend into a Balkan style civil war that will end when either one side wins, or they get tired of killing each other.
Whichever they choose, at some point it has to be their choice and no longer our problem, to the tune of billions a year and not enough forces to deal with Iran and North Korea. (The two members of the axis of evil that actually DO have WMDs, not to mention Pakistan). Sorry Tom, but there are only so many king's horses and so many king's men. King George didn't have enough to fight forever, and neither does the Boy King. It is time to test the Iraqi government while we still have troops there. We can always go back in. But until we withdraw, rest, resupply and retrain, Iran and North Korea know we can't do much. Therefore best to turn it over to Iraqi's as soon as we responsibly can.
FQ13
In other words you ignorance led you to buy the liberal bullshit. (_?_)
1 Saddam was not in conivance with Al Queda, Wrong. Actually they WERE, this has been borne out by interrogations of both Al Queda AND Iraqi officials, (Will have to check library for reference)
he did not have WMD, Wrong again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwqh4wQPoQk What pray tell do you think killed those Kurds that "Chemical Ali" got hung for ? Camel farts ? There was a report that even made CNN in the spring of 04 about 4 US Soldiers who tripped a chemical 155mm shell rigged as a booby trap, they were only lightly contaminated as chemical shells don't work that way, they depend on altitude to disperse the agent. Where do you think Syria got the Nuke tech that the Israeli's raided a while back ? Oh I know, Ali Baba dropped it off with his flying carpet, right ?
Bush the elder's containment plan was working fine, Three strikes in your first item ::) Oh yeah, it worked so good that even BJ had to take military action, this is such a stupid comment I will just refer you to the above video and tell you to LOOK at the dates.
with little support from any other nation. I think I was right. There were nearly 40 countries that participated, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_Force_-_Iraq Hell, even Tonga sent troops. You think you were right ? I think if one of your students turned in such piss pure research you would them. Your total ignorance shows an abject failure to perform the slightest "due diligence" research.
The thing is if the only thing holding Iraq toghether is American soldiers, at some point we have to say "who cares". We can't stay there forever. The Iraqis will have to either:
1 Get their act toghether
2 Agree on partition
3 Decend into a Balkan style civil war that will end when either one side wins, or they get tired of killing each other. We have kept troops in Korea for over 50 years, these people have no experience with representative Govt. and need help to set up and maintain one, That takes time, and the cowardly "Monty Python approach" (Run away ! Run away ! ) only guarantees failure.
Sorry Tom, but there are only so many king's horses and so many king's men. Of course that's no fault of the Democrats, and has NOTHING to do with their constant demands to cut Defense spending so they can buy more welfare votes.
We can always go back in. Riiight, Just like we promised the South Vietnamese we would ? Right up until 75 when the Dems hung them out to dry ?
King George didn't have enough to fight forever, and neither does the Boy King. It's not troops that King Barry the Bastard is lacking, just balls.
Didn't you pay attention to ANY of the history you studied ? Or did you just memorize names and dates to regurgitate back on tests ?
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I'd almost vote number 3 on your list of end results. But they've been killing each other for how many hundreds of years and havent "got tired of it" yet???
I would like to see the video you posted a link for, but the link didnt work. Can you please check it?
I didnt have to do "research", believe video's, or any other press. I was there. I saw how those people are. If we'd kept our noses out of their politics we would never have had a conflict (what they wanted all along!!!)... History seems to repeat itsself. I will say one thing for countries like Canada, at least they dont typically go looking to get their own troops killed for somebody elses war, or the money grubbing greed of their leaders (until we push them into participating).
Total destruction of the culture. Call it what you want. NO its not pretty. It IS the only resolution to the problem. OR, we just stay out of it and let them continue killing themselves!!!
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Links are fixed, as to the video you posted it makes the point that they need all the help they can get, also while it was only posted to live link in 09 I believe it is an older video, I know the one of the messed up PT is over a year old.
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Good video. My personal belief (having not actually SEEN any WOMD) there, is that they WERE there, and quickly escorted out of country by the same people who sold them to the Camels to begin with. Yet to be proven though. I think.
Soooo. Lets make things REAL simple. What if we stopped ALL international trade tommarow??? Would we struggle for 2 or 3 years to adapt? Yes. We're already in a F'ing depression! Yep, thats right, I said "DEPRESSION", not the more PC "recession". Could we succeed at a comeback, and become a great world leader again instead of being a whore to asia and laughing stock to the rest of the world? HELL YES!
Now lets go even deeper. Will our government fail to the point to allow an end of all international trade to happen? I see no other way this country will ever be more than the sorry, broken, weak shadow of its former self that it has become.
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Good video. My personal belief (having not actually SEEN any WOMD) there, is that they WERE there, and quickly escorted out of country by the same people who sold them to the Camels to begin with. Yet to be proven though. I think.
Soooo. Lets make things REAL simple. What if we stopped ALL international trade tommarow??? Would we struggle for 2 or 3 years to adapt? Yes. We're already in a F'ing depression! Yep, thats right, I said "DEPRESSION", not the more PC "recession". Could we succeed at it, and become a great world leader again instead of being a whore to asia and laughing stock to the rest of the world? HELL YES!
We would not need to drop world trade, just kill or deport all the liberals, and get some REAL Americans, with balls running things.
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Sorry, I added the last comment after the fact. Ending world trade sure creates a LOT of jobs here for people in a BIG hurry! I see no drawbacks. Would other economies COMPLETELY collapse without their "american whore's" to buy up all their JUNK. Sounds like that would be a problem for THEM.
We have the farming & manufacturing power to succeed on our own. Political greed is the only road block.
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Sorry, I added the last comment after the fact. Ending world trade sure creates a LOT of jobs here for people in a BIG hurry! I see no drawbacks. Would other economies COMPLETELY collapse without their "american whore's" to buy up all their JUNK. Sounds like that would be a problem for THEM.
We have the farming & manufacturing power to succeed on our own. Political greed is the only road block.
Tom and Badger, I agree with you both. If we could only make it happen. NOT as long as "We are the World" illegal alien BHO is POTUS.
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Sorry, I added the last comment after the fact. Ending world trade sure creates a LOT of jobs here for people in a BIG hurry! I see no drawbacks. Would other economies COMPLETELY collapse without their "american whore's" to buy up all their JUNK. Sounds like that would be a problem for THEM.
We have the farming & manufacturing power to succeed on our own. Political greed is the only road block.
I agree about the manufacturing jobs, That's what I'm unemployed at , it's the raw materials, like Chromium tht we need to get overseas. Otherwise I would agree with you.
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We've got some great mind's here in this country. We'll find substitutes for what we lack.
I first got laid off from an automotive cut back, then again months later from another job when defense cutbacks hit! (outside healthcare I dont see what ISN'T getting cut back. Nobody wants me as a nurse! ;D)
Think we moved up a mark on the a government "watch list" somewhere? Sure feels better though! ;D
I know in my heart the day will come when we can ALL be "Proud to be an American" again. And I know it's not going to come easy.