Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: Walkeraviator on July 02, 2009, 12:32:43 PM
Title: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Walkeraviator on July 02, 2009, 12:32:43 PM
I was wondering what your guys opinions are on open carry and concealed carry. There are two trains of thought in articular I would like discussed, but that doesnt mean to limit the conversation. And lets keep this discussion away from legality as I live in a state which protects our right to open carry.
1. Open carry is a deterent. If a possible perp sees that you are carrying he will look elsewhere for trouble
2. Open Carry is a tactical disadvantage, and Concealed Carry gives you teh element of surprise. If the BG sees your open carry, you become target number one and he gets the drop on you.
Im still in deliberation about whether I want to open carry or not. These points in addition to not wanting headaches from Cops who dont know the laws they are hired to enforce, have kept me from open carrying to this point.
What is your take on it???
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: ericire12 on July 02, 2009, 12:34:38 PM
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Walkeraviator on July 02, 2009, 12:47:37 PM
Thanks for teh link... those are the responses i suspected I would get...
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: twyacht on July 03, 2009, 10:11:25 PM
NC had an "Open Carry" statute,....it was a legal double edged sword that cut both ways.
In rural areas, no problem,... shotgun in the rack of the pickup window type thing,. Everyone had a firearm close whether carrying or not, but we were awfully polite....regardless..
Brandishing to the terror of the public changed alot of that,...
Suburbs, small cities, .......concealed is the way to go.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: MikeBjerum on July 04, 2009, 11:54:06 AM
NC had an "Open Carry" statute,....it was a legal double edged sword that cut both ways.
In rural areas, no problem,... shotgun in the rack of the pickup window type thing,. Everyone had a firearm close whether carrying or not, but we were awfully polite....regardless..
Brandishing to the terror of the public changed alot of that,...
Suburbs, small cities, .......concealed is the way to go.
Read my reply here - http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=7369.50 (http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=7369.50)
This was a case of assumption and not verified fact. Tie that to what twyacht just stated, and you will know why I believe in concealed carry ... wide spread concealed carry!
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: DavidC77 on July 05, 2009, 10:47:09 AM
Open carry brings problems, I'm not against it, myself I would still carry conceled.
We had a case up in NH (where it is OK to carry open) where a person from my state (MASS, that says it all there) saw someone carrying and went running scared, called the police saying there was a mad man running around with a gun and things like that. Well the police came saw what was going on and defused the case it was over but not without a lot of head aches to the legal carrying person.
So again my way of thinking is conceled. Looking at your statements, 1. the bad guy doesn't no you are carrying so you have the upper hand and 2. you don't become the 1st dead or shoot person. You can look at it this way too, if you are still in the mix, so to say, you can maybe help someone else (your wife, kid, friend) or even stop anything from happening.
I thought that the shows on "Best Defense" were very good when they were showing the different ways as to how a shooting "could go" when they did the different ways it could go down like in the store or at the ATM. Very good veiwing and teaching.
As i said these are only my views and my way of thinking, I no there will be millions of other views so don't flame me for my views if they aren't yours, that is one of the reasons I don't answer alot of these style questions, but, I wanted to add my thoughts to this one.
David
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Timothy on July 05, 2009, 10:58:52 AM
David,
I live in MA as well and to the best of my knowledge, it's not illegal to open carry in MA either but I would never advise it. Our LTC-A license is just what it says, License to Carry, Class A (Hi-Cap). I've read the laws several times and probably will again but nowhere do they say you MUST conceal...
Again, I always do and would advise any other MA residents to do the same.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: DavidC77 on July 05, 2009, 11:07:55 AM
I live in MA as well and to the best of my knowledge, it's not illegal to open carry in MA either but I would never advise it. Our LTC-A license is just what it says, License to Carry, Class A (Hi-Cap). I've read the laws several times and probably will again but nowhere do they say you MUST conceal...
Again, I always do and would advise any other MA residents to do the same.
Yes Mass is a "no open carry state".
Here are a few good places to look at: http://www.zerohourarms.com/ (http://www.zerohourarms.com/) and http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopssubtopic&L=3&L0=Home&L1=Firearms+Registration+%26+Laws&L2=Gun+Laws&sid=Eeops (http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=eopssubtopic&L=3&L0=Home&L1=Firearms+Registration+%26+Laws&L2=Gun+Laws&sid=Eeops).
Hope that helps, you can also check out NortheastShooters.com, http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/index.php (http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/index.php) , there's alot of good info for us Mass people.
David
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tombogan03884 on July 05, 2009, 11:10:09 AM
David, I live in NH and while I am not familiar with the specific incident you refer to, I have heard of several similar over the years. While I personally have never had to deal with a cop enforcing his opinion over the Law (the Seacoast area is the worst for that ), I figure that concealed is more likely to keep it that way. Besides, NH CCW is so easy and inexpensive that only a cheapskate WOULDN'T go that route.I realize that other states that is not true so I would suggest that people take their area and local attitudes into account.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: DavidC77 on July 05, 2009, 11:13:10 AM
I would suggest that people take their area and local attitudes into account.
I totally agree there.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Timothy on July 05, 2009, 01:53:01 PM
David, thanks for the links but I've read our state laws several times and I have never found that we are a "Concealed Only" state. As far as any other links other than the Government ones, I don't bother because it's just someone elses interpretation of our laws and I don't trust them.
Northeast Shooters is a great organization but I won't take the opinion of anyone other than a lawyer, familiar with our screwed up laws, as gospel. It's MY job to make sure I'm legal, I trust absolutely NO ONE in this regard.
Several "Open Carry" sites state that we are not a traditional open carry state but open carry is legal as far as they can tell.
David, thanks for the links but I've read our state laws several times and I have never found that we are a "Concealed Only" state. As far as any other links other than the Government ones, I don't bother because it's just someone elses interpretation of our laws and I don't trust them.
Northeast Shooters is a great organization but I won't take the opinion of anyone other than a lawyer, familiar with our screwed up laws, as gospel. It's MY job to make sure I'm legal, I trust absolutely NO ONE in this regard.
Several "Open Carry" sites state that we are not a traditional open carry state but open carry is legal as far as they can tell.
A wise decision. Every one has an opinion. The two that matter are yours and the prosecuter's. A smart person tries to make sure they are in agreement as much as possible. Others might volunteer to be a test case but on this I stand firmly with Haz. Let someone else do the beta testing. FQ13
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: DavidC77 on July 05, 2009, 03:28:19 PM
I won't take the opinion of anyone other than a lawyer, familiar with our screwed up laws, as gospel. It's MY job to make sure I'm legal, I trust absolutely NO ONE in this regard.
I agree, it is good to talk with a lawyer, NES's has some great lawyers that are on the site, Darius Arbabi has been very helpfull to me. Here's a few links to help you : http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19145 (http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19145) , http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18 (http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18) .
I know I don't no all the laws either and as you no in Mass it can change daily and who is intrepting those laws also can see it there way. I'm just carefull myself and try to help where I can.
Good Luck.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: MikeBjerum on July 05, 2009, 10:56:07 PM
I want to clarify myself:
Earlier I said "concealed carry ..." I want open carry to be allowed, but until the general public can get over its gun phobia I will conceal when I carry ... And I will carry every chance I get!
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: TAB on July 06, 2009, 12:14:03 AM
even if you take out the public fear, I would still rather CC then OC. the 2 main reasons for this are:
1 It does not put a target on the back of my head.
2 "out of sight out of mind" can't ofend anyone if you don't know I have it, but I very strongly beleave that if you screw up while CCing ( IE ND, taking it some where forbiden) you should lose your abilty to CC, for life.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: fightingquaker13 on July 06, 2009, 12:25:53 AM
even if you take out the public fear, I would still rather CC then OC. the 2 main reasons for this are:
1 It does not put a target on the back of my head.
2 "out of sight out of mind" can't ofend anyone if you don't know I have it, but I very strongly beleave that if you screw up while CCing ( IE ND, taking it some where forbiden) you should lose your abilty to CC, for life.
A bit harsh on the latter TAB. I think that it should be judged on the nature of the offense, like driving. A purely technical, unintentional and harmless offense, a fine and one strike. Something intentional, but still technical and harmless, 2 strikes, a fine and a one year suspension. Something dangerous, and you lose. FQ13
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: TAB on July 06, 2009, 12:34:24 AM
I disagree, damage from your ND could get into the millions, with out too much trouble.
if you have a ND on my job site, you can bet your ass, you will be getting a bill from me for what ever it cost me.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: fitebak on July 06, 2009, 09:16:09 PM
This book is coming out soon and the part that got my attention is that interviews with some criminals shows that if they can determine you are carrying they will just shoot you first if you have something they want. I vote for concealed carry, it just gives you more options, at your discretion. Don't show your hand, stay concealed.
www.denverpost.com/news/ci_12692897
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Combat Diver on August 17, 2009, 05:14:00 AM
I've carried both ways. Long before Kentucky passed its concealed carry it was open carry since 1812 or so. I carried just about everywhere legal (Fort Campbell where I worked was a no go). I did have the Manager of a Wal-Mart in Paducha call the law on me. Managaer said it was "Illegal to carry". I responded "No, sir its not" and left. Outside I was stopped by the local police and issued desolved. To a crimmal everyone is a potenial targer. You make yourself less of a target by being aware of your surroundings no matter open or concealed.
Right now since I'm constantly moving and resettled in NC, I haven't had the time to put in for my CCW there. I did open carry when hunting and never raised an eyebrow when I stopped at the quick mart down the street from the gamelands (course I was wearing cammies and blaze orange vest). NC allows you to also carry either openly or concealed (without a CCW) while on your own property. Each state is different and exericse your rights when and how you can. Always be vigillant (sp) and aware of your surroundings.
CD
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 17, 2009, 06:41:50 AM
I've carried both ways. Long before Kentucky passed its concealed carry it was open carry since 1812 or so. I carried just about everywhere legal (Fort Campbell where I worked was a no go). I did have the Manager of a Wal-Mart in Paducha call the law on me. Managaer said it was "Illegal to carry". I responded "No, sir its not" and left. Outside I was stopped by the local police and issued desolved. To a crimmal everyone is a potenial targer. You make yourself less of a target by being aware of your surroundings no matter open or concealed.
Right now since I'm constantly moving and resettled in NC, I haven't had the time to put in for my CCW there. I did open carry when hunting and never raised an eyebrow when I stopped at the quick mart down the street from the gamelands (course I was wearing cammies and blaze orange vest). NC allows you to also carry either openly or concealed (without a CCW) while on your own property. Each state is different and exericse your rights when and how you can. Always be vigillant (sp) and aware of your surroundings.
CD
In NC be careful about what county you are in, some of the Sheriffs make their own rules. Onslow county for example will lock you up for obeying the law.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tt11758 on August 17, 2009, 12:46:22 PM
I haven't open carried since I wore a uniform. Personally I prefer the element of surprise. Besides, as m58 mentioned, too many people are still scared to death of guns and the evil people who carry them.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 17, 2009, 02:00:03 PM
I haven't open carried since I got my first CCW in 1981, but the sissy people need to be acclimatized to it, We're here, we're KEEPING our rights and they BETTER just get over it. After all, what are they going to do about it, there are 90 MILLION of us and we ALL have guns ?
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Ping on August 17, 2009, 04:48:44 PM
While hunting or fishing I will open carry, though I mostly will conceal it. But I do agree with keeping the firearm concealed while in a populated area.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 17, 2009, 08:25:52 PM
While hunting or fishing I will open carry, though I mostly will conceal it. But I do agree with keeping the firearm concealed while in a populated area.
That's part of how we got INTO this situation, "Oh, we don't want to offend any one" F#ck em., if they are such pussies that the mere sight of a gun gives them the shivering shits, they should just go some where and die, what are they going to do if some one actually speaks harshly to them, go into therapy ?
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: True_Texan on August 18, 2009, 01:58:57 AM
That's part of how we got INTO this situation, "Oh, we don't want to offend any one" F#ck em., if they are such pussies that the mere sight of a gun gives them the shivering shits, they should just go some where and die, what are they going to do if some one actually speaks harshly to them, go into therapy ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkt1vAX0MRM
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Rob10ring on August 18, 2009, 04:28:04 AM
Well, this is some awesome open-carry right here - at an Obama speech! Go Arizona!
That's part of how we got INTO this situation, "Oh, we don't want to offend any one" F#ck em., if they are such pussies that the mere sight of a gun gives them the shivering shits, they should just go some where and die, what are they going to do if some one actually speaks harshly to them, go into therapy ?
They're probably already in therapy. 8)
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tt11758 on August 18, 2009, 12:05:47 PM
Here's the reply I posted on CNN's site:
Quote
I fail to see what all the fuss is about. The gentleman was exercising his God-given rights, as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. The fact is that he behaved himself perfectly. There were no attempts made on the life of the President. There were no shots fired an anybody or anything. The weapon was never used in a threatening manner. Much like most lawful gun owners in this country, he was polite and considerate. Let’s face it, an armed society is a polite society. If you don’t want to see the gun that somebody is carrying, look the other way……much as I do to avoid seeing the spandex that is stretched precariously over your cottage-cheese like thighs.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: shooter32 on August 18, 2009, 01:29:56 PM
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: ericire12 on August 18, 2009, 01:36:20 PM
Quote
much as I do to avoid seeing the spandex that is stretched precariously over your cottage-cheese like thighs.
See, just because you can do something, doesnt mean you necessarily should.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Walkeraviator on August 18, 2009, 02:07:36 PM
I dont know if anyone here is registered over at opencarry.org, but it is a wonderful sight that can be a great asset when learning laws pertaining to your area regarding open carry. The one downside is the few real anarchists that are on that sight. They spend a lot of time cop bashing which fires me up. But if you can learn to avoid them, then the knowledge over there is very useful.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 18, 2009, 03:17:26 PM
I dont know if anyone here is registered over at opencarry.org, but it is a wonderful sight that can be a great asset when learning laws pertaining to your area regarding open carry. The one downside is the few real anarchists that are on that sight. They spend a lot of time cop bashing which fires me up. But if you can learn to avoid them, then the knowledge over there is very useful.
That is one of the things that annoys me about the Free State project, (my MAIN beef with them is something else) But a large portion of the problems for Open Carriers ARE generated by police officers who don't know what they are talking about, or put the Chiefs "Policy" ahead of the written law. The proper answer for a Cop when told "I just saw a guy with a gun on his hip" is, So?
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Badgersmilk on August 19, 2009, 08:16:43 PM
That is one of the things that annoys me about the Free State project, (my MAIN beef with them is something else) But a large portion of the problems for Open Carriers ARE generated by police officers who don't know what they are talking about, or put the Chiefs "Policy" ahead of the written law. The proper answer for a Cop when told "I just saw a guy with a gun on his hip" is, So?
Even better if the cop pointed out. "And the thought of stealing his wallet was the LAST thing on your mind wasnt it?" ;)
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 19, 2009, 08:27:50 PM
Haz, To quote Andrew Jackson, "It's a damned small mind that can only find one way to spell a word." He didn't learn to read till AFTER he was in the White House, his wife had to teach him. He was the one who came up with "OK", It's his own shorthand for ALL CORRECT, or as he probably wrote "ol korekt" ;D
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Hazcat on August 19, 2009, 11:39:09 PM
Haz, To quote Andrew Jackson, "It's a damned small mind that can only find one way to spell a word." He didn't learn to read till AFTER he was in the White House, his wife had to teach him. He was the one who came up with "OK", It's his own shorthand for ALL CORRECT, or as he probably wrote "ol korekt" ;D
At the same time English is our language and words mean things. Is too the same as to or two? ;D
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 19, 2009, 11:43:01 PM
At the same time English is our language and words mean things. Is too the same as to or two? ;D
If I'm typing it it might be. No spell check in the world will keep me straight on that one. ;D Teddy Roosevelt was a great believer in a fad of "simplified spelling" that was popular at the turn of the Century, That was when we lost the English R in Armour, and switched the E for an A in grey. He even ordered that all govt. documents use "Simplified spelling" but it didn't work out and was allowed to fade away.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Hazcat on August 19, 2009, 11:53:24 PM
If I'm typing it it might be. No spell check in the world will keep me straight on that one. ;D Teddy Roosevelt was a great believer in a fad of "simplified spelling" that was popular at the turn of the Century, That was when we lost the English R in Armour, and switched the E for an A in grey. He even ordered that all govt. documents use "Simplified spelling" but it didn't work out and was allowed to fade away.
Thank goodness! I am FAR from being a William F. Buckley but I do try. Ours is one of the last 'live' languages in my estimation. All others do not have 'new' words they combine things (e.g. electric torch)
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tombogan03884 on August 20, 2009, 12:07:36 AM
Electric torch could be high tech arson ;D
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: Rob10ring on August 20, 2009, 01:07:43 AM
Oops! Yeah, it's late. Sorry about the poor grammar.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: tt11758 on August 21, 2009, 05:06:00 PM
My name is tt, and I open carried today.
Ok, so I open carried only to my early morning job, and then only as an homage to my boss there who, the day after getting his CCW, open caried to work at the station all day yesterday.
I did go back to the pocket holster before reporting to job #2, however. Still more comfortable NOT having people know for sure.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: MikeBjerum on August 22, 2009, 06:50:43 PM
I spent a year in Minneapolis last Thursday, and carried the whole time. I have a Bianchi IWB that isn't tuckable, so I just pull the dress shirt out in that small area.
I have practiced the draw, and it is fast. I don't need to use both hands. I just come up with my thumb under the shirt, wrap it around the grip, and by the time I have my whole hand on the the grip the shirt is completely free.
To me it was very easy to see I was carrying, but I only saw one confirmation that others could. It was insurance license continuing education, and in the ethics section a topic led to the instructor (from Texas) asked if Minnesota has the castle law. I was the only one to respond ... I carry on the right side, and for the meeting I was sitting on what was my right hand end of the table (on the center aisle) where the speakers could see me easily ... When I answered that Minnesota did, and she had to explain to most others what the castle law is, she looked back at me and winked. Now ... I didn't just fall of the turnip truck, so I know that this babe wasn't taken in by my athletic physic and charming good looks ;)
One nice thing I learned about this style of carry is that when I needed to stop for gas after 10 PM, and some less than polite customers arrived, I just tucked my shirt in. In five seconds I can go from concealed to open or back again.
Have I ever explained to you how much I hate the city? I spent eight years in the LA basin of southern Cal and hated every minute of it ... To this day I'm surprised I didn't run away from home. Maybe that is why my mom sent me "back home" every summer to work and spend time with relatives.
Title: Re: Open Carry vs Concealed Carry
Post by: 1911 Junkie on August 22, 2009, 07:55:13 PM
You were wearing the "UPS" uniform, weren't you? ;D
Dress shirt and tie, brand new Wranglers that actually fit (a rarity around here right now), and highly polished black boots ... oh yea, and a SS S&W 1911 in a tan Bianchi ;)