The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: MAUSERMAN on July 04, 2009, 12:44:23 AM
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I own a ruger PC9 i have nothing bad to say about the rifle but AR 9mm carbine seems like a good build idea. I would like some info from you guys that own both types of carbines, and if some of you have pics please post them.
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Did you see the one in Kilopaparomeo's Porn thread ?
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I have a 9mm in an AR format. It is very fun and very fast. The bad thing is the AR platform was not designed for such a short cartridge and is prone to failures. I did have an ASA AR 9mm that was horrible. I couldn't get the thing to run more than 3rds without choking. It took Uzi mags (adapted of course). I ended up selling it (full disclosure of what a POS it was but the guy wanted it anyway) and bought a Bushmaster in 9mm. It works pretty well, only 1 or 2 failures in a couple hundred rounds.
Probably the best advice is to buy a carbine built around the 9mm round. I have heard good things about the Beretta CX4 Storm; light, fast, reliable, easy to use and mags are still pretty cheap. Might want to check them out.
http://www.cx4storm.com/
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As I have asked before, why do you want a carbine based on an underpowered pistol cartridge, and a 9mm is pushig it for handgun SD? It makes good sense in an SMG. It makes little sense in a carbine unless you want accuracy without penetration. Otherwise you get all the concealability of a rifle and all the power of a pistol. Rant over.
Serious advice. I am no great fan of kel-tec, but they do have a pistol carbine that makes sense. Their SU2000 (I think). The idea here is to build a two gun combo with interchangeable mags. You choose your caliber, 9mm, .40 etc, then choose your brand, Glock, Sig etc. The rifle will accept the pistol mags. This strikes me as a useful and innovative idea. I wish someone other than Kel-tec had devised it but lots of folks love them. Its like the old .45 Colt rifle/pistol combos of the west. Not ideal, but a practical SHTF option.
FQ13
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As I have asked before, why do you want a carbine based on an underpowered pistol cartridge, and a 9mm is pushig it for handgun SD? It makes good sense in an SMG. It makes little sense in a carbine unless you want accuracy without penetration. Otherwise you get all the concealability of a rifle and all the power of a pistol. Rant over.
FQ13
How about because they are fun to shoot. Is that good enough reason? Not everything has to be about concealability and self defense.
Sometimes we shoot for fun. ::)
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Oh yeah, fun. What is this fun of which you speak? I thought we were all about zombies and killer robots from space. :-[ ;D
If its fun, then hell yeah. 9mm is cheap, no recoil (to speak of) and pretty accurate. Buy away.
FQ13
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I had a Colt AR 9mm, for a couple of years, it was accurate and fun. Bowling pins at 50 yards was a hoot. It ran 100% and I evn invested in some IMI carbine only ammo, that stuff was hot!! I won it in a drawing and later traded it and 300bucks for my M1A, The gun dealer still has it. If I had known the ban was coming, I should have held on to it, as they skyrocketed to 1600 + bucks.
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So far the pro's out way the con's. I like to have fun but my real reason is for my chic to have something other than a pistol to rely on. Maybe some 9mm +p ammo and a pair of 30rd sticks will keep safe. I dont think my Moss 500 would work well with her 125lb size frame, hell she's 5 foot 4 12ga is way to much.
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So far the pro's out way the con's. I like to have fun but my real reason is for my chic to have something other than a pistol to rely on. Maybe some 9mm +p ammo and a pair of 30rd sticks will keep safe. I dont think my Moss 500 would work well with her 125lb size frame, hell she's 5 foot 4 12ga is way to much.
Technically speaking the 12 Ga would NOT be to much, Former NRA President Sandy Frohman is about that size, as is the Lady from Barnes Bullet Co. and they BOTH hunt African game with .375 and larger calibers. They and many other women shoot Skeet, trap and birds with 12 guage as well.
But for practical purposes like you mention the pistol caliber Carbine is great. The AR is a great platform because once she learns one version she can transition to the others with out problem.
The BIGGEST thing will be reliability though, when you get the build done, if you do not trust it to go bang 100% leave her the PC9 and keep the AR for your own amusement.
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So far the pro's out way the con's. I like to have fun but my real reason is for my chic to have something other than a pistol to rely on. Maybe some 9mm +p ammo and a pair of 30rd sticks will keep safe. I dont think my Moss 500 would work well with her 125lb size frame, hell she's 5 foot 4 12ga is way to much.
20 will work fine. There is a great, and almost mandatory, hour long Mas Ayoob pod cast answering everything you ever wanted to know about shot gun SD. I forget who posted it, maybe Eric. Anyway, listen to it. The consensus was that for civilian use, 15 yards and under, and not shooting through wind sheilds and the like, there was no real advantage to the 12 over the 20. In fact the reverse was true do to low recoil. Do a search, give it a listen. The maverick is a nice gun for about two bills (though I hate the safety. My solution is not to use it and leave it loaded on an empty chamber with the safety off) and Mossies and 870's in 20 aren't that much more. They also can become a skeet gun with just a barrel change. Fun practice for cheap.
FQ13
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20 will work fine. There is a great, and almost mandatory, hour long Mas Ayoob pod cast answering everything you ever wanted to know about shot gun SD. I forget who posted it, maybe Eric. Anyway, listen to it. The consensus was that for civilian use, 15 yards and under, and not shooting through wind sheilds and the like, there was no real advantage to the 12 over the 20. In fact the reverse was true do to low recoil. Do a search, give it a listen. The maverick is a nice gun for about two bills (though I hate the safety. My solution is not to use it and leave it loaded on an empty chamber with the safety off) and Mossies and 870's in 20 aren't that much more. They also can become a skeet gun with just a barrel change. Fun practice for cheap.
FQ13
FQ, he ALREADY has the 12 Ga. (for which ammo is a little easier to find) and he already has one pistol cal carbine so he can go ahead and have the fun and bragging rights of the AR build, but if it isn't 100% he can fall back on the other carbine.
Also there is reduced recoil ammo option for the 12 ga.
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FQ, he ALREADY has the 12 Ga. (for which ammo is a little easier to find) and he already has one pistol cal carbine so he can go ahead and have the fun and bragging rights of the AR build, but if it isn't 100% he can fall back on the other carbine.
Also there is reduced recoil ammo option for the 12 ga.
Tom, he was talking about one for the GF. I didn't presume that she had gun borrowing priviledges. (Southern gentleman and all that ;D). Seriousley, Marlin used to make a 9mm and .44 mag carbine a while back, and ruger made a supersized 10/22 in .44 mag that was supposed to have a pretty mellow recoil. I've not shot either, just throwing them out there. I love other people asking "what gun should I buy" questions as it lets us live vicariously. Let's see, $1,000 in my pocket and what shall I do with it......? ;D
FQ13
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Tom, he was talking about one for the GF. I didn't presume that she had gun borrowing priviledges. (Southern gentleman and all that ;D). Seriousley, Marlin used to make a 9mm and .44 mag carbine a while back, and ruger made a supersized 10/22 in .44 mag that was supposed to have a pretty mellow recoil. I've not shot either, just throwing them out there. I love other people asking "what gun should I buy" questions as it lets us live vicariously. Let's see, $1,000 in my pocket and what shall I do with it......? ;D
FQ13
Nit to pick. The Marlins were the Camp 9 and Camp 45 they did not take "high cap" magazines but I heard something about a conversion to Glock mags. It was Ruger that made the little Deerslayer 44 Mag Carbine. They have all been discontinued but are available used around $450
I don't know anyone who used the Marlins but I never heard anything bad about the Rugers.