The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Badgersmilk on July 07, 2009, 09:02:35 AM
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Please read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland
While not a great caliber, sure looks like a reliable rifle they issue all their men! http://www.biggerhammer.net/sigamt/550/550techinspection/
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The gun may be fairly new but the Swiss attitudes are not, they are simply maintaining the attitudes that made their Pikemen and Crossbow men the most sought after troops of the Renaissance.
There is a REASON they have Protected the Popes for 600 years or so.
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Pretty cool Badger. Thanks for another interesting read.
I still consider the good old U.S. of A. to be the top dog nation on the planet. We'll see if it stays that way or if BHO ends our #1 status in very short order.
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Look at there crime stats. Even with all the guns, knife assaults and murders are double gun ones. You telling me that having guns doesn't lead to crime? Why, if our politicians weren't mentally handicapped, we could show them this info and get some stuff fixed. While mandatory training sucks, government sponsored training sounds great.
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Home invasion "Hot burglaries" are nearly non existent
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Kind of sad how they would shoot down US Bombers in WW2 who entered their airspace but let the Nazi's run tons of people by rail through their country!!! >:( Flew over Switzerland while I was stationed in Italy. Beautiful place from 35,000 feet up. The only mountains that I have found as impressive are the Tetons in Wyoming IMHO.
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pretty cool country also ;D
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While mandatory training sucks, government sponsored training sounds great.
Not to mock, but that line is a true classic! The pessimist sees mandatory conscription. The optimist see's free military training, a free gun, and physical conditioning courtesy of the state! ;D ;D ;D
FQ13 who is still ROFL
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Not to mock, but that line is a true classic! The pessimist sees mandatory conscription. The optimist see's free military training, a free gun, and physical conditioning courtesy of the state! ;D ;D ;D
FQ13 who is still ROFL
Just like the regular military, once you throw conscripts in with the volunteers, the bad apples start spoiling the batch. Why waste free training, weapons, and PT on the jackasses of society?
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1. Barrel life: Test procedure
1.1 Firing sequence
The 15,000 rounds of the endurance trial shall be fired in strings of 100 shots in the following sequence:
20 rounds single-shot
20 rounds 3-shot burst
20 rounds fully automatic with measurement of cyclic rate
20 rounds 3-shot burst
20 rounds fully automatic
All 100 rounds within 60 seconds. Firing shall alternate between the normal hip and shoulder positions, with subsequent cooling of the hot weapon in water.
As a Sig556 owner, and Eric has also done a torture test, with a thumbs up.
Why yes, it is a fine rifle, that will go bang when asked to do so. Again and again, and yes,.. again...
Mine is stamped Exeter, NH, BTW ;)
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Just like the regular military, once you throw conscripts in with the volunteers, the bad apples start spoiling the batch. Why waste free training, weapons, and PT on the jackasses of society?
That depends on the army and the conscripts, more than half the US troops who served in WWII were draftee's and that worked out OK, Where as during Vietnam the majority of draftees went to Germany or Korea. According to the book "Stolen Valor" the majority of troops who served in Vietnam were enlisted, not drafted, but morale suffered just the same.
The armies where conscript forces suck are the ones that do not maintain a strong cadre of NCO's, but like the Soviets and Arabs require all decision making to be done by officers. That is why the Arabs can never seem to beat the Israeli's. Any Army with a weak NCO corp will lose to an Army like The US, England, or Germany with a long tradition of NCO Leadership.
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That depends on the army and the conscripts, more than half the US troops who served in WWII were draftee's and that worked out OK, Where as during Vietnam the majority of draftees went to Germany or Korea. According to the book "Stolen Valor" the majority of troops who served in Vietnam were enlisted, not drafted, but morale suffered just the same.
The armies where conscript forces suck are the ones that do not maintain a strong cadre of NCO's, but like the Soviets and Arabs require all decision making to be done by officers. That is why the Arabs can never seem to beat the Israeli's. Any Army with a weak NCO corp will lose to an Army like The US, England, or Germany with a long tradition of NCO Leadership.
Tom is 100% right. (again did I just type this?). Even the vaunted spetnaz had its ranks filled with the cream of the conscript crop. Strong, tough and smart, but still green and wanting to go home. The problem with an authoritarian regime is that it fails to delegate. It fears giving power to its subordinates as it fears they will turn on the state. That's why a US Marine light colonel has discretion a Soviet two star could only dream about. Its also why its so symbolically important that I just bought an AR. Its not like I am going to try to bring down the government. It is that in our system, we trust people like me (us) to own military grade weaponry. Why? The state is not (yet) so afraid of its people that it disarms them.The same is true in militaries. When the military is a viable career track, when those with seniority are trusted, when a nation does not fear its troops, that you build the organizational structure that makes modern warfare effective. The Russians weren't so butal in Chechnya (or the Pakis in the tribal zones) because they are evil. Its because they have ameteur armies and if you want to take a village you shell the daylights out of it first because you aren't able to do anything fancy. Its like comparing ARs to AKs. The AR is a better weapon. It just takes a well trained and equipped soldier to keep it running. you can give an AK to anyone and they'll be fine with it. The difference is in what kind of soldier you have. That ultimately depends on the political culture of a nation.
FQ13
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Well the Sig556 is on my list of wants.
Not to mock, but that line is a true classic! The pessimist sees mandatory conscription. The optimist see's free military training, a free gun, and physical conditioning courtesy of the state! ;D ;D ;D
FQ13 who is still ROFL
I for one wouldn't mind if we had a Militia setup like the swiss! A couple of years of military life would due a lot of these modern day gang bangers and our country some real good!
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Well the Sig556 is on my list of wants. I for one wouldn't mind if we had a Militia setup like the swiss! A couple of years of military life would due a lot of these modern day gang bangers and our country some real good!
Considering the "trade craft" they have to practice as drug dealers it might not be all bad for the military either.
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Well the Sig556 is on my list of wants. I for one wouldn't mind if we had a Militia setup like the swiss! A couple of years of military life would due a lot of these modern day gang bangers and our country some real good!
Like I've said before, people don't change. You deny anyone with a criminal background entry into the Militia, then when these criminals go around try to terrorize the public, they'll run into Militia members eventually. That would do them some good. I've not been in the military, but if I wanted to help the gang banger wannabees, I'd recruit them while they were young. Hopefully when they went back to their old neighborhoods they'd realize how stupid their 'boizes' are, and leave that life behind. The whole Militia thing the Swiss have going on helps their society not because they train for war, but because it instills responsibility on the members of the public. And not just responsibility as in a job or an obligation, but for the protection of their way of life. And that Sig556 is a nice weapon, my only complain is they don't seem as well balanced as other rifles. But it would be my second or third choice for a .223 carbine.
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"After firing 1000 or 7500 rounds respectively: - fully strip the weapon and clean it thoroughly"
ANY rifle that will do 7500 rounds between cleanings is OK in my book! (Note its an AK style action)
The Swiss have government sponsored rifle ranges in most towns, and encourage all citizens to go there as a weekend activity. While the men are required to enlist, women have the option as well.
UTOPIA!
Swiss family taking the boat for a weekend of sailing? COULD BE! ;D
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Patrouillenboot_80_-_Schweizer_Armee_-_Steel_Parade_2006.jpg/664px-Patrouillenboot_80_-_Schweizer_Armee_-_Steel_Parade_2006.jpg)
"In American society, firearms take on a sinister reputation from the nightly news and excessively-violent movies. In Switzerland, firearms symbolize a wholesome, community activity. The typical weekend shooting festival brings out the entire family. By the range will be a huge tent where scores or even hundreds of people are eating, drinking, and socializing. With colorful banners of the Cantons and of the rifle clubs fluttering in the wind, the melody of rifle fire blends with Alpine music and cow bells. Event sponsors may include banks, supermarkets, watch makers, and Die Post—the telephone and postal system.
Actually, for those who think that target shooting is more fun than golf, Switzerland is anything but “dull.” By car or by train, you see shooting ranges all over the country, but only a few golf courses. If there is a Schuetzenfest in town, you will find rifles slung on hat racks in restaurants, and you will encounter men and women, old and young, walking, biking, and taking the tram with rifles over the shoulder, to and from the range."
Quotes from:
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=2478
Brings a tear of jealousy to my eye.
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Our "postal system" ocassionally sponsors "shooting events" to. I dont think they're quite the same... :(