The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: LorenzChris on July 08, 2009, 09:21:47 AM
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Hey, i was just wondering what ya'll thought about H&K handguns, particularly the USP?
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Well madegun but the company hates you. 8)
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Very well made, accurate guns.
But they think you suck and they do hate you! ;D ;D
http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/20/hk-demotivational-madness/
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My feelings are that they are extremely well made polymer guns. Their fiberglass reinforced polymer is the strongest used in handguns today and I doubt you will find a more accurate off the shelf gun. You will pay significantly more for an HK compared to other polymer guns not to mention the very high price of their magazines, but you know you are holding a quality firearm when you pick up an HK. Having said that, the negative comments against HK generally have to do with the fact that they cater to the wants and needs of the military and police.....not the consumer. Their customer service isn't great as we are not their bread and butter. On the otherhand, their guns are so well made that you probably won't need them all that much and the guns are worth the money IMHO.
With respect to the USP, it's a great duty gun but terrible for concealed carry...way too large and bulky. They did come out with a USP Compact that is much better for CCW but have since introduced the HK 45C which is the next gun I have on my list. The HK 45c is perfect for 1911 aficionados like myself as the manual of arms is nearly identical, including thumb safety (assuming you choose that variation and not a LEM trigger). Another nice feature is that you can use the thumb safety as a decocker as well, which leads HK marketing people to call it the 1911 of the 21st Century. The gun is just a work of art and feels great in the hand....albeit not cheap. For 9mm or .40, the P2000SK is very nice and compact and the P30 for 9mm only is nice, but not as concealable as the previous two I mentioned.
Great guns if you don't mind spending the money.
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thanks for the input.
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The HK USP Compact in 9mm is a nice gun. This was my wife's choice for her first conceal carry gun (purse carry). She found it to be too heavy after carrying it for a year. On my scale it weighs 29.85oz loaded (10 rounds). She switched to a J-frame 16.9oz.
Should be fine to carry on the belt. Expensive however.
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Some models of HK pistols are fitted with RFID tracking devices. I would not own one.
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I have carried a HK USP 45c for several years. I truely love that little gun. "Liittle" however is a term you can only use when comparing it to the full sized USP 45. It would be more appropriate to call it "midsized". It carrys 8 45acp rounds double stacked plus one in the tube so it is wide, just like all double stacked pistols. I have used it as a primary concealed carry weapon and in IDPA competition. It has never failed me in the field and I trust it with my life.
I also have a full sized USP 45 that I use in 3-gun competition. It carrys 12 rounds plus 1. With the 2 extra magazines I carry I have 37 rounds to destroy the pistol portions of a match.
Expensive? Yes. But how much is your life worth? You can always buy a Glock. ::)
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There are to many equally high quality manufacturers for me to waste my money with a company that does not appreciate the civilian market.
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If you plan to keep it I would simply repeat what has been said about great quality and accuracy, then add beautiful asthetics, then comment on their poor customer care.
If you one day plan to relieve yourself of it, I have seen that they have less resale value than other guns in its price range.
On a side note, they have a program for pilots of major airlines to purchase USP 40c at cost.
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Never heard anything but good about the guns. Never heard anything but bad about the company.
If they don't want my "civilian" business, I'll be happy not to give it to them.
Pretty dumb attitude. They are missing out on a huge market segment. Just my personal opinion.
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I know this will seem hypocritical but even though I really like the two HKs I own I will not buy another. I plan to only purchase American made weapons from now on, so that there will be american gun manufactures in the future.
No Glocks, no Sigs, no HKs, no CZs, no Tikkas, no Sakos, no Benellis, no Taurus, no SKBs, no Hublu, Fratelli Bertuzzi, no Serbu, no Steyr, no Walther, no Bersa, no Armsco, no EAA, no Franchi, .....
You get the point
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I know this will seem hypocritical but even though I really like the two HKs I own I will not buy another. I plan to only purchase American made weapons from now on, so that there will be american gun manufactures in the future.
No Glocks, no Sigs, no HKs, no CZs, no Tikkas, no Sakos, no Benellis, no Taurus, no SKBs, no Hublu, Fratelli Bertuzzi, no Serbu, no Steyr, no Walther, no Bersa, no Armsco, no EAA, no Franchi, .....
You get the point
Noted and adopted.
Thanks for making me think about my choices and making the right decisions in the future.
It's not really even a sacrifice. American gun manufacturers put out some fine weapons. I really appreciate you making me stop to think. I have been making an effort to look for and buy American in other aspects of my life, I fell pretty dumb for not applying the same logic to firearms purchases.
Thanks again from a new convert. I hope that your post makes others rethink their future purchases as well.
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I know this will seem hypocritical but even though I really like the two HKs I own I will not buy another. I plan to only purchase American made weapons from now on, so that there will be american gun manufactures in the future.
No Glocks, no Sigs, no HKs, no CZs, no Tikkas, no Sakos, no Benellis, no Taurus, no SKBs, no Hublu, Fratelli Bertuzzi, no Serbu, no Steyr, no Walther, no Bersa, no Armsco, no EAA, no Franchi, .....
You get the point
Sig is made in Exeter NH, I believe they bought out the parent Swiss company. And I heard, probably on here, that while Glock is Austrian owned the ones we get are made in Georgia, I would look a little closer at Serbu as well as I believe they are in Fl.
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I have never actually fired one, but I just don't get the H&K thing. The fit and finish look great and they're used by some of the MOST serious operators, but the fact is, for a putz like me I just can't justify the extra 3 or 400 dollars for the name.
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I know this will seem hypocritical but even though I really like the two HKs I own I will not buy another. I plan to only purchase American made weapons from now on, so that there will be american gun manufactures in the future.
No Glocks, no Sigs, no HKs, no CZs, no Tikkas, no Sakos, no Benellis, no Taurus, no SKBs, no Hublu, Fratelli Bertuzzi, no Serbu, no Steyr, no Walther, no Bersa, no Armsco, no EAA, no Franchi, .....
You get the point
Which companies are American then? Last I heard, S&W was owned by a Brittish company. With all of the foreign investors, are there any more 100% American guns?
As far as the HK USP, I have one from when they first hit the market. It's a good gun and I only paid what a Glock was going for back then. I wouldn't pay what they ask now.
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Which companies are American then? Last I heard, S&W was owned by a Brittish company. With all of the foreign investors, are there any more 100% American guns?
http://sigsauer.com/AboutUs/Management.aspx
"The Swiss Industrial Group (SIG) sold SIGARMS® in October 2000, to Michael Lüke and Thomas Ortmeier, two German entrepreneurs. Mr. Lüke and Mr. Ortmeier, both successful in the industrial textile industry, were looking to expand into new business sectors.
German
http://ir.smith-wesson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=90977&p=irol-faq
Our stock became publicly traded when Saf-T-Hammer Corporation acquired Smith & Wesson Corporation from Tomkins PLC, a U.K. holding company on May 11, 2001. The new publicly traded company was named Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation.
American
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http://sigsauer.com/AboutUs/Management.aspx
"The Swiss Industrial Group (SIG) sold SIGARMS® in October 2000, to Michael Lüke and Thomas Ortmeier, two German entrepreneurs. Mr. Lüke and Mr. Ortmeier, both successful in the industrial textile industry, were looking to expand into new business sectors.
German
http://ir.smith-wesson.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=90977&p=irol-faq
Our stock became publicly traded when Saf-T-Hammer Corporation acquired Smith & Wesson Corporation from Tomkins PLC, a U.K. holding company on May 11, 2001. The new publicly traded company was named Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation.
American
Good to know. I still don't really care for S&W autos, but I love their revolvers. I know 2 separate cops who say that cops only carry S&W because they are forced to. One is forced to and the other carries a Sig. They both admit that the M&P feels good however.
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Well all i can add to this is I own Glocks,Rugers,Springfieldarmory,Bersa,Beretta,Taurus, and Eaa. All my guns are trust worthy and ready to do work. I bought my Springfield 1911's because its an all American piece of history, but there made in Brazil. So does it make them any less worthy i dont know, but I keep one at the ready at all times. ;)
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Some models of HK pistols are fitted with RFID tracking devices. I would not own one.
Tom, why? Cite your source?
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Sig is made in Exeter NH, I believe they bought out the parent Swiss company. And I heard, probably on here, that while Glock is Austrian owned the ones we get are made in Georgia, I would look a little closer at Serbu as well as I believe they are in Fl.
I agree. When they changed the name from SigArms back to SigSauer was the mark of the new ownership team - so far as I know, it is an American company now, not owned or operated by the Swiss. They do own European components as well - tail wagging the dog as it were when the subsidiary buys the parent, which is what I believe I read happened in 2007.
Updated: According to Hoover's, Sig Sauer is privately owned with owners not listed, $100Mill in sales, 300 employees; here are the officers:
SIG SAUER Executives
Title Name & Bio Contact
President and CEO Ron J. Cohen
VP Operations Joseph (Joe) Shoer
CFO Tim Scullin
From Business week: http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=3456327 (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=3456327)
SIG SAUER, Inc.
Company Overview
SIG SAUER, Inc. manufactures firearms for military, law enforcement, and commercial markets in the United States and internationally. It offers pistols and rifles. The company also provides firearms accessories, apparel, CD/DVD training, and knives. In addition, it offers firearms training and courses for self-defense through its academy to corporate customers and law enforcement agencies on a contract basis. The company offers its products through dealers in the United States and Canada. SIG SAUER, Inc. was founded in 1985 as SIGARMS, Inc. and changed its name to SIG SAUER, Inc. in October 2007. The company is headquartered in Exeter, New Hampshire.
18 Industrial Drive
Exeter, NH 03833
United States
Founded in 1985
Phone: 603-772-2302
Fax: 603-772-9082
www.sigsauer.com
Key Executives
Mr. Ron J. Cohen - Chief Executive Officer and President - Age: 47
Mr. Tim Scullin - Chief Financial Officer
Mr. Scott Fallavollita - Vice President of Operations
Mr. Pete Kujawski - Vice President of International Sales
Mr. Mark Kresser - Director of Commercial Sales and Marketing
Compensation as of Fiscal Year 2009.
From American Police Beat: http://www.apbweb.com/corporate-spotlight-products-menu-40/1162-sig-sauer-inc-secures-a-306-million-pistol-contract-by-the-us-armys-material-command.html (http://www.apbweb.com/corporate-spotlight-products-menu-40/1162-sig-sauer-inc-secures-a-306-million-pistol-contract-by-the-us-armys-material-command.html)
Corporate Spotlight
Sig Sauer, Inc. Secures a $306 Million Pistol Contract By The U.S. Army's Material Command E-mail
Sig Sauer Logo EXETER, NH (April 28, 2009) SIG SAUER, Inc. announced today that it has secured a multi-year contract to provide pistols to the U.S. Army's Material Command. The potential value for all quantities and the related customer support package is $306 million. The initial order of 55,890 units is to be released as the standard sidearm for the entire Colombian National Police force. Shipments are to begin immediately with a second release of 42,000 pistols to follow.
Ron Cohen, President and CEO, stated that he is proud that SIG SAUER's long standing reputation for superior reliability and quality has been recognized with this exceptional contract. Moreover, it provides an opportunity for SIG SAUER to continue to expand its manufacturing facilities and create U.S. jobs at a time when other companies are downsizing and exporting jobs overseas. Mr. Cohen further stated that the breadth of SIG customers is evidence of the worldwide acceptance and demand for SIG SAUER products. These customers include numerous elite law enforcement, military, and government agencies (e.g. the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Secret Service, Navy Criminal Investigation Service (NCIS), U.S. Navy SEALs, U.S. Air Force OSI, British SAS, French National Police, and the Colombian National Police).
Employing over 350 skilled workers at its Exeter, NH facility, the company has been on a continuous program of expansion and growth. State-of-the-art automated machines now populate the majority of the facility, the result of over $30 million dollars invested over the past four years.
About SIG SAUER, Inc.
SIG SAUER, Inc. is the largest member of a worldwide business group of firearms manufacturers that includes J.P. Sauer & Sohn and Blaser GmbH in Germany and Swiss Arms AG in Switzerland. This global network of companies gives SIG SAUER a world-class firearms knowledge base, unparalleled design expertise, and extensive manufacturing capacity, enabling the company to respond quickly and effectively to changing market conditions and the needs of its military, law enforcement, and commercial markets worldwide. SIG SAUER is an ISO 9001: 2000 certified company with over 350 employees. For more information on SIG SAUER or any of its products, or the SIG SAUER Academy, log on to www.sigsauer.com.
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I'll take two Glocks for the price of one H&K. ;)
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I used to have a P2000, which was a great gun. I traded when I decided I didn't really like the paddle mag release, the cost of the magazines, and the company's attitude about "useful" citizen-owners.
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Well all i can add to this is I own Glocks,Rugers,Springfieldarmory,Bersa,Beretta,Taurus, and Eaa. All my guns are trust worthy and ready to do work. I bought my Springfield 1911's because its an all American piece of history, but there made in Brazil. So does it make them any less worthy i dont know, but I keep one at the ready at all times. ;)
The Springfield XD's are made in Croatia. I wonder how many guns are 100% made in America.
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I wonder how many guns are 100% made in America.
I'm guessing four manufacturers..........Nighthawk Custom and Wilson Combat....both out of Berryville, Arkansas as well as Les Baer in Iowa and Ed Brown out of Missouri.
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I'm guessing two manufacturers..........Nighthawk Custom and Wilson Combat....both out of Berryville, Arkansas
A fact that I find interesting about these two.....AR has one of the lowest standards of living and median income in the US with two of the most overpriced and expensive firearms manufacturers in the country in their backyard.
Can the people building these guns actually afford one? I can afford one but would never, ever drop two large on a handgun.
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Aren't S&W guns all manufactured in Springfield, MA or Houlton, ME? I think so. What about Ruger in AZ? Maybe its six manufacturers?
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Ruger has facilities in Newport, NH.
As to S&W, I'm pretty sure a majority of their manufacturing is done in MA with the Walther PPK and PPK/S stuff done up in ME. Not positive but I think so.
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Ruger make it's revolvers and some pistols in NH. Their other manufacturing is in Prescott AZ.
I liked the XD...but made in Croatia? Hard to buy it now. My other choice in a .45 was Sig. I am still researching though. What about Kimber?
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Ruger make it's revolvers and some pistols in NH. Their other manufacturing is in Prescott AZ.
I liked the XD...but made in Croatia? Hard to buy it now. My other choice in a .45 was Sig. I am still researching though. What about Kimber?
Yonkers, NY....too much money though, at least for my tastes!
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If you plan to keep it I would simply repeat what has been said about great quality and accuracy, then add beautiful asthetics, then comment on their poor customer care.
If you one day plan to relieve yourself of it, I have seen that they have less resale value than other guns in its price range.
On a side note, they have a program for pilots of major airlines to purchase USP 40c at cost.
Hummmm, wheels turning, brain-a-burning! Lets see which good buddy (especially now) I might butter-up to. There is one redhead lady that I like to talk to anyway. What a great lead in. She is an international 777 pilot. Hummm, wheelsaturnin, brainsaburnin.
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I guess S&W's shotguns are made in Turkey.
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Strap on your foil lined armadillo hats and read this boys! Theres plenty to read about RFID out there. This picture is an HK, Sig uses them to, dont know about others. As far as "Made in America", I didnt notice until I brought it home, but the Savage I just bought say's Made in Canada for Savage Arms in Mass, USA. :(
READ: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-rfid-tags-could-be-used
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q45/quik_z/DSCN0872a.jpg)
"China’s national ID cards, for instance, are encoded with what most people would consider a shocking amount of personal information, including health and reproductive history, employment status, religion, ethnicity and even the name and phone number of each cardholder’s landlord. More ominous still, the cards are part of a larger project to blanket Chinese cities with state-of-the-art surveillance technologies."
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I'll bet your thinking. People will never allow themselves to be "coded"!
"The Food and Drug Administration in the US has approved the use of RFID chips in humans.[73] Some business establishments have also started to chip customers, such as the Baja Beach nightclub in Barcelona."
All you have to do to start the ball rolling is make it "trendy"!
Removed from a credit card. "Whats in YOUR wallet?"
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Paypass_chip_front.png/180px-Paypass_chip_front.png)
H&K, and Sig has used them to make guns for police departments that "only an officer can fire". So in reverse... A chip in your gun could be made to NOT fire within 30 feet of an officer, or other RF signal carrier. Hmmm.
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I had heard that the primary use of the RFID chips currently used specifically in HK pistols was inventory control. As a former unit armorer I can see that this would greatly reduce work in the stock room or a PD's arms room, Scan a pallet or storage rack and you know exactly which weapons are present, but then so doesn't any one else with an RF scanner. This technology may be great for organizations but it is a security threat when forced on civilians.
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Just another reason to avoid the plastic guns. I'll stick with the old reliable ones and leave the rest....
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If you are concerned about RFIDs in your guns, you are going to love the new US passports.
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If you are concerned about RFIDs in your guns, you are going to love the new US passports.
Don't have a passport and have no need for one. They can do whatever they want with those!
;)
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Don't have a passport and have no need for one. They can do whatever they want with those!
;)
I have a suggestion of exactly what they can do with them ;D
NH is one of the States that refused on Constitutional grounds to participate in the "National ID Card" program.
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Some say H&K has great quality, some say they're very unreliable. Just looking at this one picture I see mold marks all over, flash, and wavey surface finishes. Signs of quality?
(http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q45/quik_z/DSCN0872a.jpg)
The case the gun's in actually shows better finish quality. ;D Check out that fine looking hinge.
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Just another reason to avoid the plastic guns. I'll stick with the old reliable ones and leave the rest....
They put rfids on railroad cars and horses, so plastic or steel or flesh, so they can be on metal guns too.
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They put rfids on railroad cars and horses, so plastic or steel or flesh, so they can be on metal guns too.
True!
I had a TS clearance in the military too, they can find me if they need too. For all I know, that lump behind my ear was put there by someone wearing a black cloak with a dagger.... ;D
They're gonna be pretty bored when they go back through my history though, at least the last twenty five years. The first twenty seven were HELL on WHEELS..... ;)
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Boy this is developing into a long thread very quickly!
I had heard that the primary use of the RFID chips currently used specifically in HK pistols was inventory control. As a former unit armorer I can see that this would greatly reduce work in the stock room or a PD's arms room, Scan a pallet or storage rack and you know exactly which weapons are present, but then so doesn't any one else with an RF scanner. This technology may be great for organizations but it is a security threat when forced on civilians.
That is exactly what an RFID chip is..... just like the ones they implant in animals to Identify them if they are lost.... nothing more... nothing less.
The chips that keep the gun from only being fired by an authorized individual is something entirely different.
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http://zapatopi.net/afdb/afdbdiagram.pdf
;D
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I rather buy a Sig. :D
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That is a very intelligent safety alternative. Not so useful though when you are dead and your Ranger buddy needs to utilize your firearm. The dipshits need to reevaluate this alternative. I would not choose to lose my life over technology. :o