The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Snake45 on July 08, 2009, 12:41:15 PM
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Noticed the "tip" today about using a can of Easy-Off Oven Cleaner as a weapon. As I've been using this stuff for more than a decade to remove enamel paint from rare, restorable plastic model car bodies, I thought I'd give you my two cents on it.
The active ingredient in Easy-Off is lye. This is harmful stuff but hardly incapacitating. I routinely hold the model car body in my ungloved hand as I spray Easy-Off on, and then, about 20 minutes later, again as I brush the goop and the old paint off with an old toothbrush (which takes maybe 5 minutes). In both cases I just wash my hands in soap and hot water immediately thereafter and have never felt any discomfort whatsoever. I do have a friend, however, who was doing this once and got some of the stuff between his arm and the sink that he was leaning on for some period of time (in excess of 5 minutes). It DID eat into his flesh and left a wound that reminded me of a shark bite. (He was using a brand called Mr. Muscle but the MSDSs on the two products are nearly identical.) This gory wound caused him no pain at all while it was being inflicted (it hurt like hell later, of course).
The stuff would be nasty on or in your eyes and I ALWAYS wear eye protection when using it, even if nothing more than a $2 pair of sunglasses. Spray this stuff into someone's eyes and it WILL cause them eye damage--eventually--if they don't get it flushed out most rikki-tik. They will probably close their eyes but even so, I wouldn't count on this stuff keeping someone from cutting my throat or beating me to death with a pipe before it REALLY started to hurt.
And then there is the spray pattern. Easy-Off doesn't come out in a stream, it comes out in a spray, so you would have to be within a few inches--I'd say one foot at the very outside--of an attacker's eyes to have any effect at all. If the attacker is wearing glasses or "shades," he won't even know for several minutes (if at all) that you were spraying him with something you considered to be a "weapon."
As you can see I'm not too wild about the protective properties of this product, as IMHO it has just about zero stopping power. IF you can manage to give someone a good dose of it right in the face (the eyes, particularly), IMMEDIATELY take advantage of the situation and MOVE while he's blinking or reacting, so he doesn't just start attacking where you just were in blind fury. Get around him/behind him and get away (or bash him over the head with a chair, if you're feeling particularly dashing).
Multiple attackers and your weapon is Easy-Off? Rotsa Ruck, baby.
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Yeah, I saw this on the blog too. I also think it might be more trouble then its worth, but it will be interesting to see what other "alternative" weapons come out of the discussion on this thread
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Any thing you can get your hands on eric. I would bet good money there are a half dozen things within your reach right now that could do damage, including the laptop you were typing on. Its just another form of situational awareness.
FQ13.
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The pen is mightier than the sword.... If the pen is jammed into your opponents eye, ear canal, or chest.
A tightly rolled magazine or a hard cover book can serve as striking weapons. The most dangerous weapon is the mind of a determined person.
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Since you can't travel with the Easy Off can (explosive), you'd have to leave it when you flew home. I wonder if that same local convience store might sell a cheap pocket knife or steak knife that might cost the same of less than the oven cleaner (since you'd have to leave it too)?
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Since you can't travel with the Easy Off can (explosive), you'd have to leave it when you flew home. I wonder if that same local convience store might sell a cheap pocket knife or steak knife that might cost the same of less than the oven cleaner (since you'd have to leave it too)?
Good point. We get a bit obsessed with good gear here. I will admit to being a gear freak when it comes to camping, guns, fishing gear and cooking tools. In fact, I divide the world into two categories, gear and stuff. Gear you spend money on, stuff you buy the cheapest that will work. But the point about knives is well taken. A ginzu will do just as well as a randall if all you want to do is stick it in the guy's stomach and run like hell.
FQ13
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The problem with using Easy Off of any other commercial product to defend yourself is..."YOU WILL BE ARRESTED FOR FELONY ASSAULT"
You cannot use acids, lyes and the like to defend yourself!
If the product blinds or otherwise leaves permanent scarring you can also be charged with "MAIMING" which can get you an additional 20 YEAR SENTENCE!
Also YOU WILL BE SUED AND LOSE THAT SUIT.
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+1000 long762range. That is why mace is meant to incapacitate, not maim nor harm permanently.
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What about brake cleaner and a lighter. ;D ;D
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A couple days ago I read on Snopes about using wasp-killer spray as a self defense weapon. A lot of the reasons why you shouldn't are the same for it and oven cleaner.
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Since you can't travel with the Easy Off can (explosive), you'd have to leave it when you flew home. I wonder if that same local convience store might sell a cheap pocket knife or steak knife that might cost the same of less than the oven cleaner (since you'd have to leave it too)?
How about tactical pens? Has anyone made it on a plane with one? Are they allowed?
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Your not allowed to take a screwdriver on a plane.
After making it all the way onto the plane, they refused to let me take a 2 piece fishing rod unless the flight attendant kept it in her possesion locked in a cabinet! Bare fishing rod, no hooks, or even a reel (had it custom made while in Minnisota and didnt want the baggage monkeys destroying it).
Everybody knows ninja's train with screw drivers and fishing rods right?
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The problem with using Easy Off of any other commercial product to defend yourself is..."YOU WILL BE ARRESTED FOR FELONY ASSAULT"
You cannot use acids, lyes and the like to defend yourself!
If the product blinds or otherwise leaves permanent scarring you can also be charged with "MAIMING" which can get you an additional 20 YEAR SENTENCE!
Also YOU WILL BE SUED AND LOSE THAT SUIT.
I think the one exception to that would be if you were in your kitchen, cleaning your oven and someone sneaks up and attacks you. You didn't plan on using something that would maim or permanently blind. You just happened to have it in your hand for it's intended purpose.
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I think the one exception to that would be if you were in your kitchen, cleaning your oven and someone sneaks up and attacks you. You didn't plan on using something that would maim or permanently blind. You just happened to have it in your hand for it's intended purpose.
Yeah....kinda like the little old lady out in California that brained a BG in the noggin with a can of Campbell's Beef Stew when he busted down her kitchen door.
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Yeah....kinda like the little old lady out in California that brained a BG in the noggin with a can of Campbell's Beef Stew when he busted down her kitchen door.
Here's the beef you SOB. ;D
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How about tactical pens? Has anyone made it on a plane with one? Are they allowed?
I've taken them on planes many times. I've only had a problem once, in LA: Bag went through, they sent it through a second time, searched it, removed the pen, send the bag and the tactical pen (Tom Anderson Ti Twister) through separately. They gave them back to me and let me continue. (actually, they gave me the bag, and the shoulder strap snagged the bowl the pen was in, sending it skittering across the marble floor. I winced, they shrugged and handed me the pen. I didn't find any damage)
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1724/tomandersonspicture9pk.jpg) (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/tomandersonspicture9pk.jpg/)
What pen might look like (not my exact model, but mine is of the same series)
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I've taken them on planes many times. I've only had a problem once, in LA: Bag went through, they sent it through a second time, searched it, removed the pen, send the bag and the tactical pen (Tom Anderson Ti Twister) through separately. They gave them back to me and let me continue. (actually, they gave me the bag, and the shoulder strap snagged the bowl the pen was in, sending it skittering across the marble floor. I winced, they shrugged and handed me the pen. I didn't find any damage)
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1724/tomandersonspicture9pk.jpg) (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/tomandersonspicture9pk.jpg/)
What pen might look like (not my exact model, but mine is of the same series)
Um, you are aware you could spend some serious time in the clink for trying to carry one on, right? A plain old Bic will work just as good and no prison time if they find it and wish to proscecute. You must have many enemies lying in wait to risk jail for this, Grasshopper! ;) Try the Bic, it will work until you get to the ninja store wherever you are going!
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Where's th crime with a tactical pen? Its not a probited item, no blades, cs or zip gun capabilty. Just a really strong pen. If it is a crime let us know but I don't see the violation. Now if you tryto carry on a lexa knife or something.......
FQ13
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Yeah....kinda like the little old lady out in California that brained a BG in the noggin with a can of Campbell's Beef Stew when he busted down her kitchen door.
Low sodium or regular?
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I've taken them on planes many times. I've only had a problem once, in LA: Bag went through, they sent it through a second time, searched it, removed the pen, send the bag and the tactical pen (Tom Anderson Ti Twister) through separately. They gave them back to me and let me continue. (actually, they gave me the bag, and the shoulder strap snagged the bowl the pen was in, sending it skittering across the marble floor. I winced, they shrugged and handed me the pen. I didn't find any damage)
Thanks Overload. Glad to hear the good news :)
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Low sodium or regular?
Extra chunky.
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Where's th crime with a tactical pen? Its not a probited item, no blades, cs or zip gun capabilty. Just a really strong pen. If it is a crime let us know but I don't see the violation. Now if you tryto carry on a lexa knife or something.......
FQ13
Um, have you dealt with losers given a little bit of power? Didn't you see that 14 year old girl tazed into 50 stiches for running away from an arguement with mom? Been through the line where they make my 80 year old parents take off their shoes and struggle to get them back on? Plus, I'm pretty sure in the court's eyes anything sold as a weapon will bring you grief. Imagine taking apart every ad and recommendation ever written for this pen and twisting it into nothing short of a pocket bazooka! ;D I can see the headlines of the "assault pen" you tried to carry on for gosh knows what neferious deed. If you start with the basic understanding that the whole searching and restricting of obviously non-muslim white people (yeah, yeah, I don't mean muslims or non whites are all anything, but any darn fool can see 80 year old Americans aren't a big danger) is absurd from the get-go, you gotta know they are going to come down on you like heck for any offense they can. Gotta prove that job is needed, don't ya know. Hey, carry what you wish, I'll try not to say told ya so after... Aw heck, no I won't! ;D
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Um, have you dealt with losers given a little bit of power? Didn't you see that 14 year old girl tazed into 50 stiches for running away from an arguement with mom? Been through the line where they make my 80 year old parents take off their shoes and struggle to get them back on? Plus, I'm pretty sure in the court's eyes anything sold as a weapon will bring you grief. Imagine taking apart every ad and recommendation ever written for this pen and twisting it into nothing short of a pocket bazooka! ;D I can see the headlines of the "assault pen" you tried to carry on for gosh knows what neferious deed. If you start with the basic understanding that the whole searching and restricting of obviously non-muslim white people (yeah, yeah, I don't mean muslims or non whites are all anything, but any darn fool can see 80 year old Americans aren't a big danger) is absurd from the get-go, you gotta know they are going to come down on you like heck for any offense they can. Gotta prove that job is needed, don't ya know. Hey, carry what you wish, I'll try not to say told ya so after... Aw heck, no I won't! ;D
Dang it, you're taking away all of my fun. Overload just told me that I could do it. Now you try to confuse the issue with a dose of reality. ;D
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Ha! And some here said reality wasn't my strong suit!
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Ha! And some here said reality wasn't my strong suit!
It's not, don't worry about it Kid. Do you have any guess how many thousands of people walk onto planes every day with metal pens ?
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So, there's no crime that you know of that would cause 'serious time in the clink", correct? I'm not sure you can tell from the picture, but it's an actual pen that writes and uses Parker refills. I should just be fearful of the gov workers abusing their power and making mistakes.
Noted.
In addition, I carry a titanium Fisher Space Pen and one of the new stainless steel Sharpies.
I also fly with a Wenger Clipper AT, which has no knife blade on it. I've been told I can't fly with it before they even examine it. When I ask why, and tell them there's no blade on it, they don't believe me and check themselves. They then hand it back and I continue on. If I had walking problems, I'd take a Canemasters cane with me on board.
I EDC a blade, and have studied what the knife regulations are in my home state. I expect I know more about the knife laws than any LE officer I come in contact with. I expect them to make a mistake.
Be clean, be friendly, be polite, and you shouldn't have any problems if you're not doing anything wrong.
Um, have you dealt with losers given a little bit of power? Didn't you see that 14 year old girl tazed into 50 stiches for running away from an arguement with mom? Been through the line where they make my 80 year old parents take off their shoes and struggle to get them back on? Plus, I'm pretty sure in the court's eyes anything sold as a weapon will bring you grief. Imagine taking apart every ad and recommendation ever written for this pen and twisting it into nothing short of a pocket bazooka! ;D I can see the headlines of the "assault pen" you tried to carry on for gosh knows what neferious deed. If you start with the basic understanding that the whole searching and restricting of obviously non-muslim white people (yeah, yeah, I don't mean muslims or non whites are all anything, but any darn fool can see 80 year old Americans aren't a big danger) is absurd from the get-go, you gotta know they are going to come down on you like heck for any offense they can. Gotta prove that job is needed, don't ya know. Hey, carry what you wish, I'll try not to say told ya so after... Aw heck, no I won't! ;D
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I EDC a blade, and have studied what the knife regulations are in my home state.
Me to, I never leave the house without a knife, a gun, a spare mag and a light. I feel naked without my knife, thus the desire for a Tac pen. I am also very happy that the regs fell our way regarding the assisted openers.
Thanks again Overload.
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I too detest all the silly crap it takes to get on a plane these days. When I flew a couple of months ago, I started to worry a little, waiting in the "search and seizure without probable cause line," about the surefire 6p-led I had in my carry-on. No crenulated bezel or anything, but I started to wonder. However, they sent me through without a word.