The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Badgersmilk on July 08, 2009, 01:25:10 PM
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Wanna good reason to NOT buy that next rifle? Taking the time to be carefull, and do things "right", each shot fired is taking 25-30 minutes. I'm 5 rounds into this so far...
Q. What is the barrel break-in procedure?
A. Although there may be different schools of thought on barrel break-in, this is what Precision Shooting Magazine recommends:
STEP 1 (repeated 10 times)
• Fire one round
• Push wet patches soaked with a powder solvent through the bore
• Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
• Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
• Push wet patches soaked with a copper solvent through the bore
• Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
• Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
• Push a patch with 2 drops of oil through the bore
STEP 2 (repeated 5 times)
• Fire a 3 shot group
• Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1 after each group
STEP 3 (repeat 5 times)
• Fire a 5 shot group
• Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1
They recommend the use of a patch with 2 drops of oil after the cleaning so that you are not shooting with a dry bore. It is also advisable to use a powder solvent and copper solvent from the same manufacturer to be sure they are chemically compatible.
Whats "weird" about Savage you ask? Look at this barrel.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010057.jpg?t=1247077299)
The waves are only visible if you look down the length of the barrel, cant see it from the side at all.
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Those marks are left from the buffing process.
The "Barrel break in" process is to remove fine burrs left from rifling and to get the grain of the metal to lay all in one direction after being distorted by machining. It's supposed to give a smoother bore for more consistent accuracy.
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Irv Shilen and several other custom barrel makers say barrel break-in isn't really necessary for most rifles.
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I always look forward to breaking in a new rifle, because it is a chance to run lead down the barrel (I do it as a part of my sighting in as well), fondle, make empty brass, get familure with, fondle, burn gunpowder, get comfortable with, fondle ... I see an adultry issue coming in my divorce ;)
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I'd like some wisdom on the barrel break in subject as well. This is for purely selfish reasons as I have a new and as yet unfired AR, but I also think it would be useful and interesting for the board. I've never done what Badger described. I've never known any one who has. I just take a gun out of the box, check the bore and chamber and shoot it. Never said "Darn! I should of run a brush every shot because I can't hit the broadside of a barn"! On the other hand, maybe I've been missing out. Any thoughts?
FQ13
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This is a topic that has been discussed on this forum and others thousands of times, and it always comes down to those that swear by it, those that refuse, and everyone else caught in the middle.
I do mine because some very good companies and shooters say do it. Even if it is not needed it leads to what I stated earlier. I love to shoot, and I need to sight the gun in and get used to it anyway, so why not do the break in procedure?
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I'd like some wisdom on the barrel break in subject as well. This is for purely selfish reasons as I have a new and as yet unfired AR, but I also think it would be useful and interesting for the board. I've never done what Badger described. I've never known any one who has. I just take a gun out of the box, check the bore and chamber and shoot it. Never said "Darn! I should of run a brush every shot because I can't hit the broadside of a barn"! On the other hand, maybe I've been missing out. Any thoughts?
FQ13
If you have a chrome lined barrel it will not do any good. Even in an unlined barrel it is most likely unnecessary as modern barrels are subjected to a heat treating process to releave the molecular tension built up during machining.
But as M58 points out, needed or not, it is an excuse for shooting and fondling ;D
P.S. Helpful or not it can't do any HARM.
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Though I definatly DONT think this is fun, I DO think the process is worth the end result. I feel a significant differance already in how smooth the patches and brush runs down the pipe. It IS visible as well when you hold the bore up to a light and look closely at the sides of the bore. VERY faint marks, BARELY visible in the bore are slowly disapearing more and more. They could only be seen at all when the bore is dry, and at certain angles.
I've never been disapointed, and am often very surprised how consistant rifles shoot having done this. Notice I havent even got the scope I ordered yet, and its mount (4 bolt, one piece, picitinny rail) is being made to order, & is still 2-3 weeks out. :( Doesnt matter, I'd never expect zero to be the same at the end of all this anyway.
I've always thought the same as Tom mentions on this. Chrome lined bores are hard enough I dont think this process means much to them (my humble opinion).
Tom, thanks for the heads up on the buffing process. I've never seen this on a barrel before. It's kinda neat, unless I pointed it out, I dont think anybody'd ever notice it.
Savage still does NOT impress me with their machining. The ejection port, & magazine well opening look like they were hacked out with an axe by a blind woodsman. Yet, I've read no less than half a dozen articles, and seen no less than 20 reviews saying these rifles are as accurate as money can buy... "Most accurate ever tested." - Outdoor Life.
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I wish you had a little better picture of the barrel, as it resembles the hammer forged markings on Steyr rifles and ruger 10/22 target model with the heavy barrel. Does it say hammer forged barrel anywhere in the literature?
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I've done the break in on rifles that I wanted max accuracy out of, because people smarter than I said to. I would just hate to lose accuracy because I got lazy.
If you have the barrel cryo treated, does that alleviate the need for doing the entire break in? That's what I have heard.
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I've done the break in on rifles that I wanted max accuracy out of, because people smarter than I said to. I would just hate to lose accuracy because I got lazy.
If you have the barrel cryo treated, does that alleviate the need for doing the entire break in? That's what I have heard.
What I've heard about Cryo. is that it does exactly the same thing as the Heat treat process that is already performed during manufacture.
Even if it DOES eliminate the need for break in, it costs $100-$200, as opposed to 10 rounds and some patches.
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Wanna good reason to NOT buy that next rifle? Taking the time to be carefull, and do things "right", each shot fired is taking 25-30 minutes. I'm 5 rounds into this so far...
Q. What is the barrel break-in procedure?
A. Although there may be different schools of thought on barrel break-in, this is what Precision Shooting Magazine recommends:
STEP 1 (repeated 10 times)
• Fire one round
• Push wet patches soaked with a powder solvent through the bore
• Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
• Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
• Push wet patches soaked with a copper solvent through the bore
• Push a brush through the bore (5 times in each direction)
• Push dry patches through the bore (2 times)
• Push a patch with 2 drops of oil through the bore
STEP 2 (repeated 5 times)
• Fire a 3 shot group
• Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1 after each group
STEP 3 (repeat 5 times)
• Fire a 5 shot group
• Repeat the cleaning procedure from STEP 1
They recommend the use of a patch with 2 drops of oil after the cleaning so that you are not shooting with a dry bore. It is also advisable to use a powder solvent and copper solvent from the same manufacturer to be sure they are chemically compatible.
Whats "weird" about Savage you ask? Look at this barrel.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010057.jpg?t=1247077299)
The waves are only visible if you look down the length of the barrel, cant see it from the side at all.
I've been looking at rifling broaches lately and this looks like the effect of a broach ( a tool that is run down the barrel with a hydraulic cylinder to cut the rifling). I may be wrong, but they do stretch the barrel which makes me think that this MAY caused by the rifling process.I wish you had a little better picture of the barrel, as it resembles the hammer forged markings on Steyr rifles and ruger 10/22 target model with the heavy barrel. Does it say hammer forged barrel anywhere in the literature?
and then again I may be wrong.
but if we don't get a possitive answer here at least we have diversity. ;D
oh! and where's the full length porn? good shot, but we like porn. :D
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Cryo treating relieves stress in the metal, and will help a barrel that is loosing zero as it gets hot from repeated shots (I've had it done to a few rifles. WORKS!) I didnt find anything about forging type, or any description of their machining at all. I'm surprised, usually thats a bragging point for companies. For as rough as the machining on the rest of the rifle is, I have to say. The chamber and bore of this rifle are likely the best I've seen. Really starting to take on a shine with all the cleaning. Glistens like a mirror inside so much its hard to focus your eyes on to inspect, hard to explain without seeing it (I'll try to get a picture tommarow).
After each cleaning all but the last three patches turn green after laying on the floor a while (copper residue), & Winchester Supreme is some DIRTY shootin stuff! LOTS of powder residue in the barrel after each shot.
When I first took the rifle apart it looked really clean. But inside the Accu-trigger housing I found about half a teaspoon of what I think was polishing compound. It wasnt grease, I rubbed it between two fingers and it felt like toothpast, NOT slippery at all. Though the saftey lever did have a little yellow grease on it inside. If you own a Savage make sure you take the trigger apart and inspect for this stuff! It's grey. I wouldnt have found it if I didnt take the trigger apart to do a little deburring and polishing.
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Ah hah. From Savage's web site. "button-rifled heavy varmint barrel".
Watch the video! IT'S GREAT! Even shows a barrel being made with these exact same marks on it outside!
http://www.bergarabarrels.com/process.html
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Ah hah. From Savage's web site. "button-rifled heavy varmint barrel".
Watch the video! IT'S GREAT! Even shows a barrel being made with these exact same marks on it outside!
http://www.bergarabarrels.com/process.html
I spent about ten minutes looking for this term before giving up. as I said before I was looking into rifling and found some info (though I can't find it now) about 'button rifling' and thought it might be caused by something like this.
good find
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Direct light, or even any more light than this and the reflections inside the barrel shine to much to focus on at all. This is about as clear a view as it gets.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010064.jpg?t=1247156594)
Chamber, and bolt face are impressive too. They sure dont waste much machining time outside these area's though. :( What keeps the costs down I guess.
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Based on the things you have complained about I would buy one ( .308 ) in a heart beat. I'd rather have a rifle that shot like hell but looked like crap, than the other way around.
(Not saying it looks bad, but your only complaints seem to be cosmetic )
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With you 100%. I bought it because its reputation as a shooter. From 5' it looks great. And with some time and a dremel tool I can clean up things Savage skipped, been working on it already. Just takes time. And the guns that much more fun to own knowing the time and attention to detail you've put into it. Having been a machinist, its just no fun to buy a rifle you cant take home & spend a little personal time with. I'm not as much complaining as offering a review, & information as I learn about a rifle others may be considering.
So far, I'd give it an 89 out a a hundred score including value for $. Of course I havent even got a scope mounted on it yet!
That numbers subject to DRASTIC change after a couple days at the range!
I've learned a lot from this rifle so far, hopefully helped others learn to!
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Be sure to post a range report ;D
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With you 100%. I bought it because its reputation as a shooter. From 5' it looks great. And with some time and a dremel tool I can clean up things Savage skipped, been working on it already. Just takes time. And the guns that much more fun to own knowing the time and attention to detail you've put into it. Having been a machinist, its just no fun to buy a rifle you cant take home & spend a little personal time with. I'm not as much complaining as offering a review, & information as I learn about a rifle others may be considering.
So far, I'd give it an 89 out a a hundred score including value for $. Of course I havent even got a scope mounted on it yet!
That numbers subject to DRASTIC change after a couple days at the range!
I've learned a lot from this rifle so far, hopefully helped others learn to!
I have a friend that always says it "looks great across the lawn, on a trotting horse in a snowstorm."
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Big Brown Truck just dropped this off. Now the wait for the mount and rings REALLY STARTS TO HURT!
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010073.jpg?t=1247174336)
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Ready for the range at last! ;D
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1010077.jpg?t=1248363654)
Savage 93BTVS, EMG Picitiny rail, Millet rings, Leupold scope.
Took a little long to build because we just moved to Myrtle Beach. Doesnt look like there's a whole lot of shooting ranges nearby. :(
Saw sharks swimming around eating jelly fish from the pier yesterday though... At least the fishings gonna be interesting!
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Lookin' Good!
Find a range, make some empty brass, and send us targets ;D
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I have a friend that always says it "looks great across the lawn, on a trotting horse in a snowstorm."
I wonder if he knows my ex. She looked okay from a distance.
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The silver rings look a little out of place but all in all I like it.
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I think the silver rings look cool. That is one that just LOOKS like a tack driver. NICE!
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Badger,
Sweet looking Savage. I like what you did with it. I'm with Haz on the silver rings. They look good with the stainless barrel.
Congrats on the move to Myrtle Beach. That stock on your Savage has a bit of a shark appearance.
Good luck on the range. There has got to be one close by.