The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: GUNS-R-US on July 10, 2009, 11:00:09 AM
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I was just watching Best Defense ;D on my DVR and I'm curious if anybody out there knows where I can find the charts that Larry from MidwayUSA uses to grade the effectiveness of different handguns for concealed carry. Ya know time to first shot, how many followup shots in 3 sec., and caliber one shot stopping effectiveness. They did the Ruger SP101 this week and I think they did the glock 26 last week. Anyhow I can't seem to find where on the web those charts would be. Help anyone? ??? :P
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Found this on their website.
http://www.midwayusa.com/static/how_to_videos.aspx?utm_source=howtovideos&utm_medium=homepage070109
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http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=All
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If you look at Larry Potterfield's "knockdown factor" chart, the number one stopper is the 185 gr. 45 ACP +P round with a total score of 400. I didn't see a 230 gr.45 ACP +P round listed, only the standard pressure 230 gr. round. Does anyone know where the +P 230 gr. round would rank...given its my carry round (see signature line) :)
Just wondering if the increased velocity of the lighter 185 gr. bullet would rank it higher or lower than the slower 230 gr. bullet.
Thanks if anyone knows.
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http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=All
I think the thing that surprises me most about that data is people are still shooting each other with 30 carbine!? Great little rifle. But...
Is this cumulative data from one year in Detroit? ;D
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Larry Potterfields conclusions are crap if you are going to base your own carry gun on them. There are to many variables that will depend on the individual shooter, such as concealability, number of shots in a given length of time (5 Sec. if IRC).
They are only valid if you use them in your own comparisons.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=4645.0\
1776 Rebel
Guest
Re: midway usa commercial on best defense 1000 point scale
« Reply #31 on: 06 March 2009, 09:23:41 »
Reply with quote
Yes this Midway stuff is like decrypting the Japanese codes....
I tivo'd the commercial and slowed it down. There are three components to the metric. The final score is a cumulative of each of the component scores.
The first factor is Time To First Hit (it is from a holstered position to target hit) It is measured in tenths of a second. I looks like each tenth more in time subtracts around 26 or 27 points. But I could only read 3 data points clearly. Likely it's a linear scale.
1.5 = 500
1.6 = 473
1.7 = 447
The second factor Accuracy (defined as the number of hits on target in 3 seconds) Definitely a linear scale.
1 = 20
2 = 40
3 = 60
4 = 80
5 = 100
The third and final component is Knockdown Factor. This was a long chart. I picked up 4 data points.
38 special 125gr JHP = 142
32 ACP 71gr FMJ = 96
22LR 36gr HP = 95
32ACP 60gr Silvertip = 94
Even though it has a silvertip in there, I just used Federal data on those rounds. Looks like his numbers are consistently about 40 pts higher than IPSC power factor.
So it doesn't look like any rocket science here. Since the TTFH and Accuracy numbers are straight linear scales just plug in whatever you get at the range. For the Knockdown factor just plug in any scale you feel comfortable with. The major factor in the calculation by at least 4x is the TTFH. So any power factor that generates numbers between 90 and 200 for common rounds, should keep you pretty much in line with the Midway calculations.
Good luck...
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http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=All
Whats good about this is that you can compare apples to oranges and look at calibers as a whole. It is interesting to watch the numbers consistently go up as caliber size increases. The down side to this is that it is a very limited sample, and there are many brands not represented. Not good for making an individual selection, but a nice resource for caliber comparisons.
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http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=15&Weight=All
Thanks, good site.
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BM should compare his practical for SD .22
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=2&Weight=All
To the notoriously inadequate .223
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=22&Weight=All
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If you're trying to access this information to help you decide what gun/caliber to use for concealed carry, please remember that the best concealed carry gun is the one that you will actually CARRY, EVERY DAY!!!
The highest scoring gun/caliber on the charts will do you absolutely no good if you have left it at home when the time arrives that you need it to defend yourself. Better a .22 that you always carry than a .45 that you carry sometimes.
Just my $.02 worth.
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Larry Potterfields conclusions are crap if you are going to base your own carry gun on them. There are to many variables that will depend on the individual shooter, such as concealability, number of shots in a given length of time (5 Sec. if IRC).
They are only valid if you use them in your own comparisons.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=4645.0\
Well yea what you see in the video are his scores. That's why I'd wanted to find the charts especially for the last part the ammo. I want to score how I shoot with my own guns. I have a bunch of different guns and several of them have specific designs to make them different. But I want to compare the apples to apples like my P229 .40 to M&P9, M&P9c to 340PD, 1911a1 to M&P45, guns of similar size and power. I have my favorites but I want scale or grade them in my hands. I appricate the help. I really like the handloads site! ;D I like the comparison. I also want something to help me convince my Mother to change carry guns. She's reluctant to switch to an autoloader. ::) I think a gradable scale will help here see the light!
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BM should compare his practical for SD .22
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=2&Weight=All
To the notoriously inadequate .223
http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppingpower.asp?Caliber=22&Weight=All
(http://smileyx.com/smilies/fighting0092.gif)
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Thanks to those who posted the charts. Tough to judge how the charts would apply to real life situations. Interesting stuff none the less!
Wearing shorts in SC, I've personally just had a hard time concealing an M4 carbine in my pocket. I need more training I guess :(
"To the notoriously inadequate .223" ;D ;D ;D I didnt say it! ;D ;D ;D
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Wearing shorts in SC, I've personally just had a hard time concealing an M4 carbine in my pocket. I need more training I guess :(
May I suggest a Bob Mika pocket holster with a 20 round mag......... ;D