The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: ericire12 on July 18, 2009, 09:35:28 PM
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The good the bad and the ugly.....
Here is one of mine:
I was at a range one day and I was taping up my targets on a table back behind the firing lanes, when over walked a guy and a girl in their early 20s. They rented a Walther .22 for her and a S&W 500 for him....... ::) They set everything down on the table and started going through their gear and next thing I know the guy was trying to open up a plastic .22 ammo case by slamming it on the table! You know the kind that has the sliding plastic top..... he just could not wrap his tiny little brain around how it was designed to open. Anyway, I intervened as fast as I could to inform him of the best way to open it, and even offered up my pocket knife to make the job easier for him. He then proceeded to tell me he could get it and didnt need any help. Two seconds later, he got into it by snapping off 1/4th of the plastic top.
There were no more safety issues from them during my stay (I will point out that I did sight in my rifle and got the hell out of Dodge ASAP), but he and that 500 proved to be a major ASS for my duration there. Rambo just could not figure out that the shock wave from his rapid fire session were making it real hard for me and the one other rifle shooter on the line to even look down our scopes. But I guess I should be thankful to him for fully allocating his diminished brain power towards not killing anyone and just let common courtesy be damned.
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Shooter's Express, Mt. Holly, NC. 1997.
Indoor range to 25 yds. No RO's, younger couple and two male friends occupy 2 lanes to my left. 1 has a revolver and semi auto, the other have two revolvers, one being a large "Dirty Harry" type.
All is well for a bit, I am two lanes over a vacant lane, until one of the shooters tries to clear a double feed or stovepipe by turning the gun sideways, perpendicular DOWN the shooters line. It went BANG right through the divider, across the vacant lane, and lodged in the ceiling above my lane, and my head! Ceiling chunks landed on my station, and me. >:(
Thank God it was pointed at an upward angle. The dividers are to keep ejected rds. from the other lane, not STOP an AD.
The guy to my right, noticed the falling ceiling chunks and the commotion by the two that were not shooting behind the line. One was even laughing.
The guy to my right was an older guy, and intervened in a very serious ass chewing kind of way, like a "Scared Straight" type thing, and brought all the laughing to a screeching halt.
The older guy went to the front counter, after his rant on fundamental gun safety, and keeping the freakin' barrel always pointed downrange, and within 10 minutes the four were packed up an asked to leave.
There was and still is ALOT of so called shooters that can't seem to grasp the fundamentals of "gun" safety. That is where we need to try to help.
My son, with a pistol, had a hard time removing an empty mag and reloading a new one without turning the gun "sideways". This was "corrected", in short order, without exception, lip, backtalk or excuses.
He could always pull weeds.
You know what? He doesn't turn it sideways anymore, and has become MILITANT to range protocol and safety.
I wish "some" could get the same mindset at the range.
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For a second, I thought Eric had read my range officers course. No kidding i will be glad to answer this tomorrow, I have more than you can count, well maybe only 20 or 30.
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I feel blessed that I have never endured such idiocy. BUt then again as a kid, my range was a private on ein my Grandfathers yard in the Mountains of Eastern KY. I do remember once as a very young child, my father was shooting his Belgian Auto5 when i stood in teh wrong spot and took an empty to teh face...
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We always talk about the 4 safety points. I have always thought that there should be a fifth that reads "Be aware of the shooters around you and how stupid they are."
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Here we go.
1) Denton county, deputy sheriff, shooting at our range for the 1st time at tactical match, I give him the command to " load and make ready " he does so safely and then asks if he can top off his magazine, I say yes, he removes his magazine and proceeds to put his Beretta 92 under his left armpit, muzzle now pointing at me, this happens in the blink of an eye, I grab his shoulders and press them in, while turning him away from anyone and yelling "STOP", after unloading his pistol, we go have a talk, " this is how they are taught in Denton county SO" he now knows it don't fly here.
2) Holding the Texas Tactical championships at our home range, We invite LE's to come, including the feds, usually a few show up. The stage I was running was a bank robbery, with lots of targets at varying ranges. I had the oppurtunity to run a female, ATF agent, gun handling was ok, but after the command to shoot, she shot 2-4 rounds from the firing line and then ADVANCED, ATTACKED the targets, she went forward of the firing line, and as she got amongst them, and could not remember which targets she had already addressed, was going to start breaking the 180 rule, I had to yell really loud to get her attention, whoo.
After unloading, we had a talk.
3) Went to a guest range for a pistol match, they had a table under shade behind the firing line. After the match was over, some people started practicing, and one guy go's to a finger berm, dividing berm between ranges, and loads his glock 30, not cool at my range but I'm not there, after shooting his glock a bit, he comes over to the table, a buddy and i are staying out of the heat in, we on one side, he on the other, He draws his glock and unloads it, basically pointing at my gut, I don't like to startle people with loaded guns in their hand, and it was over real quick, I grabbed the local range officer, and told him what happened, and he had a talk with this person.
4) Working the gunsmith bench at our town public range, sighting in firearms, mounting scopes and such, a young man brings me a Savage model 99 to sight in, you learn real quick, to look at the caliber versus the ammo given you. The rifle said, .308 winchester, the ammo box said .300 Savage, I asked the owner if he had the barrel rechambered, he said no, I said then this is the wrong ammunition for the rifle, He argued and said, " it is a Savage " I said yes, but pointed to the chambering on the barrel, He would not back down, I went into the retail area and brought out a box of .308, and loaded then cycled the rounds through the gun, he was not quite convinced yet, I then asked him if he had any fired cartridges from his shooting and he said yes, go get um, and bring them to me, I showed him what the .300 savaged looked like going in, and coming out, damn near a straight walled case, I then sighted in his 99, and it cut a 3 shot clover leaf, I asked him if he wanted to sell it, he said " NO, give it to me ".
5) Came into my home range to shoot, and one of my fellow board directors grabs me as I'm getting out of the truck and says come and look at this, He takes me to our 100meter range, and there are 2 people shooting, well only one is shooting the other is video taping the other from downrange, while coaching, the shooter is a club member, the other is a competitor and instructor but not a club member, We go downrange and have a talk, club member suspended for 6 mos, the other guy who I have shot with for many years, banned from the club for life. Idiocy.
Being a range officer for as long as I have, you see alot, maybe I will post more.
Maybe Michael will tell his thumb blown off story, WOW. Not his thumb.
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At a match one stage called for shots to be taken from both sides of a barracade. Most of the competitors shot left side then right side. I shot right side first. When I switched to the left side to shoot the RO stepped in front of me to score the target. I raised the pistol and yelled "Stop!" He hustled back and I finished the stage. When I was reholstering the pistol I was still so shook at nearly shooting the RO that I missed the holster and dropped the pistol. Automatic DQ. I was not a happy shooter that day.
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Here we go.
2) Holding the Texas Tactical championships at our home range, We invite LE's to come, including the feds, usually a few show up. The stage I was running was a bank robbery, with lots of targets at varying ranges. I had the oppurtunity to run a female, ATF agent, gun handling was ok, but after the command to shoot, she shot 2-4 rounds from the firing line and then ADVANCED, ATTACKED the targets, she went forward of the firing line, and as she got amongst them, and could not remember which targets she had already addressed, was going to start breaking the 180 rule, I had to yell really loud to get her attention, whoo.
After unloading, we had a talk.
Just because she was ATF, did you DQ her?
I am a newbie to guns, maybe about 10 years now for serious involvement. Virulently anti-gun ex-wife. Who knew about muzzle control? I was a serious newbie and did not remember much about my NRA training oh so many years ago in the youth rifle club my Dad helped start. I learn fast - thankfully.
These 3 are object lessons about me - one I think I posted earlier, the others I did not. The first 2 occurred at the same shoot, my first competition, sort of a Wild Bunch - SASS with modern weapons.
1. I went to the practice range after orientation with my BHP, ran a couple of mags, then unloaded, locked the slide back, picked up the case and pistol (separate), pointed the muzzle to the ground, and started to walk away from the line. One guy damn near jumped on me about the gun in hand - which had not been covered at the orientation - and the 180 rule. Live and learn.
2. Same shoot, on the line with my 1873 Navy Arms in .44-40 and 3 brand new boxes of ammo. At the command, I load up 10 rounds, then next command, rack one into the chamber - lever sticks halfway back up, wont budge up or down. So now I am stuck on the line with a jammed fully loaded rifle with one partially in the chamber. Cut to the chase - someone in the retail store where I picked up the ammo - formerly known as Galyan's in Schaumberg, IL, now a Dick's - had apparently been showing a customer the difference between .44-40 and .44 Magnum and swapped the cartridges. I had tried to load a .44 magnum in a gun made for .44-40.
3. One of my first trap shoots - a gazillion hours from my North Shore home somewhere west of the Fox Valley (Daley had managed to close all of the close-in shooting ranges closer to Chicago even at that point). My brand new Rem 1187, all eager to run this thing and enjoy the kick - and learn a little about trap. Learned before I loaded (thankfully) that I only got to load 2 and then only when it was my turn. Damn - 5 round capacity and an autoloader to boot, but oh well. After about 4 hours of shooting, was doing fairly well, went from 16/25 to about 22/25 in that time. Next round, stepped up, my turn, loaded 2, called pull - fired one round, missed, pulled the trigger - nothing. Slide was racked partway back - and stuck. RO told me to leave the line which I did - again, with a loaded shotgun and a jammed round. Took it to a bench behind the club house and finally got the thing cleared, but the bolt was SNAFU. Gander in WI fixed it for me under warranty.
What scares me now about that last one is that no one - and I mean no one - corrected me even though a number of people stopped to ask what was wrong and offer suggestions. Downrange from the muzzle was a crowd of people waiting turns on the trap lines.
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Yikes! to all these stories. I have a friend who flew for the Air Force. He once said, "It's amazing how quick things can go south at 1100 mph.". It's a phrase that has always stuck with me. Its too bad folks don't realize that the same is true of guns. One half second of inattention and two peoples lives are ruined. Its trite but its true, and it seems that familiarity does breed contempt unless we constantly remind ourselves of this.
FQ13
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When I was married, or at least dating, I took my wife to the range. The pistol she was shooting had some kind of jam, misfire, whatever. She turned around and pointed the gun right in my face and said there was something wrong with it. I took it away from her and didn't care whart was wrong as long as I wasn't looking down the muzzle.
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What is the 180 rule? I've been around guns since my first at age 10, bird hunting, deer, etc. but only time I've been to a range was with my CCW permit. I've always lived in the sticks and just go outside to shoot. Strange how nerve racking it was being with all those pistol going off just to my right and left.
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What is the 180 rule? I've been around guns since my first at age 10, bird hunting, deer, etc. but only time I've been to a range was with my CCW permit. I've always lived in the sticks and just go outside to shoot. Strange how nerve racking it was being with all those pistol going off just to my right and left.
The 180 rule is that the muzzle cannot break an imaginary line running from 90 degrees to your left when facing the target to 90 degrees right. while shooting you are not supposed to point the muzzle of the weapon anywhere behind that line.
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A few years back, was hunting at the Grandma's house, last day there, went with some of the little ones to shoot the Marlin 60's. Had a good time explaining safety, teaching some technique, and more safety. Shot a few mags, tubular mags, after the bolt locked on the last round, I dropped all the way the racked it again. Pack up and go home, few hours drive, get home and I'm cleaning guns right after we get done unpacking. Then I take out the one of the 60's and rack the bolt and a .22 round falls out, rack it again and again, and there's five rounds at my feet. I'd had taken it for granted that the 'last' round was the last round, when in fact, the weapon fail to feed, I think its empty, drop the bolt, rack it again to make sure its empty, as if that's good enough or even made sense, and unintentionally loaded another round in the chamber. Lesson learned, I remove every mag to verify if its loaded or not, always look for the orange pusher on 60's and shotguns, and rack every action at least three times on a gun before storage.
I've made safety part of the fun while shooting now, and tell every little one or any inexperienced shoot I take to the range to, 'slow down.' Because if you have a problem you'll naturally what to fix it, but you don't know how. So you'll start pressing buttons, racking things, and dropping mags. All the while you've forgotten the basic safety rules and are going to town trying to fix the gun, you get frustrated and stop thinking about you actions and you surroundings. Take it easy, stop, put your safety on, set the weapon down or hold it in a safe direction if we're in the field, and come get me. I never rush new shooters at the range on anything, I do things on their time. If I take someone to the range, or the field, I take their safety as my personal responsibility.
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When I was married, or at least dating, I took my wife to the range. The pistol she was shooting had some kind of jam, misfire, whatever. She turned around and pointed the gun right in my face and said there was something wrong with it. I took it away from her and didn't care whart was wrong as long as I wasn't looking down the muzzle.
Good for you, muzzles in the wrong direction, especially at yourself, is always a bad deal.
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I was at the San Gabriel valley gun club and I was next to some old fart with a muzzle loader. After about half an hour they called a line break, not even 5 seconds after that i hear what i thought was car wreck behind me. What had happend was the old guy blew is gun apart like a banana and knocked all his gear to the ground. That shit makes me a little uneazy about muzzle loaders and older shooters being rushed.
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Had a nasty one yesterday...shooting at our monthly USPSA match I had an AD during a reload from slide lock or maybe a slamfire from slide lock, no one is sure. Round went DR into the berm and I was still in the shooting box so no DQ. Neither RO or RM saw a problem. I stopped because I thought the RO said STOP! but he said GO, GO, GO so no DQ. Never happened before. Might have had finger in triggerguard but no one is sure of that either -- including myself. Happened so fast I didn't have time to reflect on it.
Richard
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Crap happens, I highlighted the important part.
Had a nasty one yesterday...shooting at our monthly USPSA match I had an AD during a reload from slide lock or maybe a slamfire from slide lock, no one is sure. Round went DR into the berm and I was still in the shooting box so no DQ. Neither RO or RM saw a problem. I stopped because I thought the RO said STOP! but he said GO, GO, GO so no DQ. Never happened before. Might have had finger in triggerguard but no one is sure of that either -- including myself. Happened so fast I didn't have time to reflect on it.
Richard
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This happened to me when I was 14 or so. I was showing a friend (not a gun person) my new pump 12 ga in my bedroom at home. He loved the sound of the pump going click-click. Next thing I knew was he had 2 shells in the magazine watching them eject onto the bed. After doing this a few times, there was a loud noise with a hole through the wall. Thankfully, the first rule my dad taught me was never ever point any gun, even my cap gun, at anybody or allow one to be pointed at you. It is a bad habit that gets easier to rationalize away the more it is done. I figured on getting a good butt beating when my parents came home but didn't. I guess they figured I had learned my lesson.
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Ellis, I have been a range officer for a very long time and teach RO school, of course I can't tell you what happened, but NROI, and myself both teach, the same thing, as an RO, you don't watch the range as the name semi implies, the RO watches the gun, ALWAYS, that is the pointy end where bad things happen, if your RO can tell you where your hitting or missing, He/She is not watching the firearm, it is easy to become complacent as an RO, but bad business. Your RO should know what happened in your event, I have seen it happen over and over, slide go's home after a hard mag charge without the slide release being tripped, light trigger and the hammer falls, or more often, finger in the trigger guard, things are happening so fast, you as an RO say trigger, but the competitor is doing something that takes 1/2 second, too late for the shooter to hear and recognize, before completing the task.
I myself had a squib on a very fast stage, 5 targets in 2 1/2 seconds, big steel and up close, splits are .15 - .20, target 3 had no hit and target 4 had 2 hits, as the next bullet drove the squib out, revolvers can do that, RO did not have a prayer in warning me, with the splits that fast. Ringed my barrel, but it still shoots just as good.