The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Ksail101 on July 21, 2009, 09:57:40 AM
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Well I have my eye on a couple of handguns. I have some money saved and it is about that time to get something new. I will be carrying them alot and shooting them about as much as I do my other handguns. Nothing major about 1000 rounds a year is what I have been averaging on my Kimber and Glock. The last year I have not done much shooting at all cause of free time issues but I hope to do more.
I really like the Sig for the reason that there are many more Holsters and the availability of mags are more mainstream. They will most likely be on the shelf of my local gun shop. (when they are not sold out).
But the HK 45 felt better I though had a larger mag capacity and can be carried cocked and locked.
Anyone with any thoughts? I know its all about what I want but I value your opinions. Anyone maybe have one or both of these and had any issues that maybe I dont know about?
Also the FNP 45 is comparable and not out of the race so if maybe there is something like that you recommend over these let me know I am looking for DA/SA .45 ACP. Thanks.
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HK does is not friendly to the civilian market and they have started putting RFID chips in some of their pistols.
On top of that Sig is located here in NH and I've had friends that worked there. (Yes I'm prejudiced ;D )
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Tom- You own a 220 and do you carry it? I really loved the one I shot. I dont think you can carry it cocked and locked and I right?
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I don't own one , A friend of mine got one "employee Purchase" It IS a really nice pistol. If I remember (haven't seen him in a couple years) it was double action with a decocker, carry it hammer down safety on with a loaded chamber.
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The Sig 220 is one of the great pistols, up on the same podium with the 1911 and the Hi-Power. It is purely debugged technology, fiercely accurate and reliable as dirt. It's sole drawback is magazine capacity, which wasn't nearly the issue it is now back when the 220 was designed. They are fine, fine guns.
I'm going to take a pass on the HK 45...my friend Ken Hackathorn loves them, and in terms of use I spent a day teaching with a USP .40 and had no problems whatsoever, Still, it has been my experience that HK products for whatever reasons tend to have a bit more recoil than competing products. I suppose one could make a case that HK designs for various militaries, where perceived recoil is far less of an issue than it is in the civilian market (which HK tends to shun). Secondly, HK "customer service" is practically the punch line of a joke...I know LEOs who struggle to get spare parts.
I recently purchased an FNP45, not because I was dying for a new .45, but because the thing shot so well. It shoots "light," that is, perceived recoil is less than in equivalent guns. I like the choice between DA/SA and cocked-and-locked carry; trigger pulls in all modes was excellent. And it came with 3 magazines and a Blade-Tech holster with both belt and paddle mounting attachments. Plus — and here's the kicker — it is substantially cheaper than either the 220 and the HK. Something to think about.
Michael B
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I vote for the SIG 220. I like mine a lot. I put a LaserMax in it to make it even more user friendly.
I don't shoot it as much as I would like due to ammo supply issues. But it does duty as my bedroom shelf gun ready to go.
I also like the XD45.
I have not had experience with the FNP 45, but it fit my hands well at the NRA Convention. I did shoot an FNP 9 in league this year because of the ammo supply issues. I liked it.
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I vote for the Sig too, as I have one. I shoot it, love it to pieces. Right now I carry my LCP, esp in the summer, until I can get my waistline down a tad (a tad being a lot of inches! >:( )
Normally I would recommend that you go with what feels right to you, let's you snap to a point of aim quickly. In this case, though, the underwear-less man in the blue font is right - the P220 is the way to go and you will avoid a lot of future feelings of loss and regret. ;D
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I vote for the Sig too, as I have one. I shoot it, love it to pieces. Right now I carry my LCP, esp in the summer, until I can get my waistline down a tad (a tad being a lot of inches! >:( )
Normally I would recommend that you go with what feels right to you, let's you snap to a point of aim quickly. In this case, though, the underwear-less man in the blue font is right - the P220 is the way to go and you will avoid a lot of future feelings of loss and regret. ;D
TMI
For those of you who don't get the joke:
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2009/07/feds-seize-dirty-underwear.html
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My vote would also be for the Sig 220. Are you married to the 220 and to .45 acp? I only ask because the Sig 226DAK has been getting rave reviews. It comes in 9mm, .40 S&W and the hard hitting .357 Sig.
Our forum member Deputy was recently issued the 226DAK as his duty weapon and he wrote a very detailed and glowing review. The Texas State Troopers carry the 226 in .357 Sig and every Trooper that I have spoken with (That's quite a few) really love the 226 and the ballistics of the .357 Sig. Just my .02 and maybe some food for thought.
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Thread drift...we are now in Day 2 of the Hostage Crisis...supposedly the rocket scientists threat specialists at Chicago O'Hare will not allow my suitcase to be loaded onto an airplane for return to Denver, probably for fear my underwear will reach Critical Mass, which, when combined with the girlie Moisturizer sunscreen cream will result in something that smells really bad...
mb
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My vote would also be for the Sig 220. Are you married to the 220 and to .45 acp? I only ask because the Sig 226DAK has been getting rave reviews. It comes in 9mm, .40 S&W and the hard hitting .357 Sig.
Our forum member Deputy was recently issued the 226DAK as his duty weapon and he wrote a very detailed and glowing review. The Texas State Troopers carry the 226 in .357 Sig and every Trooper that I have spoken with (That's quite a few) really love the 226 and the ballistics of the .357 Sig. Just my .02 and maybe some food for thought.
Heres the link
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=7482.0
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The HK45c, Sig 220, Smith &Wesson M&P45c, and HK USP 45c are all about the same size and weight and each carries 8 + 1. All are a tad large for concealed carry but if you buy pants a little to large they all fit comfortably in IWB rigs. The HK45 is a very good gun but virtually impossible to carry concealed because of its size.
I have carried a HK USP45c for several years and love it but my next gun will be a M&P because it is and excellent product and if we don't buy American guns, one day there may not been American gun companies around.
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Sig P220. Was my first duty Auto and I still have it. great gun ;D
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Go for the Sig P220. I've got my Dad's P220 DA/SA that he was issued by the Texas DPS over 15 years ago. It shoots great, never fails, and is rock solid. The DAK trigger is nice, I've shot both P226's in .357 and P220 Compact in DAK. They've got nice smooth triggers, but I'd go for the P220 in DA/SA. Got to have that single action trigger, if you have to shoot someone, do it with a .45, and Sig wants you business, unlike HK. Take a look at the P220 Compact or Carry, MB did an excellent video review of one of them. And remember DA/SA, not DAK, but if you like DAK, I've been told that a few Troopers have put a world of hurt on people real quick and accurate with their DAK Sigs.
And yes, carry hammer down on a loaded chamber. Hammer doesn't contact the slide unless triggers pulled, and you've got a trigger disconnect in the extremely unlikely event the hammer falls with out a trigger pull, in case your fond of dropping guns. There is no manual safety. P220's safe as Hell and ready to go in a moment's notice.
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I've got the HK USP Tactical in 45...I love it...a bit big and it kicks a bit. I don't know about he Sig 220, but the HK bore is high up on axis which intensifies the recoil a bit....the main selling point for me was...well, it's an HK and I have always wanted one but it also comes with the threaded barrel.
Check out the gun in your hand and how high the barrel axis is above your hand between the two to judge moment of force from recoil without actually shooting either.
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You may also want to consider a Glock 30 SF...10 + 1 rounds of 45 ACP in a nice compact package and reliable as hell. The SF (Short Frame) version is just a tad slimmer around the back strap and works best for people with normal or smaller size hands. I'm currently looking at this model and an HK 45c but am heavily leaning toward the 30 SF. Pretty poor initial trigger pull on all the HKs I've tried (except for a P7M8) as well as ridiculously expensive magazines. The lack of customer service on HK's part is just the cherry on the cake and a real shame.
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Cool that is all some really good info.
I have really liked the 220 for a long time it was only recently I started to like the HK. I have never shot the HK 45 but I have shot the P2000 and P30. I figured that would give me a baseline to work with. I have shot a couple P220 and really loved them. But with today's wonder guns I was just a little let down by the 8 round cap. But most situations will never even take 8. And many men have worked with 7 out a 1911 in a war where mag changes are a constant at times and had no problem. (I had a modern high-cap pistol and never used it.)
Kid- I have thought a lot about a 226. But as much as I like the 9mm I would like the .45. I think I have listened too much to Mr. Bane and never have given the .40 a fare chance by having preconceived notion as to how it operates. And I no other gun in .40 I dont really want to have 4 guns all in different cal. I'd rather consolidate.
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I would go with the HK 45. Had the Sig 220 and will never buy a Sig Sauer again after that experience. I may sound like a broken record but I traded my first Glock 17 for the Sig 220. After firing it, less then several months later I traded it for a Glock 22. I will not buy a Sig again. Period. :o And I have owned several handguns over the years.
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I would go for an HK if I was looking for a defense weapon in 45. The last I saw of sig forum, which wasn't that long ago, there were a lot of problems with QC and the newer extractors on the 45 models weren't doing so hot. My only problem with HKs are the price of the magazines about $70 a pop nowadays for a 45.
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b346/long762range/guns/mp45.jpg)