The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: r_w on August 09, 2009, 07:30:15 PM
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I am a novice when it comes to firearms, especially pistols.
Went to the range (back behind the barn ;D) to get a little practice. Now my Glock 23 has always shot a little low, but this time it was LOW. I didn't have any paper to see exactly how bad, but seemed to be about a foot at 10 yards. It used to be about 4" low. I tried both ball and my defense loads, same POI.
I don't have great form, but I don't think I could do anything to make it THAT far off. Been dry-firing and no flinch, jerk, push, or pulling.
What is wrong???
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Did the sights get whacked ?
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Has it changed from what was shot in the past?
Sight picture,....rear notch lined and level with front sight usually comes in at 6:00 low on the target as your eyes see it.
The way your eyes perceive where I think the POI should be can change from pistol to pistol.
Did you try aiming 12:00 high on the target? 10 yds. should be close enough to "dial in" the way the profile of the given sights will affect POI.
What was the 10 ring? pics of your groups can tell a lot, if you wish to share, send some. Many here will offer great thoughts and advice regarding how a 5 shot string is hitting the target. 5 shots is enough to tell the patten without too many holes in the target.
Kinda like forensic science. "Grouping" may be something totally unrelated to the "gun", and rate of fire can effect everything.
Just my .02 cents. Post some target pics, no one here will ever make a derogatory remark regarding shots fired. We are all in the same boat whether a novice or pro. All we want is to get a consistent "group" out of any brand of firearm. And just shoot better.
TW
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Dunno how the sights could change vertically, even if they did get whacked. Side-to-side, yes, but not vertical. I don't hold it gansta style ::)
I did get glasses recently, hmmm 8)
I was shooting plates and clays, so no pattern or pics of a group. I will when I can get a chance, but even with the range so handy it is tough to get in some rangetime. Between the job, tracking down more ammo and the honeydo list.... :P
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Did you buy the gun new? If the answer is no someone may have put the wrong sights on it. My co-worker bought a G22 with the wrong night sights installed on it. The gun always shot low and to the left, so I got my G22 and let him shoot a couple mags and the gun was right on target. We took it to our local smith and he said the sights we all wrong, so he put some oe sights on it and it shoots true now.
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If the POI changed the between when you shot with out glasses to with glasses I think that is the problem.
Next time you get to shoot try a few groups with glasses then try a few with out them, see if it makes a differance.
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If the POI changed the between when you shot with out glasses to with glasses I think that is the problem.
Next time you get to shoot try a few groups with glasses then try a few with out them, see if it makes a differance.
Good point on the glasses. Before I got my prescription safety glasses, I found myself adjusting my head in order to see through my bifocal. It had the same effect as raising or lowering my front sight in relation to the rear. If found myself really inconsistent even with my 1911, a design I've shot extensively over the last thirty years. I'm really front sight focused now, seeing the rear is really only for bulls eye anymore. Combat accuracy is good enough, if I can see it, I can probably hit it...
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I agree with the glasses, when I first started wearing bifocals it took a little while to get used to shooting with them 8)
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Combat accuracy is good enough, if I can see it, I can probably hit it...
Big +1 on combat accuracy. Rob P. addressed this as well, and was spot on.
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+1 on the glasses.... let someone else shoot it too and see if they have a problem (preferably someone with decent eyes ;D )
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I have to really practice to overcome pulling off target when pulling the trigger with my Glock 19. Something about that long, striker fired stroke. It is a lot different from a revolver with the hammer cocked. Finger position, whether it is the fat pad at the end or between the next back joints (between pip and dip to you medical types) makes a difference. I read somewhere that you could unload the gun, the let it close on a piece of folded cardboard like a match pack with a goodly portion sticking out and you could actuate the striker mechanism to practice trigger pulls. I tried this and it does make a difference.
There is an interesting article about Jack Weaver on page 26 of the July American Rifleman. He originated the Weaver Stance which was adopted by the FBI. There is a very good picture of him demonstrating the stance. I haven't had the oportunity to try it but seems reasonable. If someone knows how to link to the picture it would help. If not, I can scan it and post later.
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Here is the picture and story from "American Rifleman" July 2009, Volume 157, No. 7, 123rd Publication. Story by --Bob Boyd, Assistant Editor, Shooting Illustrated.
Since they copied it too, the above should give credits where necessary.
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I am a novice when it comes to firearms, especially pistols.
Take your gun and shoot it left handed. Then, have someone else load it for you and have them make you guess when the chamber is ACTUALLY loaded. If you are watching your front sight when the gun goes "click", then I suspect you'll find your answer.
Using dummies can help, but the methodology for using them assumes you have a fair amount of introductory training.
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I bought an adjustable rear sight from glockstore.com and put on my model 30. Thats the only way I can think of other than getting a crimson trace on yours. 8)
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I bought an adjustable rear sight from glockstore.com and put on my model 30. Thats the only way I can think of other than getting a crimson trace on yours. 8)
I am one of those wierdos that actually LIKES the Glock grip angle. A CT equipped Glock points wrong for me. Maybe the new style will be better, or the new Lasermax rearsight will prove out to be reliable.
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r_w,
I agree with you WOLE HEARTEDLY about the GLOCK grip. I put a lasermax laser in mine for that reason. The lasermax is not adjustable, unfortunately.
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umm something changed. The glasses probably have something to do with it. I own/owned and shot many Glocks. POI's almost always dead on. Something in the sight radius is out.. . via sights...eyesight and lining up.. once you figure out what ..you should be able to fix or adjust either one. ;)
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Did I mention it is great to have you back Hawkfish?
Got my hand torn up shooting the new G22 RFT. Had to change the frame out with my G24. It saved my butt cause I was raw after putting 500 rounds downrange with the new frame. If you shoot the new RFT, my suggestion is a good pair of leather gloves to break it in.
And as for concealed carry, I would not even think about it with a RFT. You will be rubbed raw. The grip is awesome, but does not go well with soft skin.
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What is wrong???
Most likely something you are doing. Shoot it with the other hand. Then have someone take a full magazine and load it for you, chamber empty or full, and not to let you know if one is chambered. If you are really watching your front sights, you'll gain some valuable info.