The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: ericire12 on August 11, 2009, 11:24:42 AM
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http://www.ammoland.com/2009/08/10/is-handing-an-officer-your-concealed-pistol-license-enough/
Is Handing an Officer your Concealed Pistol License Enough?
Michigan - -(AmmoLand.com)- MCRGO Frequently Asked Questions:
MCL 28.425f(3) states: “An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol and who is carrying a concealed pistol and who is stopped by a peace officer shall immediately disclose to the peace officer that he or she is carrying a pistol concealed upon his or her person or in his or her vehicle.” The penalty for a first offense includes a $100 fine, and a CPL suspension of up to six months.
Q: If I get pulled over by the police while I am lawfully carrying a concealed pistol, is it considered sufficient notice to hand over my Concealed Pistol License (CPL) with my Driver’s License?
A: Maybe not.
In one recent case, the driver handed his CPL over to the officer who stopped him. He did this because he had been told by a reliable source (an experienced police officer from another jurisdiction) that it is considered dangerous to use the word “gun” when talking to an officer on the road side since officers yell, “Gun!” to one another when a dangerous person displays a firearm. The driver was ticketed for the non-disclosure. In subsequent trial, the dashboard video camera record showed that it was approximately 40 seconds after the officer arrived at the driver’s window that the driver verbally disclosed his concealed pistol.
The court found that the simple act of handing over the CPL was not adequate disclosure and that the 40-second delay before verbally disclosing was not “immediate disclosure.”
So, the only safe course of action if you are pulled over is to make your disclosure as soon as the officer gets up to the window. In order to try to avoid what police officers often refer to as “a heightened sense of awareness.” (their way of saying that they are alarmed or frightened,) you should maintain a calm tone of voice and demeanor and simply tell the officer that you have a valid Concealed Pistol License and that you are carrying. You do not have to use the word “gun.”
Note that the statute does not require you disclose when you have a CPL and are NOT carrying. However, some officers will be alerted to the fact that you have a CPL before they approach your car. You may want to have a brief conversation with the officer even on days when you are not carrying, simply to avoid any confusion or misapprehension.
Note also that it is a good idea to avoid rummaging around in your passenger compartment as the officer is walking up to your vehicle. If it is dark out, turn on your interior lights, turn off your car stereo and keep your hands in plain sight on the wheel until the officer establishes contact. Remember that the police have dangerous job and your interaction will go more smoothly if you show that you are not a threat to the officer’s safety.
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And Pull as far out of traffic as possible, More Cops are killed during traffic stops by getting a fender up the ass than by being shot.
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When you get your CHL in Texas you are told to present your license and your CHL and to inform the officer that you are carrying.
If the officer runs your license, he will immediately know that you are a CHL holder. Your failure to disclose this fact is likely to make the officer wonder why.
You do not have to present your firearm, unless asked.
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Give the man a chance to control the gun if needed some will insist on it.
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And Pull as far out of traffic as possible, More Cops are killed during traffic stops by getting a fender up the ass than by being shot.
yep, but the cop unions want you to beleave they are getting shot/stabed all the time. Thats exception, not the rule.
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Here's a novel idea...
DON'T SPEED OR DOING ANYTHING STUPID WHILE YOUR CARRYING!
For some, that would be all the time. I haven't been stopped since 1985 and that was the last ticket I've ever gotten. No, I don't drive the speed limit but I also don't make myself visible by doing 90 mph...
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I have been told through training, by a local police chief, and by our local sherrif that all I need to do is produce the permit and hand it over with my license. If I am not carrying I do not need to, and I don't. Here in Minnesota any check run on a vehicle license with my name on it will come back with "owner has permit to carry" ... Really cool that my pick up is only in the wife's name ;D But, her car, both our bikes and the boat all come back with my ccw info.
I have never been asked to surrender the gun in a traffic stop (only been stopped once while carrying and that was for a headlight). I did have a trooper ask for me to surrender my gun at a meeting "for her safety." I told her that I would if she allowed me to clear it myself first "for safety of all." When she started to balk the sherrif stepped in and informed her that I could keep it and "she would be just fine." Cool that the sherrif trumps city cops and state troopers, and even cooler when the sherrif knows you well.
Back on topic - I would prefer to only produce the permit rather than use words in a public situation. And, since that is the law here that is what I will continue to do until instructed otherwise.
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Here's a novel idea...
DON'T SPEED OR DOING ANYTHING STUPID WHILE YOUR CARRYING!
For some, that would be all the time. I haven't been stopped since 1985 and that was the last ticket I've ever gotten. No, I don't drive the speed limit but I also don't make myself visible by doing 90 mph...
+1
Last time that I was pulled over was sometime in the 70s.
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Here's a novel idea...
DON'T SPEED OR DOING ANYTHING STUPID WHILE YOUR CARRYING!
For some, that would be all the time. I haven't been stopped since 1985 and that was the last ticket I've ever gotten. No, I don't drive the speed limit but I also don't make myself visible by doing 90 mph...
Yes, but you can still get stopped for something dumb like a tail light that burned out.
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Yes, but you can still get stopped for something dumb like a tail light that burned out.
True, or it's got a "Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers" mural on the side of the van and billowing smoke trailing behind! ;D
I don't think cops pull over people for a broken light but it does give them reasonable cause to stop for something more nefarious.
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I live in Michigan. I was rear ended by some gal at a red light after we both stopped because she was in such a hurry that she went faster than me when the light turned green. It was during daylight hours and when the SD came up to my car I handed him my DL and carry permit. I told him "I have a permit to carry, but am not carring at this time". He thanked me and went about his business of giving her a ticket.
I thought I was going to be pulled over a couple times recently as both times cops had turned around and followed me. Both times they pulled up close and then backed off and continued to tail me. Both times, I placed my wallet on the dash and opened the glove compartment where the registration and proof of insurance were located. I mentally told myself to inform the cop that I had a permit to carry, keep my hands on the wheel and to turn on the dome light.
I was riding my bicycle downtown and saw I cop I know with another. I stopped and talked briefly with them and went on my way. I later ran into the cop I know and he said he knew I had a carry permit as they "made" my weapon when I was on my bike. That was scarry as my weapon was nothing more than my cell phone. I have to double check the law, but I think any contact with a peace officer in MI requires discloser, which would include my bike contact had I been carriyng. It would also include Consevation Officers. I make it a point to disclose and inform that I have a permit even when not carrying. I know many of the local cops and many more know who I am. When they happen to be at the gas station the same time I am, do you disclose? There has been a lot of discussion in local gun circles on this.
I'm not a lawyer, but to me it seems that disclosure may lead to you possible being cited for one of the many gun laws that are difficult to keep track of. In a way it may be "confessing" your crime as the law says you must disclose. This seems to me to be a violation of my fifth ammendment rights.
The part about immediate disclousure worries me the most about the CC law in Michigan. I would like to know in the case cited who made that decision. I wonder if it was a judge, jury, magisrtate, or other court officer. If not a jury, and an individual, I would bet they are antigun. I think the cop was unreasonable for citing the person on this. Some locals in MI are still not accepting of the shall issue law and have their panties twisted about it, especially elitist prosecutors and Detroit. They try to make up their own rules and make limited and difficult office hours along with long unessessary delays.
I'll turn the bitch switch off now.
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True, or it's got a "Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers" mural on the side of the van and billowing smoke trailing behind! ;D
I don't think cops pull over people for a broken light but it does give them reasonable cause to stop for something more nefarious.
Oh yes they do and I see it happen often. My local cops will stop you for it and do so on a regular basis. It may be for nefarious reasons, but they love pulling kids and younger people over and "request" to search the car. I come home from work about 1:30-2:00 a.m. everynight and some weekends. Almost every night the locals are watching the main drag. I see some one pulled over better than 50% of the time and about 50% of those times they are searching the car. Our locals don't have much to do.
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It is the complete opposite here in ND from MI. I posted a while back that I had a conversation with a county deputy (a field training officer no less) about a traffic stop, and he stated very clearly that if I identified myself as having a CCW and was carrying he would secure me in cuffs and my gun in his possession before moving along with the ticket. All of the other deputies - including a Captain and 2 sergeants - agreed it was all about officer safety.
Opened my eyes, big time.
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If you are a citizen, with a CCW permit, do not give yourself up. You do not have to. You are not the problem. Those that carry illegally are! Just be calm and patient. But I must say, answer honestly if a question is directed at you. I leave it up to you as to how you answer.
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If you are a citizen, with a CCW permit, do not give yourself up. You do not have to. You are not the problem. Those that carry illegally are! Just be calm and patient. But I must say, answer honestly if a question is directed at you. I leave it up to you as to how you answer.
in many states( tx for example) you have to inform them by law, not doing so is a crime. you will not pass go and you will not collect $200
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True, or it's got a "Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers" mural on the side of the van and billowing smoke trailing behind! ;D
I don't think cops pull over people for a broken light but it does give them reasonable cause to stop for something more nefarious.
Every time I change jobs or move I get stopped once. Usually for unprovable BS like "I thought you crossed the yellow line".
Second shift, they want to know who's out and why.
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If you are a citizen, with a CCW permit, do not give yourself up. You do not have to. You are not the problem. Those that carry illegally are! Just be calm and patient. But I must say, answer honestly if a question is directed at you. I leave it up to you as to how you answer.
I was going to post what TAB said, some states require it. Here in NH I don't have to tell any one anything, unless a cop specifically asks if I'm carrying and if I have a permit.
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Yes, but you can still get stopped for something dumb like a tail light that burned out.
I was recently in a car stopped for that while I was carrying..... I'm SURE recognized the officer, Who did hold my Kel-Tec 380 during the stop, btw. I've seen the guy at my work. I can almost swear he's come up there to haul away thieves they've arrested at the truck stop where I work.