The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on August 18, 2009, 05:52:38 PM
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I have flown the same American Flag in front of my house(s), since 9/11. I bring it in at night, as it is not illuminated, and for foul weather.
Well, she's getting worn, torn, and faded.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/DSCF1416.jpg)
There are some tears and rips getting worse, and I need to replace her. :'(
I have been to Boy Scout Ceremonies, Mt. Mourne, NC, Troop 19, with my son, and the troop rounded up old flags for a proper disposal. Once we had a Marine Corps Honor Guard conduct the ceremony. So I know the proper protocols.
I have not done one on my own, and have a question:
Should I take it to the VFW, or local Boy Scout Troop? Or since I am attached to my Flag, take care of it, with all protocols followed myself?
I would follow this order:
http://www.vfwmi.org/us_flag_disposal.htm
In August, 2000, at the VFW 101st National Convention in Milwaukee, VFW delegates passed a resolution establishing a U.S. Flag disposal program for Posts to conduct, privately or publicly.
The VFW feels individuals are responsible for maintaining the U.S. Flag in their possession. However, as a public service some VFW Posts have special details assigned for gathering and disposing* of worn national emblems. Some Posts may go further - they make gifts of new flags to groups or provide information on how to order a U.S. Flag from the VFW Emblem and Supply Department.
*SUGGESTED PROCEDURE FOR INDIVIDUALS TO USE IN PRIVATE OR PUBLIC FOR DISPOSING OF A TORN, SOILED, OR BADLY FADED U.S. FLAG.
1. The Flag should be folded in its customary manner. (See current Program Chairman's booklet or VFW ritual.)
2. It is important that the fire be sizeable and of sufficient intensity to ensure complete burning of the Flag.
3. Place the Flag on the fire.
4. The individual (s) can come to attention, salute the Flag, recite the Pledge of Allegiance and have a brief period of silent reflection.
5. After the flag is completely consumed, the fire should then be safely extinguished and the ashes buried.
6. Please make sure you are conforming to local/state fire codes or ordinances.
I would like to do it myself, but there is something about that "Old Flag", that makes me kinda "well-up" when I think about burning her.
She, of course, would be replaced with a New One, but I ask you guys here as I think the Flag means more to us than others.
Thank you
TW
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TW,
I have NO doubt that you are quite capable of handling this on your own. If you want, have friends and family attend and share the ceremony.
In short, take care of business yourself.
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i thought it was illegal to burn flags, or atleast thats what iv heard ???
why not just keep it in the attic and pass it down to your kids/ grandkids
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i thought it was illegal to burn flags, or atleast thats what iv heard ???
why not just keep it in the attic and pass it down to your kids/ grandkids
Jackel,
The proper way to dispose of the US Flag is to burn it. Just not like the asshat protesters do.
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k, never thought about it.
how would you burn a nylon flag though? soak it in gas?
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Do not use a BBQ grill or garbage pit to burn the flag. Use only wood as the fire source, not paper, cardboard or anything else.
If you need to use a BBQ, use a new grill surface so there is no food contamination.
Or take it to the local BSA troop, they usually do a great job, including a formal ceremony like the VFW. We always made sure it was a great, fitting, highly instructive ceremony and we did a ton of flags for folks in town. They may also use the ashes in other ceremonies, such as Eagle, OA or Woodbadge ceremonies.
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Personally I would do the following. Call up either the SAR or the VFW. They do these kinds of things for the scouts, JROTC etc. Its a learning experience for the kids, a good public reminder and a public service. If you can schedule it, show up and thank the kids.
FQ13
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Tom,
The fact that you care enough to ask the question and your love for the symbolism and these United States of America suggests that your more than capable to dispose of "Old Glory" yourself. You gave the Old Girl life, you can see to her burial with no reservation.
You have my blessing and the blessing of my families 42 years of Naval Service!
Thank you for your attention to ceremony!
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US Flag Code. TITLE 4 > CHAPTER 1 > Sec. 8(k). It states:
"The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning"
http://www.usa-flag-site.org/faq/disposal.shtml
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Most of our ceremonies here are done the way they were when I was a Boy Scout many years ago -
We always used a grill - preferably a Weber (contains fire and avoids the wind blowing ash out), and we took the food grate off;
We used charcoal brickets, lit them just like preparing to grill, when they were white with ash we spread them evenly, we covered the brickets with firewood (two to three inch in diameter to make a good fire base), and when everything was burning well the folded flag was placed directly on the burning wood;
When one flag was completely consumed we would place the next folded flag on;
We would add more wood between flags if needed (we often did over 100 flags at a time);
After all flags were burned we let the fire burn down to nothing but ash (occasionally we would need to stir because of the amount of ash);
We would then put the ash in a clean new pail (usually metal because the ash was still hot) for transportation;
We would bury the ash in a freshly dug hole with at least two feet of dirt cover.
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If it is a nylon/synthetic flag, it could make a LOT of smoke. Enough to get the attention of the fire department if you are someplace that gets paranoid about burn permits.
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Thank you DRTV, as always a good measure of insight.
As I am old fashioned, I will take care of this here at home, Charcoal and Oak, good bed of coals, in a freshly dug fire pit out back.
The ceremonies I've seen, on a good bed of coals, incinerate any Flag very quickly. She will go fast, and be replaced with a new one.
It is OUR Flag, and I appreciate all the input.
I still have my Great Grandfather's Funeral Flag, in a shadow box with 48 stars, it's real cotton, linen quality, and only flies on the 4th of July, 9/11, Memorial Day, and Veterans Day.
I take my Flags seriously, and am thankful that you all do as well. It's the America we love, we'll GET BACK, and carry on for future generations, despite those damn politicians.
Thanks again,
It'll be done Labor Day Weekend.
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Thank you DRTV, as always a good measure of insight.
As I am old fashioned, I will take care of this here at home, Charcoal and Oak, good bed of coals, in a freshly dug fire pit out back.
The ceremonies I've seen, on a good bed of coals, incinerate any Flag very quickly. She will go fast, and be replaced with a new one.
It is OUR Flag, and I appreciate all the input.
I still have my Great Grandfather's Funeral Flag, in a shadow box with 48 stars, it's real cotton, linen quality, and only flies on the 4th of July, 9/11, Memorial Day, and Veterans Day.
I take my Flags seriously, and am thankful that you all do as well. It's the America we love, we'll GET BACK, and carry on for future generations, despite those damn politicians.
Thanks again,
It'll be done Labor Day Weekend.
Please only wood, no charcoal.
And thank you for the respect you show in just asking the question.
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Please only wood, no charcoal.
Seems right,.... I moved to the Palm Tree state with (against my wife's objections), a cord of NC Red & White Oak, with some Hickory. (I miss my fireplace),....
It will be with wood only...
Thank you.
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According to the US flag code
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagcode.htm
ยง8. Respect for flag
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
1. The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
2. The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
3. The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
4. The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
5. The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
6. The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
7. The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
8. The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
9. The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
10. No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
11. The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning
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Why do I feel like we are shooting the family dog?
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I seem to have developed a very large lump in my throat while reading this thread.
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Why do I feel like we are shooting the family dog?
In my case, she (the family dog) just ate, not one hour ago, a former student's master's thesis. It was sent to me to peruse. It turns out my student lost her copy, and her computer, and her files in a house fire on Sunday. If the third copy (sent to her advisor) is not intact, both my dog and myself are pretty much screwed, asshe will have lost two years of work. She is a Palestinian and no stranger to violence, and honestly, in good conscience, I couldn't even shoot back. I told my dad to sell my guns on DRTV if the copy doesn't surface. Frankly, burning the dog seems like a real good idea right now. Yikes! :-\
FQ13
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In my case, she (the family dog) just ate, not one hour ago, a former student's master's thesis. It was sent to me to peruse. She lost her copy, and her computer, and her files in a house fire on Sunday. If the third copy (sent to her advisor) is not intact, both my dog and myself are pretty much screwed, asshe will have lost two years of work. She is a Palestinian and no stranger to violence, and honestly, in good conscience, I couldn't even shoot back. I told my dad to sell my guns on DRTV if the copy doesn't surface. Frankly, burning the dog seems like a real good idea right now. Yikes! :-\
FQ13
their supposed to be telling YOU that, Jeez, now I've heard everything.
She's Palestinian ? Your screwed, be careful when you start your car. ;D
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their supposed to be telling YOU that, Jeez, now I've heard everything.
She's Palestinian ? Your screwed, be careful when you start your car. ;D
No worries about the car. She'd want to look me (and the dog) in the eye when it happened. :o
FQ13 who is saying DOH!
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No worries about the car. She'd want to look me (and the dog) in the eye when it happened. :o
FQ13 who is saying DOH! Followed by IIIEEEE NO, OUCH, HELP ! EEEEEEK
She's going to be the new "Girl of your dreams".
Dreams, nightmares, whatever. ;D
YOUR eyes are going to do this :o
;D
I'm sorry she had bad luck and lost 2 years work, but I'm enjoying ragging on you ;D
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She's going to be the new "Girl of your dreams".
Dreams, nightmares, whatever. ;D
YOUR eyes are going to do this :o
;D
I'm sorry she had bad luck and lost 2 years work, but I'm enjoying ragging on you ;D
Even though she was not nearly as hot, I keep thinking of Ziva from NCIS. Dreams and nightmares indeed. I NEVER post the names of my students on the net, but she is a Marionite Christian, yet still a hardcore secular Palestinian nationalist. I don't agree with her politics, but thats not what I'm paid to do. My job is to educate anyone who comes through the door and she was one of the best students I've had. I feel guilty as hell, but how was I to know I had one of two existing copies? Yet how do you tell that to a 24 year old who I know for a fact was political in the Middle Eastern sense of the term? Somehow I don't think inviting her out for a beer will cover this one. :P
FQ13 who will instruct his estate to give DRTV Rangers discounts on the estate sales of his guns. The dog is free.
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Maronite Christian ? She's most likely Lebanese. You say "My job is to educate anyone who comes through the door and she was one of the best students I've had." She got all the education SHE needs working on Lebanese Muslims with a knife. Just think what a good student she was THEN. Guilty isn't ALL your going to feel.
Before you "go" I'll thank you for the discount but you have to PAY to get rid of that dog.
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Maronite Christian ? She's most likely Lebanese. You say "My job is to educate anyone who comes through the door and she was one of the best students I've had." She got all the education SHE needs working on Lebanese Muslims with a knife. Just think what a good student she was THEN. Guilty isn't ALL your going to feel.
Before you "go" I'll thank you for the discount but you have to PAY to get rid of that dog.
Thanks for your tender concern. ;D The Palestinians have plenty of Christistians and just like the Lebanese, they don't much care for Hamas/Hezbollah. The Israeli's are up there to. She did ask if a student visa would let her ccw in Indiana........ I said no. I meant Hell No, but it seemed enough. ;D
If you want the AR, you have to take the dog, damnit!
FQ13
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Thanks for your tender concern. ;D The Palestinians have plenty of Christistians and just like the Lebanese, they don't much care for Hamas/Hezbollah. The Israeli's are up there to. She did ask if a student visa would let her ccw in Indiana........ I said no. I meant Hell No, but it seemed enough. ;D
If you want the AR, you have to take the dog, damnit!
FQ13
Deal !
I'll make Kimchi ;D
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Deal !
I'll make Kimchi ;D
Deal indeed. Between the the thesis and stealing and then eating a tin of skoal that was on the dining room table; and then proceeding to vomit/crap across every square inch of surface area of a white rug a couple of months back, I'll be happy to fatten her up. ;D
FQ13 who is just kidding, I do love the beast, God knows why.....
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This is what I was taught, and no googling involved. The US flag should be deconstructed, that is disassembled, one stripe and one star at a time, and then burned. Modern flags are not sewn like before, so burning the whole thing seems appropriate, from my memories, it was the red stripes, then white stripes and finally the blue stars.
Tw, I have no doubt, the flag will know your and your families reverence.
FQ, dude, the dog is the least of your worries, bet shes a dark haired hottie, with the smarts to put a little kibble sauce on the lap top and paperwork. ;D >:( :o ::)
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I'm glad to see someone that has been so diligent about flying a flag and even the little things like bringing it in at night, etc.. I'm sure no matter how you burn your flag, it will be with the respect that is due.
I fly the flag too and even noticed that on the 4th I was the only one on our block doing so. On some pissy occasions, I swap the stars and stripes with my Gadsden
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I'm glad to see someone that has been so diligent about flying a flag and even the little things like bringing it in at night, etc.. I'm sure no matter how you burn your flag, it will be with the respect that is due.
I fly the flag too and even noticed that on the 4th I was the only one on our block doing so. On some pissy occasions, I swap the stars and stripes with my Gadsden
I'm a patriot, but more of the flag saluting, not flag flying sort. I figure that I and my neighbors know where we live. The Gadsen on the other hand...... ;D Yep, just might might get one.
FQ13