The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on August 25, 2009, 07:41:05 PM
-
Considering the source, do you feel "divided", with other gun owners? Do the people that "carry" and protest outside town hall meetings make you think its a bad idea???
The Media is trying a classic tactic from the Lib playbook.
Highlighted for those who like the "Cliff Notes...."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32492783/ns/us_news-life
By Mike Stuckey
Senior news editor
msnbc.com
updated 1 hour, 31 minutes ago
Mike Stuckey
Senior news editor
Gun owners may be arguing among themselves and with gun-control activists about it, but for Mustapha Kassou, there’s no debate over the “open-carry” movement, which created a furor this month when pistol- and rifle-packing citizens showed up near several public appearances by President Barack Obama.
Kassou was working the cash register in the Richmond, Va., market he owns on July 11 when a gunman stormed the store with robbery on his mind. In an incident captured on surveillance video, the bandit ordered the eight customers to the floor and pumped two bullets from his snub-nosed pistol into Kassou, who fell to the floor behind the counter.
As the store’s patrons prayed and screamed, one of them drew a .45-caliber revolver from a holster in plain view on his hip and ordered the robber to drop his gun. In the shootout and hand-to-hand struggle that followed, the customer managed to wound the robber three times and prevent him from shooting anyone else. By the time police responded to a 911 call, the robber lay mortally wounded in a pool of blood; he died three days later in a hospital.
The incidents have stirred fear and anger among some Americans, and contempt from gun-rights activists for what they see as overreaction and unfair spin by the national media. They have also exposed a subtlety and nuance in America’s ongoing debate over firearms that are often lost in the predictable, shrill arguments between gun-control advocates and Second Amendment defenders.
updated 1 hour, 31 minutes ago
Mike Stuckey
Senior news editor
Gun owners may be arguing among themselves and with gun-control activists about it, but for Mustapha Kassou, there’s no debate over the “open-carry” movement, which created a furor this month when pistol- and rifle-packing citizens showed up near several public appearances by President Barack Obama.
Kassou and other open-carry advocates say the case is an example that supports their notion that openly armed citizens can deter and stop crime effectively.
Reason to cringe
While the outcome of the gunfight at Kassou’s Golden Food Market is perhaps the best publicity the open-carry movement could hope for, some in its ranks are cringing at the far greater coverage given to the recent open-carrying activities of others. Outside presidential town hall meetings from New Hampshire to Arizona, these gun owners have worn their loaded revolvers and semiautomatic pistols for all the world to see. One man slung a military-style AR-15 rifle over his shoulder.
One of the biggest attention-getters was William Kostric, who strapped a 9 mm Smith & Wesson in a SWAT-style leg holster and wore it to Obama’s Aug. 11 town hall meeting on health care in Portsmouth, N.H. “I wanted people to remember the rights that we have and how quickly we’re losing them in this country,” he told msnbc-tv's Chris Matthews.
The White House, hoping to allay fears of a security threat, has said that people are entitled to carry weapons outside such events if local laws allow it. "Those laws don't change when the president comes to your state or locality," spokesman Robert Gibbs said.
The incidents have stirred fear and anger among some Americans, and contempt from gun-rights activists for what they see as overreaction and unfair spin by the national media. They have also exposed a subtlety and nuance in America’s ongoing debate over firearms that are often lost in the predictable, shrill arguments between gun-control advocates and Second Amendment defenders.
As much as any issue, open carry reveals divisions within the gun-rights community, often characterized by gun-control advocates as a monolithic force that is led in lock-step by the powerful and well-heeled National Rifle Association. But you won’t find the NRA weighing in on this issue; the 4-million-member group did not respond to msnbc.com’s requests for an interview.
“They’re obviously avoiding taking a stand on this one,” said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, the nationwide advocacy group for “sensible” gun laws. “It’s a no-win for them.” If NRA officials criticize those who open-carry near Obama events, they run the risk of irritating their “rabid membership,” Helmke said. If they support the behavior, “they’re going to lose all credibility not only with the public but with the elected officials who usually vote their way.”
Other gun-rights groups, however, have not shied away, offering a range of reaction.
'It's their right'
“We do applaud them for being a positive example of responsible gun owners,” said John Velleco, director of federal affairs for the Gun Owners of America, probably the loudest voice of support for those who have displayed firearms near Obama events. “We’re not calling for people to do that but if they’re doing so legally it’s their right to do it,” said Velleco, who has said he would have no concerns over thousands of citizens openly carrying firearms to an event at which the president was speaking.
Video
More guns brandished at town halls
Aug. 18: Alan Gottlieb, founder of the 2nd Amendment Foundation, and radio talk-show host Ron Reagan discuss citizens with guns showing up near presidential events.
Hardball
But Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, another staunch defender of gun rights, was not applauding. Gottlieb said the open carrying of firearms near presidential town hall meetings on health care “is not the time or the place for it. I’m not for disallowing them to do so, I just don’t think it’s politically intelligent. … I would like to see gun owners think twice before they go to a rally like that with a firearm strapped on. It doesn’t necessarily put our best face forward.”
*******
The State Run Media is scared, those with the character to keep the gov't scared support the RIGHT to carry.
Seems there are RINO's in the pro gun world also.
Shame.
-
They dont call them liberal loons for nothing
-
At some point, the "political correctness" that is creeping into everything, has to be knocked down a peg or two.
The NRA, "God Bless Em'", can also be PC when it comes to the "Rights of the People" being exercised.
This Gottlieb fellow from the Second Amendment Foundation, is a good guy, but his naivety about the admin. were facing needs to remind him of what the Constitution meant regarding "THE PEOPLE"
"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..."
Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, 1798 - Sam Adams
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson Papers
Good ol' TJ scares the crap out of the State Run Media, and those who want to just "play the political game"
-
The writer is correct when he says there is some debate with in the gun culture over showing up at presidential events with guns. This past weekends Armed American Radio program
http://armedamericanradio.org/2009/08/coming-up-on-aar-8-23-2009/
ended with the host stating that while it IS your right it is inflammatory, and is probably a bad idea.
I'll stick with the advice MB got from a gay rights activist, "Out of the closet and into the streets"
30 years ago homosexuality was a crime, now they have the legal right to "marry". Decriminalization did not come about because of quiet, "reasonable" actions. it was propelled by in our faces action such as gay pride parades that flaunted their lifestyle in our faces and if we didn't like we could go f&ck our selves.
Gun Rights activists, shooters, and other Patriots need to learn from that, we are taking back our country and if the media and the socialists don't like it they can move to Cuba. The Troops on OUR borders will not be there to keep people IN.
-
NRA---Negotiating Rights Away.... nuff said
-
I have to agree with Tom and MB. We need to be out in the streets visible as much as possible showing that we are here and that we are NOT a bunch of wackos. We need to show that we ARE the normal neighbors, the little old lady, the businessmen and women and the resposible Patriots that made this country great at one time. We really do need to take back our country from the very vocal but what I believe to be a very small minority of opinions.
-
Armed American Radio is a very good show, put out by the people at Concealed Carry Magazine, so I sent them a reasonably polite e mail voicing my disagreement.They ARE worth listening to. ;D
-
MB is correct. The gay rights movements pushed and pushed until it became 'normal' through law. We already have the laws, but have lost the 'normal' part. While I would say that it is not completely normal here, it certainly is not abnormal. I hardly get a comment when I OC.
-Bidah
-
September 17 is Bill of Rights Day. That would be a very good time for every one who can to open carry.
-
I have to agree with Tom and MB. We need to be out in the streets visible as much as possible showing that we are here and that we are NOT a bunch of wackos. We need to show that we ARE the normal neighbors, the little old lady, the businessmen and women and the resposible Patriots that made this country great at one time. We really do need to take back our country from the very vocal but what I believe to be a very small minority of opinions.
Beautifully said Coop. A very strong and positive +1.
-
Someone stated that an armed society, is a polite society.
It's a shame the anti's want to make it one sided, in favor of the criminals that could care less about gun control..
-
Had to send Armed American Radio another nastygram on open carry :
This is my second comment on “Open Carry”. You are dead wrong about playing the PC game about not offending the anti’s by open carrying.
We have been walking on eggshells around these people for 40 years and we have gone from being limited on machine gun purchases to having every gun purchase approved by the FBI, and having to fight for the very existence of our very right.
Take a lesson from the Gay rights movement. “Out of the Closet, and into the Streets”. 40 years ago being gay was a criminal offense, if a reporter said that some one was a homosexual their employer was going to get sued and they WOULD wind up paying. Using the courts and polite, non offensive tactics did not work for them. After 30 years of “We’re here, We’re queer” gay rights parades they are allowed to marry in some states. Obviously the in your face, we are not changing approach WORKED.
By trying not to offend, not scare the old ladies, we are playing into the anti’s agenda.
The more effective approach is NOT to be apologetic about exercising your civil rights.
The proper approach is “I’m armed. I’m staying armed. Any one who objects can KMA.
-
Had to send Armed American Radio another nastygram on open carry :
This is my second comment on “Open Carry”. You are dead wrong about playing the PC game about not offending the anti’s by open carrying.
We have been walking on eggshells around these people for 40 years and we have gone from being limited on machine gun purchases to having every gun purchase approved by the FBI, and having to fight for the very existence of our very right.
Take a lesson from the Gay rights movement. “Out of the Closet, and into the Streets”. 40 years ago being gay was a criminal offense, if a reporter said that some one was a homosexual their employer was going to get sued and they WOULD wind up paying. Using the courts and polite, non offensive tactics did not work for them. After 30 years of “We’re here, We’re queer” gay rights parades they are allowed to marry in some states. Obviously the in your face, we are not changing approach WORKED.
By trying not to offend, not scare the old ladies, we are playing into the anti’s agenda.
The more effective approach is NOT to be apologetic about exercising your civil rights.
The proper approach is “I’m a law-abiding citizen who happens to be armed. I’m a law-abiding citizen who plans on staying armed. Any one who objects can KMA.
Edited to differentiate us from the BG's. ;D
-
And there was no mass killings or anything. Oh, if they could of just taped a real live killing what journalist feat that would of been. Instead everybody was safe and secure. But wait that's not logical, all those deadly evil guns everywhere