The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: r_w on August 31, 2009, 06:15:44 PM
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MB's posts from the road got me to remembering my days of travelling.
After the second or third flight, I found myself fading to white and just disconnecting. Almost cost me a few times when landing in a foreign country and having to deal with crooked cabbies.
So how DO you keep alert after 24 hours in airplanes and ports?
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I traveled a lot in the USAF. I learned quickly to fall asleep as soon as I got on the plane and not wake up until wheels down. I actually wake up about 10 seconds before the wheels touch, consistently. Of course the fact that the time period from touchdown until wheels up (4 to 48 hours) would involve NO sleep help develop this "talent".
So, while I enjoy flying and enjoy watching out the window, more than likely I sleep the entire flight. Hit the ground running. I use to be able to go 5 or 6 days before I would wind down. Age is catching up to me though.
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RW you have to forget what white is like, it should no longer be part of your persona, Sucks, but true, or only reserved for those situations where you and everyone around you can be Fat, Dumb, and Happy. I have not been in that place for a long time.
What did it for me, was Uncle Jeff Cooper, wake up everyday and decide if you have to kill someone, you will, and if it happens you made that decision before breakfast.
Watching my cat screaming to be let out, and when I do, she gets out the door and then pauses and checks her 6, 12, 3 and 9, not a bad attitude.
Go ahead Haz, bask.
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a old army trick is to eat.
eating stimulates the brain with taste and excitement. it also helps boredom
(http://davidrayteam.com/articles/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/lessons-from-a-wise-man.jpg)
;D
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"awareness" is largely an illusion guys. The color code is used by some as a mystical security blanket to let them believe that they cannot be ambushed. I believe that the more enlightened approach is to understand that you can be caught of guard. In fact, you can be ambushed all the easier if your attention is focused on a distraction because of your "high level of awareness"... this tactic is regularly used by teams of street criminals and stage illusionists to get people to focus their attention on the wrong thing while the important thing is being performed. Sometimes that is a coin being pulled from behind your ear, sometimes it is a actual threat walking up behind you while someone else asks for the time.
Understanding that you CAN be ambushed and training from that perspective as often as possible is much more likely to increase your survivability than trying to find ways to avoid distraction, fatigue and surprise.
-RJP
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My problem is that I live in a very low crime area, although car break-ins are increasing. I think we had 2 in town last month. Come on - we have 2 County Sheriff deputies patrolling 1600 square miles. Coming from Chicago originally, I have lost my spidey-sense that I used everytime I walked the streets or rode the El/subway.
As a result, the sheer boredom of moving around has lulled me into complacency, and it seems no matter what I do, I cannot always remember to be in condition yellow at the least unless I go into a box store parking lot. Even then, I have to work hard to force myself to pay attention, and usually fail.
So I tend to fade to white all of the time - the threat really isn't there most of the time unless something triggers it, like a professional panhandler on the corner. But then, my car automatically locks when I put it in gear, so again, no need to think.
Ideas?
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In flight, while in the Air Force, I was fine till the first bump. I always knew there would be a second or more continuous bumps ahead. The worst was flying home from Italy. We hit a pocket and dropped a couple of thousand feet. Everyone's ears were popping and babies were screaming. Turbulance is a mofo.
If you have a xanax bar you will be fine. I prefer my Spidey Sense as Pathfinder mentioned or a nice couple of shots of Crown Royal.
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Understanding that you CAN be ambushed and training from that perspective as often as possible is much more likely to increase your survivability than trying to find ways to avoid distraction, fatigue and surprise.
-RJP
So I tend to fade to white all of the time - the threat really isn't there most of the time unless something triggers it, like a professional panhandler on the corner. But then, my car automatically locks when I put it in gear, so again, no need to think.
Ideas?
Path, I bet your "awearness" is better than you think.
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Want to stay "AWARE" ? Think of what you may miss seeing, like the $20 bill the guy behind you picked up after YOU stepped on it. ;D
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MB's posts from the road got me to remembering my days of travelling.
After the second or third flight, I found myself fading to white and just disconnecting. Almost cost me a few times when landing in a foreign country and having to deal with crooked cabbies.
So how DO you keep alert after 24 hours in airplanes and ports?
When I go to Eastern Europe or the Middle East I try and sleep as much as possible on the flights. No sleeping pills, maybe a drink with dinner.
I do stay away from coffee or tea untill we are about ready to land.
Connections suck but sometimes you have to deal with them. I walk around the terminal and stretch but don't eat. Who needs a good case of the trots in an airplane.
As far as cabs my little rule is if they aren't in the taxi line, I don't get in. When they are waving at me from the outer ring or trying to get me from inside the baggage claim I ignore them.
Good driver and 3rd World can not be used in the same sentence. The Enshalla driving school worries more than terrorists or muggers
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"The subject of personal defense is far more psychological than technical. As soon as you decide and insist that you will not be victimized, you have done more than any weapon can to provide for your safety."
Jeff Cooper
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i agree that it is physcological.
for instance today after i picked my son up from a play date i had to stop at 7 11 for some milk and a ice cream (for me of course ;D)
There were a couple of guys hanging around the front smoking, and another guy sitting still in a parked car a few spaces down. i could clearly see that they were affiliated because they all had that "hip hop" look and there eyes met a couple of times.
i was petty sure there was something going on here and said to my son that we would go to wawa's instead.
now that i think about it they could have jacked my car quite easily, or it could have been a couple of friends that were stopping for a smoke.
i didnt consciousleey think that they were going to try something but i had a bad feeling. im sure all you guys have had the same feeling many times.
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From Ratcatcher
"Good driver and 3rd World can not be used in the same sentence. The Enshalla driving school worries more than terrorists or muggers"
That line made my day ;D LOL
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"Understanding that you CAN be ambushed and training from that perspective as often as possible is much more likely to increase your survivability than trying to find ways to avoid distraction, fatigue and surprise."
I don't disagree with that, but the opposite of aware is unaware, I think Unaware is bad, regardless of training, especially for the masses, my quote of fat, dumb and happy. Which I did not coin, is how local LE's describe people in a totally white state, oblivious to things around them, totally absorbed in what they are doing. Those that chose not to carry the means to defend themselves should adapt an attitude of awareness like a rabbit, I am food, so I need to look out for hungry predators. In life, when driving, I watch the 2nd car in front, not the 1 in front of me, the 2nd car is what the 1st car will react to, If I see the 2nd car react, I react, reject the lemming response.
Rob, I have the advantage of training and application, most will not, it would be nice for us all to be trained, but on this forum, a lot of folks take what we have to say and try to understand and apply it. I think the spirit of the thread speaks for itself, the man was understanding, he was losing the awareness, and wanted to get it back. Basic awareness I think is fundamental as a defense strategy. But as I have taught and understand, if someone is out to get you, they probably will. But in everyday life, we can decide to walk in a bad place, or take a bus, or subway, in places we would not normally go. My disabled wife, who has zero awareness now, at least does not drive to bad areas, or take the public transpo without a backup person. She can no longer carry a gun.
You definitely think about what you say and carry it beyond the goal line, but remember, a lot of us here would like to participate, but cannot, due to physical difficulties, but reacting to a threat, is both real and unobtainable for some, especially a physical beat down. That absolutely does not mean it can't happen, or won't, our only defense is avoidance. That does not mean we will be successful, just not completely naked.
I do appreciate your input.
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i agree that it is physcological.
for instance today after i picked my son up from a play date i had to stop at 7 11 for some milk and a ice cream (for me of course ;D)
There were a couple of guys hanging around the front smoking, and another guy sitting still in a parked car a few spaces down. i could clearly see that they were affiliated because they all had that "hip hop" look and there eyes met a couple of times.
i was petty sure there was something going on here and said to my son that we would go to wawa's instead.
now that i think about it they could have jacked my car quite easily, or it could have been a couple of friends that were stopping for a smoke.
i didnt consciousleey think that they were going to try something but i had a bad feeling. im sure all you guys have had the same feeling many times.
This is the key. When I was a young cadet we had a series of "career days". Officers from various MOSs came in and lectured us on what they did all day. We had a guy come in from 6th SF. He said that what seperates a Green Beret from a Marine (sorry Tom, but his words not mine) was that a force recon Marine was trained to beat up everyone in the bar. A Green Beret was trained to recoginize that the bar was a bad place to be and stay the hell away from it. First rule to winning a fight is to avoid the fight if at all possible. Its been 20 years and I still remember those words.
FQ13
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That's OK FQ, our barracks was directly across from Recon, We occasionally assisted with their training. (spelled B R A W L ;D )
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...a lot of us here would like to participate, but cannot, due to physical difficulties, but reacting to a threat, is both real and unobtainable for some, especially a physical beat down. That absolutely does not mean it can't happen, or won't, our only defense is avoidance. That does not mean we will be successful, just not completely naked.
M25,
I may have given the wrong impression with my initial response. My point is not that Awareness and Avoidance aren't important. They are invaluable... as anyone who has watched TBD or TBD:S will tell you, we frequently stress both aspects of personal defense. My point is that I know many people who are COMPLACENT because of their (mis-)perception of what their awareness level is. Those who would say that they can't be ambushed because they are "always aware" are the guys I was addressing.
That said, "unobtainable" doesn't exist for anyone in a conscious state. Yell, Scream, Stomp, Swing the crutches, Roll the Chair, Bite, Claw, whatever. If you can't shoot a gun, buy a Taser. If you can't buy a Taser, learn whatever unarmed skills you can. If you can't perform defensive motor skills, think about using fingernails and teeth. Don't get me wrong, you may lose. Your wife may lose. I may lose. Even Janich may lose. That doesn't mean that you should start the day thinking that if anyone gets within arms reach you're done. I had the pleasure of spending a little time with Kyle Maynard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5R75GGUovg) last month at a combatives camp. He's an extreme example, but he hasn't let his physical limitations keep him from developing defensive skills.
-RJP
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Wow !
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Wow !
WOW!!!
And a thanks to MB for covering this topic in the podcast, too.
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Thank you Rob, Kyle shows the heart and mind of a warrior, regardless of circumstance. Don't get me wrong, I was not dissing you, just focused on the original question of someone asking, " I am not focusing anymore and how do I not do that? " The responses have been great and I hope we have all answered the question.
"Never give up, Never surrender" Galaxy Quest. But still applies, as you suggested.
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Cool thread!
I don't think any of us can be aware at all times. I believe it would physically and mentally wear you out. Like Rob said, stay aware as much as you can. But, you better have some skills for when the awareness level is down and you miss something. Things taught by the likes of Rob, Tony Blauer, Tom Sotis, Marc Denny, Gabe Suarez etc.
My kids can distract me, I might be sick, might be concentrating on what just happened at work. All these things are part of everyday life and can take you out of the high level of awareness.