The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: david86440 on September 19, 2009, 04:13:16 PM
-
Schwarzenegger signed the bill into law back in 2007 so I just wanted to remind folks in CA that Dooms Day is almost here.
Most gun owners that I talk to out here don't even realize the bill was ever signed into law.
AB 1471 changes California definitions of "unsafe handgun" and also requires that:
"7) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol, etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions. The Attorney General may also approve a method of equal or greater reliability and effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number of a firearm from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm than that which is set forth in this paragraph, to be thereafter required as otherwise set forth by this paragraph where the Attorney General certifies that this new method is also unencumbered by any patent restrictions."[4]
SAN FRANCISCO (KCBS) -- California will soon be the first state requiring semiautomatic handguns to have technology to microstamp each bullet fired from the weapon. The microstamp would identify a gun's make, model and serial number on a bullet cartridge. The law takes effect in 2010.
By signing the microstamping legislation Governor Schwarzenegger chose to disregard warnings that major firearms manufacturers would be forced to abandon the California market altogether rather than bear the astronomical costs associated with reconfiguring the manufacturing and assembly processes necessary for microstamping.
Backers of the bill argue the law will give police a useful tool. "If all that is left are gun casings, especially in things like drive-by shootings, there still is a very effective way to trace who owns that gun," said Kay Holmen, president of the California Chapters of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.
"Governor Schwarzenegger has now effectively banned more firearms than Senators Kennedy, Feinstein and Schumer combined," said Lawrence G. Keane, NSSF senior vice president and general counsel. "The governor has proven to gun owners and sportsmen that he is just another liberal anti-gun Hollywood actor -- he just plays a moderate Republican on TV. Mr. Schwarzenegger has now exposed himself for what he really is, the most anti-gun and anti-sportsmen governor in America."
-
there are several loop holes in that bill. Until the process is in the public domain, it will never be in affect.
-
Still, boycott CA in every possible way.
-
there are several loop holes in that bill. Until the process is in the public domain, it will never be in affect.
Lets hope so, but people also said back then that the governor would never sign it so don't worry about it.
The technology is available as I've heard that the ones that hold the patent are the ones that sold the idea to the state.
With any new, innovative technology, there are going to be questions concerning the effectiveness and durability of the process and microstamping has not been immune to naysayers. One line of criticism has focused on whether the technology can withstand wear and tear under the violent conditions that exist within the chamber of a firearm. In order to l
answer such claims, the technology has undergone numerous, rigorous tests with firearms including the Colt .45 (1911), S&W 4006, Ruger Mark III, SIG P229, AR-15, and AK-47.3
Microstamping represents an evolution in ballistic identification because it can identify the serial number of a firearm directly from an expended cartridge case found at a crime scene. Originally created in the 1990s by Todd Lizotte and Orest Ohar, microstamping uses precise laser technology to engrave intentional microscopic markings on the internal mechanisms of a semiautomatic pistol (e.g., the breech face and the tip of the firing pin). When the handgun is fired, these engravings are stamped onto the cartridge—identifying essential information including the make, model and serial number of the weapon in the form of alphanumeric and geometric codes. Information extracted from these codes can be used to trace a firearm used in a violent crime, even if the crime gun itself is never recovered.
-
The idea that companies will go to the expense of including this technology into their manufacturing process to satisfy one state, when all other states it's been introduced in have rejected it, even NJ, is unrealistic. They will simply follow Ronnie Barret's lead and no longer market their products in Ca.
-
the other big loop hole, is if the gun is already on the approved list, it does not need to meet the new standard.
Arny signed the bill in reltailation for a few choice words/actions from a gun group that shall remain nameless.( he said as much in a interview.) basicly they went gung hoe over the lead ban deal for hunting and got bit in the ass by this POS.
Tom, barret did the right thing, other companys like STI are the ones I can't stand and will never buy thier products.
for those that don't know, about 8-9 years ago STI pulled all non LEO sales from CA( leos could still buy them) it was do to a lawsuit bill that passed here. fast forward a few year, rommie did his thing. then STI ran an ad campign that they had pulled all sales from CA, only prob was they had already pulled all sales from CA. They did it strickly to get biz, which is fine, only they claimed it was for political reasons. Once again thats fine, just don't lie thru your teeth to me. If they had told the truth I would still respect them as a company.
Tom as you know, we have more gun owners in CA, then most states have population. any big company that all of a sudden stoped selling guns in CA would take a huge hit in thier pocket books. I don't see any major manufactor doing that.
-
the other big loop hole, is if the gun is already on the approved list, it does not need to meet the new standard.
Gun list approval is only for 2 yrs, then it has to be re certified.
-
nope, they just have to pay the fee after 2 years to keep it on the list. if there ever is a lapse then they have to have it recerfied.
-
nope, they just have to pay the fee after 2 years to keep it on the list. if there ever is a lapse then they have to have it recerfied.
OK, you win...... I've run out of arguments. ;)
-
Don't sweat David, TAB is this forum's Kalifornia insider that is staying until the bitter end....Right up until they kick in his door and seize his stuff..
P.S. Barret DID do the right thing...
;)
-
Don't sweat David, TAB is this forum's Kalifornia insider that is staying until the bitter end....Right up until they kick in his door and seize his stuff..
P.S. Barret DID do the right thing...
;)
I really feel sorry for the people that live here and accept their fate in life. Some actually think it's "normal" here not ever having lived any place else.
-
I've heard that nearly all of the gun makers will pull a Barrett and not even sell to CA law enforcement, if it is ever enforced. I hope they do stand up. They can just starve them, until the law is reversed. The cops would get any Governor to do that. They might do without one brand of specialized .50 cal too, but not without their everyday tools.
Californians buy more guns than anyone else. There is a local gun dealer here that lives in Texas and flies here every week to sell guns and only goes home on weekends. He says that he can't do a quarter of his business in Texas and Californians will also pay more.
-
STI moved to Texas
-
Policy Change Regarding State Exemptions for Authorized Peace Officers
Effective immediately, peace officers who have legislative authority to carry and use firearms may, without a letter signed by the head of their agency or the agency head's designee, purchase non-rostered handguns and/or large capacity magazines. The peace officer must present a valid peace officer identification card and the dealer must retain a copy of the identification card on file. (PC 12132 & 12133). A letter is still required from the head of the agency to exempt the peace officer from the ten day waiting period. (PC 12078).
-
I've heard that nearly all of the gun makers will pull a Barrett and not even sell to CA law enforcement, if it is ever enforced. I hope they do stand up. They can just starve them, until the law is reversed. The cops would get any Governor to do that. They might do without one brand of specialized .50 cal too, but not without their everyday tools.
Californians buy more guns than anyone else. There is a local gun dealer here that lives in Texas and flies here every week to sell guns and only goes home on weekends. He says that he can't do a quarter of his business in Texas and Californians will also pay more.
They won't learn, and I have had it with kalifornia. Let 'em starve even if they do reverse the law - they will just pass another down the road. I would keep the embargo on them until they put a constitutional amendment in place that prevents this nonsense now and always. And then keep the embargo on another year or so just to drive the point home! F 'em! Seriously, F 'em!
-
Tom as you know, we have more gun owners in CA, then most states have population. any big company that all of a sudden stoped selling guns in CA would take a huge hit in thier pocket books. I don't see any major manufactor doing that.
If that were true, why do so many anti gun polititians keep getting elected? I have no doubt that you'll still be able to get the firearms you desire. You'll just have to pay 3 or 4 times what the rest of the country pays.
-
If that were true, why do so many anti gun polititians keep getting elected? I have no doubt that you'll still be able to get the firearms you desire. You'll just have to pay 3 or 4 times what the rest of the country pays.
I desire a S&W model 17, Bond Arms Derringer, Para GI, Taurus Judge, NAA22mag with a 1.625" barrel, Bushmaster.50 BMG,AK-47, 20 round mags for my 1022, but guess what? Can't buy them here...so it ain't going to happen until I move back to AZ.
-
If that were true, why do so many anti gun polititians keep getting elected? I have no doubt that you'll still be able to get the firearms you desire. You'll just have to pay 3 or 4 times what the rest of the country pays.
Actually CJ he is right, NH has a population of 1 million (or so ) Alameda county, where I lived out there had a population of 1.1 million, and there are 12 other counties in the Bay area just as full, If 5 million Ca. residents are gun owners, they are still out numbered 4 to 1.
-
Actually CJ he is right, NH has a population of 1 million (or so ) Alameda county, where I lived out there had a population of 1.1 million, and there are 12 other counties in the Bay area just as full, If 5 million Ca. residents are gun owners, they are still out numbered 4 to 1.
4 to 1? 25% of a voting population is considered a voting block.
Considering that less than half of registered voters ever show up to vote, gun owners should be a very considerible voting block. If they are not, that means they just don't care, or they are so self absorbed, that they deserve whatever happens to them. Most won't notice something amiss until the front door is kicked in for the search warrant.
-
We have too many voters that don't believe that guns are an important enough issue to vote on and a lot of Dem/dim voters that would be willing to let their rights, including their guns, go for the promises/spending that the liberals make. To me, gun rights are the canary in the coal mine and if they don't support my rights, they can't be trusted with anything else either.
-
4 to 1? 25% of a voting population is considered a voting block.
Considering that less than half of registered voters ever show up to vote, gun owners should be a very considerible voting block. If they are not, that means they just don't care, or they are so self absorbed, that they deserve whatever happens to them. Most won't notice something amiss until the front door is kicked in for the search warrant.
I agree. It seems gun owners in CA have the attitude that "oh, that will never happen here" such as this current bill, but it does happen over and over. I think it's too much smoke from the fires, or that weed that grows out here.
It is really the attitude that TAB has trying to convince himself that it won't happen.
the other big loop hole, is if the gun is already on the approved list, it does not need to meet the new standard.
Arny signed the bill in reltailation for a few choice words/actions from a gun group that shall remain nameless.( he said as much in a interview.) basicly they went gung hoe over the lead ban deal for hunting and got bit in the ass by this POS.
Tom, barret did the right thing, other companys like STI are the ones I can't stand and will never buy thier products.
for those that don't know, about 8-9 years ago STI pulled all non LEO sales from CA( leos could still buy them) it was do to a lawsuit bill that passed here. fast forward a few year, rommie did his thing. then STI ran an ad campign that they had pulled all sales from CA, only prob was they had already pulled all sales from CA. They did it strickly to get biz, which is fine, only they claimed it was for political reasons. Once again thats fine, just don't lie thru your teeth to me. If they had told the truth I would still respect them as a company.
Tom as you know, we have more gun owners in CA, then most states have population. any big company that all of a sudden stoped selling guns in CA would take a huge hit in thier pocket books. I don't see any major manufactor doing that.
-
the county I just moved from had 2.2 millon in it. its very simple, the bay area and the LA area run the state. the rest of the state just does not have the population to counter act them. more countys were won by McCain in the last election then Obama, yet he got 60% of the votes. Like it or not, to most people in large citys, guns are evil. Thier only exp with guns is acts of violance. I've had a gun pulled on me 3 times in my life. I know many other that have had simlar exps.
-
I agree. It seems gun owners in CA have the attitude that "oh, that will never happen here" such as this current bill, but it does happen over and over.
If Soros and the other puppeteers that have their hands up our figurehead government's butt get their way, it's going to happen all over the Country. It's not just a saying that as California goes, so goes the nation. It just takes a while and sinister planning and timing.
-
Newly Added Handgun Models
Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms
The following handgun models have been recently added to the DOJ Handgun Roster and may be sold, manufactured, etc., within California unless such sale, manufacture, etc., is otherwise prohibited under California
Make Model Caliber Type Barrel Length Date Added
Sig Sauer, Inc. (Sauer, J.P. & Sons,Sig Arms) P228R (Blued) / Steel, Alloy 9mm Pistol 3.9" 8/18/2009
And this is just page 1 of 16 pages of the CA de-certified handguns list.........
Shouldn't TAB be worried?
De-Certified Handgun Models
Department of Justice Bureau of Firearms
The following handgun model listings have expired and consequently have been removed
from the DOJ Handgun Roster and may no longer be sold, manufactured, etc., within
California unless such sale, manufacture, etc., is otherwise expressly allowed.
Make Model Caliber Type Barrel Length Date De-Certified
Bersa (Industria Argentina)Thunder 45 Ultra Compact (Matte)/ Alloy, 4140 Steel.45 ACP Pistol 3.6" 9/8/2009
Walther USA (CarlWalther)P1 (Century Int'l) / Composite,Steel9mm Pistol 4.94" 8/21/2009
Kimber Ultra Ten II / Stainless Steel,Polymer.45 ACP Pistol 3" 8/19/2009
Ed Brown Products SF-BB-CAL (Special Forces) /Carbon Steel.45 ACP Pistol 5" 8/16/2009
Firestorm (Gabilondo) Mini Fire Storm 9mm / Blue Steel,Alloy9mm Pistol 3.375" 7/29/2009
Ed Brown Products Executive Target "ET-BB-CAL" /Carbon Steel.45 ACP Pistol 5" 7/18/2009
Kimber Team Match II / Stainless Steel .45 ACP Pistol 5" 7/17/2009
Sturm, Ruger & Co. P95L / Blued Steel, Stnls Steel,Polymer9mm Pistol 3.90" 6/25/2009
Ed Brown Products KC-SS-CAL / Stainless Steel .45 ACP Pistol 4.25" 6/24/2009
Browning Buck Mark Micro Standard URXSE MS / Steel, Alloy.22 LR Pistol 4" 6/18/2009
Browning Buck Mark SE MS Lt Splash 7.25URX FO, Adj S / Steel, Alloy.22 LR Pistol 7.25" 6/18/2009
Sturm, Ruger & Co. KMK512GCUS / Stainless Steel .22 LR Pistol 5.5" 6/18/2009
Sturm, Ruger & Co. P97D / Blue Steel, Polymer .45 ACP Pistol 4.25" 6/13/2009
Magnum Research BE9900RB / Steel 9mm Pistol 3.5" 6/11/2009
Sturm, Ruger & Co. KGP-141TG / Stainless Steel .357 Magnum Revolver 4" 6/3/2009
Sturm, Ruger & Co. KSP-321XTG / Stainless Steel .357 Magnum Revolver 2.25" 6/3/2009
Sturm, Ruger & Co. KP95DPR / Stainless Steel,Polymer9mm Pistol 3.9" 5/27/2009
Sturm, Ruger & Co. P95DPR / Blue Steel, Polymer 9mm Pistol 3.9" 5/27/2009
Sturm, Ruger & Co. KP944D / Stainless Steel, Alum.Alloy.40 S&W Pistol 4.20" 5/15/2009
Wednesday, September 09, 2009 Page 1 of 16
-
if they don't pay the fee, they are removed. thats nothing new.
-
So, how does this work?
Does this only apply to new firearm purchases? If I buy a gun that is "approved", then the gun becomes "un-approved", can I sell it to another individual?
-
if they don't pay the fee, they are removed. thats nothing new.
My point is the fact that they are no longer available, don't you see what is happening????????? Aren't you concerned?
-
some of those guns are also no longer made.
how it works is a ffl can not sell the gun or transerfer it from out of state. P2P in state, you can still get what ever you want.
-
some of those guns are also no longer made.
how it works is a ffl can not sell the gun or transerfer it from out of state. P2P in state, you can still get what ever you want.
At an artificially inflated price
-
I've never found that to be the case tom.
-
My point is the fact that they are no longer available, don't you see what is happening????????? Aren't you concerned?
some of those guns are also no longer made.
how it works is a ffl can not sell the gun or transerfer it from out of state. P2P in state, you can still get what ever you want.
At an artificially inflated price
I've never found that to be the case tom.
that means they just don't care, or they are so self absorbed, that they deserve whatever happens to them. Most won't notice something amiss until the front door is kicked in for the search warrant.
Point made.
-
August Unemployment numbers were just released, CA is at 12.2% I really doubt guns are on the top of anyones list right now.( NV is at 13% )
look at it nationally, there is what 100 mil gun owners? how many of those are NRA members? 4-5 mil tops.
-
August Unemployment numbers were just released, CA is at 12.2% I really doubt guns are on the top of anyones list right now.( NV is at 13% )
look at it nationally, there is what 100 mil gun owners? how many of those are NRA members? 4-5 mil tops.
I'm always looking for a deal on guns. Just the fact that CA requires going through an FFL for even private sales adds considerably to the cost over what it can be purchased for in other states that allow face to face private sales.
I hate that when I see something on Gun Broker or Gallery of Guns that I want to buy........ sorry, not on the approved list, or sorry, we don't ship to CA.
The unemployment here is even higher, but down from 20% a few months ago.
Colusa County dropped from 16.4 to 15.7 percent — sixth highest in the state. Sutter County's rate was 13th highest in the state at 15 percent — a decline from 16.4 percent in August.
In the Mid-Valley, Yuba County's rate dropped from 18.4 percent in July to 17.5 percent in August, though it remained second highest of all counties in the state. Only Imperial County's 28.7 percent was higher.
-
Hmmm, microstamping sounds like another FINE reason to carry a wheel gun! The cases leave with you! ;)
-
Hmmm, microstamping sounds like another FINE reason to carry a wheel gun! The cases leave with you! ;)
We actually agree on something!
-
We actually agree on something!
For your sake, you better hope that doesn't happen very often. ;)
-
The problems with California are legendary. I fought the anti-gunners there all my life. The way they have carved up the districts there will always be a Democratic majority with the occasional Republican governor. Things really got out of hand when they passed the assault weapons ban in 1989. It is only going to get worse. I am one of the lucky ones. I escaped to Texas,where I was able for the first time in my life buy a gun as a free man, pick it out, pay my money and walk out the door right then, just like we all should be able to do. It is amazing that as progressive as the government of California has been, you would think it would be a paradise by now. The bad part is the current regime in DC is heavily influenced and financed by the same corrupt people and ideas put forth out there. If anything, CA is a preview of what they would have gun laws become nationally.
-
If anything, CA is a preview of what they would have gun laws become nationally.
We are the beginning of George Soros' plan for the whole Country.