The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Teresa Heilevang on November 11, 2007, 11:46:38 AM
-
I thought this was very good when I read it ...
Ten Things the Republican Nominee Must Understand to Earn the True Conservative Vote
By Douglas MacKinnon
1. First and foremost, he needs to understand that, by the tens of millions, true conservatives do exist in our country. That their unbending beliefs make them -- not only the backbone of this nation -- but the hope for a better future. That they unashamedly love their country and have reached the point of no return with regard to political correctness and pandering politicians who place themselves above the welfare of our Republic.
2. He needs to understand that they have a deep and abiding belief in God. A belief that is under a daily, escalating and obscene assault from those on the left who only use the word "Christian" as an insult, a punch line, or as an identifier to be added to a blacklist to deny employment at most schools, colleges, newspapers, and television networks. He needs to understand that this is a belief that must be acknowledged, respected, and defended. He needs to understand that all life is sacred and that it begins at conception.
3. He needs to understand that true conservatives believe we live in a sovereign nation with clearly defined borders that must be protected. Period. He must understand that the invasion of illegal aliens is not only a threat to that sovereignty, but widens the pathway for terrorists to infiltrate our nation. A scenario that the House Committee on Homeland Security has already documented as becoming a reality. He needs to accept that there are those in our country who would turn the United States of America into part of a "North American Union." A suicidal strategy that was recently pushed and admitted to by former Mexican President Vicente Fox.
4. He needs to understand that we are engaged in a world-wide war against Jihadists and extremists who mean to wipe our nation off the face of the Earth. For that reason and more, it is imperative that we retain a national defense that is second to none. He needs to understand that true conservatives believe that the young men and women who serve in our military represent the very best of our nation and must be given every consideration. That without their heroic service, we will be vanquished.
Sound Good...click Read More for the rest of the story...
5. He needs to understand that true conservatives do believe that large segments of the entertainment industry are purposefully and systematically exposing our children to the vilest forms of smut. That they do so first, to make money, and second, to indoctrinate as they continue their quest to subvert the morals, ethics, and character of our nation.
6. He needs to understand that true conservatives actually do believe in lower taxes and fiscal responsibility. That if you proclaim yourself to be a "Conservative" and turn your back on these tenets, then you are worse than those on the left who believe in neither. He needs to understand that true conservatives understand the value of limited government and expect their leaders to be just as enlightened.
7. He needs to understand that true conservatives believe in strict enforcement of the rule of law. That aside from the terrorists from without, our nation is at war with hundreds of thousands of violent gang members from within. That in many cases, these gangs are aligning themselves with drug cartels, terrorist groups and foreign nations. That if we don't acknowledge this war and win it, then many of our cities and much of our border, will spiral into lawlessness and unchecked murder as these gangs prevail.
8. He needs to understand that the appointment of judges is an overriding issue for true conservatives. That they believe in having a strict-constructionist Supreme Court. That there can be no compromise in this area.
9. He needs to understand that if he panders to them now to win the nomination and then stabs them in the back to try and win the general election, he has lost them forever.
10. And finally, he has to understand that true conservatives will never vote for the "lesser of two evils" come November of 2008. That to do so, would be to betray all that they hold sacred. Faith, family values, and conviction can never be compromised.
Douglas MacKinnon is a former White House and Pentagon official and author of the novel, America's Last Days .
-
Oh Marshal'ette - you know how I love to rebutt!
However this wasn't written by you, only quoted. I will say that I disagree with the title. The author claims ownership and authority to dictate what a true conservative is and stands for. This I disagree with. If he had said "Neo-Conservative" or Evangelical Republican, I might agree.
-
Dang it Cogz.. :P
You're making me crazy..............er.. ;D
whew... glad I didn't write it.. ..but for the most part... it IS a good outline to go by..
(take note that I said........For the most part) ;)
-
I will however identify what parts I disagree with briefly. (or just comment in some cases)
1. Conservatives like Liberals believe that they love their country. Socialists believe they love their country. Muslims believe they love their country. Parents who hit their children believe they love their children and many husbands who hit their wives believe it is because they love them so much. Love is expressed in many ways, and some of them are counter productive. Saying you love your country wins ME no brownie points.
4. While the 'Neo-Con' or Evangelical base might believe that we are in the midst of a world war, I hope that whomever becomes president goes after evidence before they escalate it TO a world war. In order to understand without IGNORANCE, you must sometimes listen to your enemies and what they say. Jihadists will NEVER kill our country. Responding to every little noise in the night like it was a wholesale invasion will surely drive us mad and bankrupt us.
5. He needs to understand that rather than take accountability for what our children watch, they would rather sit on their porches condemning what other people do. He needs to pass the buck to people who provide the smut, much like the gun makers provide the guns that kill our children! People cannot be trusted to take accountability or responsibility for themselves or their families.
7. I would love to see the evidence that street gangs are allying themselves with terrorists. The only place that this is even semi-true is how our prohibition of drugs drives the dealers and suppliers underground, thus ensuring enormous profits to the scoundrels who care less about life than profits. (and in the case of terrorists, what those profits can pay for) Once again, lets blame the symptom for the disease.
10. If people refused to vote rather than vote for the lesser of two evils, we would have even less of the population voting than we do now by a factor of 100. The problem isn't in the general election, its in the primaries. Even though I am a Ron Paul supporter, I admit that he is not the perfect candidate - but of the choices presented in the primaries, he is the closest to my ideal. I can't claim to know what the solution is - but it just goes to show through the success of Ron Paul, that the only way to increase exposure is to play the money game. I don't know how I feel about it.
-
In prez races I have voted for R. Reagan, Papa Bush, Bob Dole, and W. I have never voted for a Democrat for Prez since turning 18.
Point number 2 on this BS list tells me I am not a "true conservative". I am an agnostic and I don't believe life begins at conception. I don't believe abortion should be illegal. The only thing I ever agreed with Clinton on is abortion "should be safe, legal, and rare". I guess you want to kick me out of the Republican Party?
I also agree with Cogz and his points.
Butts like this guy and his list are no better than the butts and the agenda of the far left.
-
(http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd48/shin-yu/UncleSam.gif)
-
Well.. hell.................. now that you point out all of those points.. guess I don't really agree with the list either. But I didn't totally agree with each thing in it's entirety anyway .. but didn't take the time dissect it before I posted it either.
My mistake. :-[
Sometimes all this really confuses me to be honest. What are you considered if you are not too conservative.. but mostly conservative on some issues... kinda liberal to really liberal on other issues.. and very very downright stanch conservative on other issues? ???
Whatever that person is labeled is what I am.. but aside from that... I will never vote on the Democrat side.. regardless of anyone's opinion or idea of what a Republican is or is not...
So the vote is that the list on this thread is sh**...
( but it got some conversation going.. ;) )
And you good ole' boys are teaching me a few things too.. :) so I consider that good..
So actually it's not all bad.. LOL
-
Marshal'ette,
You are OK don't let them grind you down.
Bill
-
Marshal'ette,
You are OK don't let them grind you down.
Bill
+1!
-
I never intended to "grind" you down Marshal'ette, I like you too much.
I don't know if I would ever be able to vote for a Democrat either. If the D in question held (and upheld) my beliefs I might be able to cross the isle, but he/she would need to be a DINO (kinda like Giuliani is a RINO).
My only point was to answer to the insult I felt when I read what this guy read and what he said about me (because I didn't agree with much of what he said).
-
I never intended to "grind" you down Marshal'ette, I like you too much.
.
.
.
My only point was to answer to the insult I felt when I read what this guy read and what he said about me (because I didn't agree with much of what he said).
You may not intend to grind, but the net effect is the same.
You remind me of the site pests on Lucianne who lurk and make snippy little comments and then lurk some more. Annoying doesn't begin to cover it. And if you're insulted, learn to deal with it without lashing out around you - the world does not owe you anything, and certainly not an explanation for your feeling insulted.
As for your "points" in the earlier email, they were hard to read, they were that far off. Let me address just a single one, #4.
If you don't honestly believe, as Ron Paul apparently does not believe, that this is a world war, then both of you need to re-study your history. Or, forget studying history, just look at the recent news - bombings in Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Bali, et al. School take-overs and bombings in Russia and atrocities in Chechnya. Assaults on government officials in Afghanistan, more bombings in Argentina. The attempted bombing of LAX on 1/1/2002. The World Trade Center in 1993 - or is that too much history? Oh yeah, and the coordinated attack on NYC and Washington on 9/11/01. Not a world war? Get a grip, man, what do you think it is?
This so-called "religion" has been at war with the western civilizations almost since its founding, so it is not just because the USA is so dominant today. Were we not here, were the US not even started, the Muslims would still be attacking western civilization as it always has. It is the nature of that "religion" to attack in any way it can to achieve its own domination, the world caliphate. And if you don't agree, well, just do nothing and watch what they do next.
BTW, while I believe this is an unconventional world war, I also believe the gummint - as it usually does - has totally effed the response up, creating yet another giant bureaucratic "War on ___________" (fill in the blanks) to assume greater control over our lives and freedoms.
-
Cogz..I really didn't take anything that you said as "grinding away " at me. And I didn't take it personally. I try not to look at disagreeing as 'personal'.
You and I don't see eye to eye on some things and that's okay. It's the wonderful difference in people that keeps the world from being boring.
We may not be in the same pasture.. but I think we are damned sure on the same side of the fence. Hope so anyway..... :)
I figure that in any post there are going to be disagreements. and within those disagreements I always learn something.
Sometimes it's something I keep with me..and sometimes it's not. But as long as everyone can agree to disagree I think the conversations are healthy.
Being kinda only one of the few females in here that posts, in a room full of men.. I have to learn to have a tough skin if I am going to try to mix in. I love to hunt and have, for most of my life, and I can hold my own when it comes to talking hunting and fishing..
( had to learn early as I was the only female around here that hunted) and even though I own and use lots of guns.. I can't really talk "gun talk" as in calibers and kinds and bullets etc... so I make a half assed feeble attempt at talking politics and other general issues that are offered as choices in this forum.
And I am not the brightest crayon in the box sometimes on these issues either.. :D
I appreciate all of you guys gathering me in the circle sometimes... so to speak.... That's a special feeling.
Believe me.. if I feel that anyone has hammered at me unduly.. I will be the first one to speak up.
I am the "Queen" of the office of Down Range.. ;) and if I can keep Marshal in line.. I can crack the whip on all you other fellers if I have to. ;D :D
-
THANK GOD SOME SANITY. Lurking Again.
-
Now that I am satisfied that I am not offending anyone, I will try my best to discuss the opinion you stated...
Pathfinder, what is a world war in your eyes?
Could you give examples of how Islam has been at war with Western civilizations since its founding, and while you are at it, please give me some basis for your calling of Islam a "so-called 'religion'" that shows me how Christianity or Judaism is an 'actual' religion.
Were we not here, were the US not even started, the Muslims would still be attacking western civilization as it always has.
'The Muslims' huh? Which Muslims? All Muslims? Any attempt to categorize and simplify a diverse group of people only leads to misunderstandings at best, and all the worst of racism in its extreme. And blacks are violent and dumb and lazy and if they don't want to be here we should just send them back to Africa. (an example of simplification of a diverse group that borders on racism but IS accurate on a small subset of that race - as it would be accurate with any)
creating yet another giant bureaucratic "War on ___________" (fill in the blanks) to assume greater control over our lives and freedoms.
THIS I agree on.
-
Hay Cogz,
Are you a lawyer? I say the sky is blue or do you want to go into the minutia of refracting light waves?
Fact is the Muslim faith is built on violence. The Muslims have been attacking any and all not of their faith since its inception. What Muslims? Honestly, I don't care as the "good" Muslims have done damn all to stop the violence or even denounce it!
Now, GIVE IT (and the rest of us) A REST! This is a gun blog.
-
This is a Fred Thompson sub-forum that has items of political nature posted in it. It is part of a larger gun forum. I am participating in a discussion about an item posted on that sub forum. That I disagree with many here is the item of contention, not that items of political nature are discussed.
You say that its a fact that the Muslim faith is built on violence. Many people form this opinion based on what others tell them not because they read, research and understand. I am here telling you that the world is a complex place, and the rationalities that lead civilizations to war (and violence) have much more to do with land, power, and money than any ideological or religious bent. I have formed this opinion through actual research which I have shared on posts throughout this forum. You and all others can keep saying whatever you want, but if I disagree I am going to back up my opinions with what I think is rational thought. (hey, maybe its not 100% all the time but I try...)
Btw - (to) Marshall'ette, to boggle your mind, I delete nearly 1/2 of all the stuff I write here before it ever gets posted. I try not to post angry - it clouds your logic. There are emails that I write that never get sent, but unless I write them I will stew over an idea for days.
Anyhow...
To me the nature of being a TRUE patriot is the willingness to confront conventional thinking, to challenge authority. To THINK for yourselves. And just like the concept that if we don't exercise our rights to bear arms we will likely loose it - I choose to exercise my right to free speech. Even if it ticks you off.
And here is an offer. Being that this isn't a public forum - if Marshall'ette or her husband asks me not to post here anymore I will delete my account and move on. I respect the rights of the forum owner to control what goes on here.
-
Hi everybody! Don't worry, be happy!
Seriously... just like most of us who will admit it, many of the major religions and countries and PEOPLES have had periods or done things of which they are not proud, and during which impulses or fringe groups have hijacked the boat. Look at the US, for example. Many times the only voices that get press are the slimy-est of the liberals or the wingnut conservatives, and when they do they often give the rest of the group a bad name.
There are a_ _holes in every crowd, and they usually end up making the most noise or the biggest mess. Any discussion of their doings naturally brings in the lack of corrective action on the part of their group.
I have to agree with Cogz that this is America, and that if we're so all fired protective of the right to bear, we should be equally as protective of the right to speak freely. Having said that, Cogz's penchant for picking nits reminds me of the guy at the bar-b-que who just won't shut up about something and you end up just trying to get away because the discussion requires too much of your attention. (Said in a friendly spirit, Cogz)
Bottom line is, Cogz has every right to speak (write) freely and we should all respect that. If you take the bait, though, don't complain about the hook.
Now that I have pronounced it so, we can move on, although I'm not the Pope. Oh, wait a minute, there were those scandals....and the Inquisition....
-
although I'm not the Pope. Oh, wait a minute, there were those scandals....and the Inquisition....
Does this mean I am not Mother Teresa........ ???
Dang and all this time............ :'(
I agree with you Jay... Well said.
-
Could you give examples of how Islam has been at war with Western civilizations since its founding,
Cogz, I'll jump in here. Having started the Koran, and having read quite a bit on the theology of Islam, I'll venture here. From its inception in the 7th century AD, Islam has been at war with the West and the East.
Examples: from 621 AD to his death in 632, Mohamed made war upon the neighboring Arab and Bedouin tribes the area now known as Saudi Arabia. He eventually conquered Mecca and Medina.
Upon his death, from the 630s to the 660s, the Patriarchal Caliphate pushed the boundaries of the Islamic world to Egypt, portions of modern day Turkey, and portions of modern Iran and Afghanistan.
From 660s to 750ish, the Umayad Caliphate pushed in to Morocco, Spain, and further into modern day Iran. The battle of Tours and the subsequent Reconquista by the Spanish helped stem the tide of invasion in the West.
In the eastern Mediterranean, the Byzantines fought the Muslims, both the Islamic Arab tribes and the Islamic Turks/Ottoman Empires, until the Byzantine capital was destroyed in 1453. The Ottomans made the Eastern Europeans they subjugated either convert to Islam or pay a tax. Eventually, this tax came to be required in the form of their male children, many of whom formed the Janissaries, the elite infantry of the Ottoman Empire.
The Turks even besieged Vienna in the 1700s, but were repulsed by the timely arrival of the Polish King Jan Sobieski and his winged hussars.
From the late 18th century to today, the Islamic world, or ummah, has been in marked decline, in terms of relative wealth and power, and as such its ability to wage war upon non-Muslims has been limited.
However, the Islamic of government of the Sudan has killed many thousands of Christian or animist Sudanese to this day. Even now, in the Middle East, Christians, and the other non-Muslims are treated poorly, paying the dhimmi tax and being forced to follow humiliating regulations.
Oh, and the the areas the Muslims conquered, from the tip of North Africa to the Turkish peninsula, was Christan. Most either converted or died, and the Zoroastrians of the Sassinid Empire did the same. So, we have a faith that makes war on its neighbors when it can, and is in fact commanded to in his holy book and by its most venerated prophet to do so. This doesn't even touch on the Crusades or the Islamic advance into India, nor does it examine the Barbary Pirates or modern day Islamic terrorism, which dates back to around the 1920s
So, to be fair, Islam has and does make war upon Western civilization, as well as Eastern and African. Its holy book so commands, and the "majority of peaceful Muslims" make barely a peep against terrorism. Or have there been mass protests against Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, and the Islamic Brotherhood that the world media missed?
The problem is the simple fact that Islam has a holy book that says subjugate the infidel, and almost no thelogical opposition to this stance.To say it doesn't is to disregard the very basis of the Islamic faith, the Koran, and its interpretation, the hadith.
-
Thank you RecoveringGTer,
Cogz, for all his study of the subject, seems to have missed the historical facts of the Muslim religion.
I get tired of reading and talking to people that make excuses for their actions but somehow fail to know the history and it gets old teaching them what they should have known if they truly had read up on the subject.
-
GT'er, good summary.
I have a few comments to make but I have a full day of prep for my upcoming week. I will write more if I have the chance.
As a whole, you are correct - but where my differences come into play is in the justifications for expanding the Islamic empire, and the intolerance of other religions and people.
Hazcat - knowing history and knowing what it MEANS are two different things. GT'er and I both know history. Our difference is as to what it means and how we back up our opinions.
-
I have a few comments to make but I have a full day of prep for my upcoming week. I will write more if I have the chance.
Take your time. I think I my posting look somewhat obsessive/compulsive due to being busy and free to write at varying intervals!
As a whole, you are correct - but where my differences come into play is in the justifications for expanding the Islamic empire, and the intolerance of other religions and people.
I lok forward to your examination of those areas.
Hazcat - knowing history and knowing what it MEANS are two different things. GT'er and I both know history. Our difference is as to what it means and how we back up our opinions.
True. And, FWIW, while Hazcat and I may disagree with yuh, I like your style. Makes me think harder. Hope your week goes well.
-
Hazcat - knowing history and knowing what it MEANS are two different things. GT'er and I both know history. Our difference is as to what it means and how we back up our opinions.
Ah, the condescending attitude. As I disagree with you for my stated and obvious reasons and refuse to argue minutia with you I must not understand the MEANING of things.
No, it is you that refuses to LEARN from history and the plethora of attacks the Islamic religion has perpetrated upon the world from its inception! It is a violent cult that has at its core the dominance and reshaping of the world into their view though any means necessary.
You may call that close minded but I know that a tiger WILL bite me if I give it a chance no matter how much I wish it to be otherwise. Why? Because it is the very nature of the tiger to behave this way.
-
I don't quite get what you consider condescending... The only thing that I can figure is that you understand the statement "Our difference is to what it means etc..."
I didn't mean OUR as in GT and I to the exclusion of you all as if you don't know history. I meant that GT and I both know history (not to the exclusion of others) and OUR disagreement is based on our interpretation.
Just so you know - rather than leave this discussion in obscure threads, I have asked GT'er if he would like to move it to its own thread. I will see how he responds.
-
I said sure. Y'all come on over, once it's done.
-
So there you go everyone. GT'er are working on a format and title etc, and once its open we will start discussing again. Consider me done with the "10 things" thread.
-
Marshal'ette, Ma'am, in going back and forth, I forgot to add that I liked the 10 Commandments themselves. Thanks for posting them.
-
You guys go ahead. I'll stay here and have a few more bratwursts.
-
Can I have a cold beer with mine?
And I want mustard on my brats.. or sauerkraut.. whatever you got is fine.. but PLEASEEEEEE don't make me go over to that thread that they are starting.. ;D ;D
It is way over my poor blond head..and this one has about worn me slick. :'(
:)
-
Ooh. Brats and beer sounds real good right now. 'Specialy with kraut and mustard.
-
Not a big fan of sauerkraut.
SIG Sauer I am kinda partial to.
Either way, I loves me some brats! (preferably boiled in beer and giardiniera first)
-
Ooh. Brats and beer sounds real good right now. 'Specialy with kraut and mustard.
Not to start another skirmish, but can you hold the kraut on mine?
Thanks.
;D
-
I don't quite get what you consider condescending... The only thing that I can figure is that you understand the statement "Our difference is to what it means etc..."
I didn't mean OUR as in GT and I to the exclusion of you all as if you don't know history. I meant that GT and I both know history (not to the exclusion of others) and OUR disagreement is based on our interpretation.
Just so you know - rather than leave this discussion in obscure threads, I have asked GT'er if he would like to move it to its own thread. I will see how he responds.
If you don't know what condescending means get a dictionary.
As far as the quote, you did not mention "our" until you mentioned GT and how you back up your opinions.
Don't try to confuse the subject to cover you ass. You clearly said "Hazcat - knowing history and knowing what it MEANS are two different things." Please notice that that is a complete sentence and a complete thought not taken out of context. Those are your words verbatim.
Nice try at word games but, you lose.
-
Not a big fan of sauerkraut. (preferably boiled in beer and giardiniera first)
Not to start another skirmish, but can you hold the kraut on mine?
Sigh... No one seems to like kraut...not even my honey. Oh well.
Anyway, still planning on starting the thread in Gen'l Discussion.
-
GT,
Had brats and kraut last night. LOVE kraut, my son does too.
-
Me too.. and when I cook mine, I add some bacon grease to it.
Flavors it like nothing other.
Yummy
-
1. Tonight is Beer Night for my buds and I (true name: Men's Fellowship Night, but we shortened it for clarity and manliness), at a place that serves both Beer and Brauts!! W/ kraut!!
2. Cogz and I hammered out a start for the digression thread. In Gen'l Discussion forum.
-
Yeah, and I am insanely busy lately.
I have finally caved to the concept that I am working on an Independent feature film for free...
http://www.splitpillow.com/eyeofthesandman
At first I was doing it as kind of a favor, and was trying to limit my commitment as such, but last week I was in a funk because on days when I wasn't on set, I was still getting calls all day long. I think I will be just showing up to set every day until its done. Early December or perhaps on one of my days off I will do some research and take that discussion back to the top of the page GT'er.
-
RE: the original thread thought, I would probably take a 95% ditto on it, no real issues considering what some of the alternatives are.
Re: Islam, I will defer to this authority http://www.claremont.org/publications/crb/ID.1498/article_detail.asp, who I believe sums it up pretty well, but my personal Cliff Note take is that denying the violent component of Islam, even relative to any other purportedly theological philosophy, is simply denial of reality, and that Detroit is the most violent city in America, and probably the most Muslim, is not just coincidence. The Old and New Testament do not advocate conversion at the point of a sword.
Re: I will take my brat with sauerkraut and hot mustard, and do at least once a month.