The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: DeltaM on September 24, 2009, 08:11:05 PM

Title: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: DeltaM on September 24, 2009, 08:11:05 PM

When I took my CC course, I was surprised at the number of ladies 70 and up. One lady had a walker with the brake handles like a bicycle and a pouch between the handles with her "piece" concealed in the pouch. It would be a fair statement watching her get it out that she was just as fast as the holster on the hip crowd.  She reminded me of the Beach Boys and the little old lady from Pasadena.  These would be ideal for someone like her.  They might even make a 380 respectful.

The last gun show I attended, I found a product called Glaser slugs.  The sales pitch was that they are used by air marshals.  The only rounds he had for the weapons I own was in the 40 S&W.  At $15.00 for a pack of six, I only tried three on phone books and to try and see if they would cycle the slide on my Springfield XD.  They worked perfectly and seemed to be as advertised.  I nailed two of our local phone books to my backstop.  The first shot was with just one book, then two with two books.  Attached are the last pages of two books and the plywood backstop.

I might should add that the phone books are about 1 1/8 inches thick each.  The pic of the phone books are not very good as I didn't think to get one showing the thickness.

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 24, 2009, 08:59:09 PM

Thank's for the review.

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: ericire12 on September 25, 2009, 10:15:11 AM

I would suggest that unless you ARE preparing for self defense on an airplane or are really worried about penetration into another apartment or nearby room..... you might want to focus more on selecting a self defense round with high weight retention and try to stick with bonded ammunition. They will be able to deliver more energy to the bad guy and make the round more effective.

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: Dharmaeye on September 25, 2009, 10:26:41 AM

FBI insist on 12 inches penetration.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/ammodata.htm

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: DeltaM on September 25, 2009, 11:15:22 AM

A couple of points:  I'm not in the FBI, and I am concerned about what might be behind the bad guy if the round goes through him, or a sheetrock wall or ricochet.  The scenario of LE is to a different standard.  Their rounds are designed to penetrate a windshield at a specific angle (not sure what angle) also to penetrate 3/4" plywood and maybe even a car door at a much greater distance.  Getting through clothes would be important.   With a 14 round mag, it would be prudent to put a conventional solids behind the first three of four self defense rounds.  In the gangster days, that is what put LE with their 38 specials at risk.  They wouldn't penetrate the car doors built back then (not the case today). 

The thing about airplanes is collateral damage of people, not decompression of the airplane.  That is a movie myth.  Most of the planes leak air like sieves before a random hole gets punched through it. 

One test I would like to do is have the wallboard at least 3 1/2" away from another to see what the spread and penetration would be after the round hit.  I would suspect it would behave like an armor piercing RPG round.  The first layer opens up the round and after a given distance to the next surface, doesn't penetrate.  As I recall the Israeli tanks have chain dangling from their tanks for this purpose.

Don't knock it till you try it.

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 25, 2009, 11:42:59 AM

 This round probably is not what you want if you if you live in any type of rural area, It might be perfect though for some one in my situation, I live in a back apartment in a house originally built in 1805 in a city neighborhood, My nearest neighbor is on the other side of the living room wall, I have neighbors ranging form 6 to 100 feet away in all 3 other directions.

About the chain link on Israeli tanks, This is a defense against RPG anti tank rockets that was originated by the Red Army during WWII as an answer to Nazi Panzerfaust and Panzershreck rockets. These  anti tank weapons depend on a shaped charge warhead to penetrate armor. The void in the front of the shaped charge directs force of the blast into a concentrated point much like the flame of a cutting torch, by mounting bed springs (WWII Soviets ) or chain link at a distance from the armor the rocket is either stopped without detonation, or is caused to detonate at a distance from the armor that largly wastes the force of the blast.

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: brosometal on September 25, 2009, 10:43:50 PM

Modern example:  Strykers with slat armor

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: cooptire on September 26, 2009, 09:57:27 AM

Quote from: brosometal on September 25, 2009, 10:43:50 PM

Modern example:  Strykers with slat armor

And I thought that was to keep the camels out!    ;)

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: Walter45Auto on September 27, 2009, 12:55:35 AM

Quote from: DeltaM on September 24, 2009, 08:11:05 PM

When I took my CC course, I was surprised at the number of ladies 70 and up. One lady had a walker with the brake handles like a bicycle and a pouch between the handles with her "piece" concealed in the pouch.....

When I was in crutches due to a sprained ankle, I needed a way to get to a pistol that was ready to fire. IWB wasn't gonna work if I had to wrap my arm around a crutch to get to it. My dad has almost always carried in a pouch on his belt, so he has a dozen or so lying around. So I fixed one to each crutch. the one on the left so I could carry a bottle of water back from the kitchen, and the one on the right to keep my .357 in. Since I was Wandering around the house and not going anywhere, I kept the pouch unzipped so I'd be able to access the gun.

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: m25operator on September 27, 2009, 01:31:08 PM

A phone book target works against the concept of the Glaser. The bullet is copper jacket with lead shot ( #12 ) I believe,  with a teflon nose. It penetrates as long as it meets solid resistance, when the resistance is taken away, the lead shot comes out of the jacket and puts 100% of its energy right then and there, massive wound at that point. It works well on a body, especially center mass hits.

But when fired through a door, or wall, it peppers the other side with little effect, same thing with car doors or glass.

On the phone book, it was always meeting solid resistance. Not the best round for outside the home  IMHO, but useful indoors, or aircraft. I keep them loaded in my 2 1/2" S&W 19.

Get a free turkey this holiday season, thaw it out and shoot one into it, I think you will be impressed.

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: brosometal on September 28, 2009, 05:52:39 PM

Quote from: cooptire on September 26, 2009, 09:57:27 AM

And I thought that was to keep the camels out!    ;)

It serves a duel purpose.  One intentional, one just a bonus.  You pick what goes where.

Title: Re: Test trial with Glaser self defense round
Post by: pioneer on October 01, 2009, 03:16:36 PM

Glazers have been around for about 30 years or so, and can be a devastating SD round.  Trouble is, there is no way to know what your self defense needs will be ahead of time.  If you have to shoot through car glass, walls, doors, heavy clothing, etc., Glazers won't work well.  And no, Air Marshals don't carry them.  That's sales hype. 

I've never heard of a police department which has officers carry staggered loads for the same reason.  If your adversary is behind a barrier, your first 3 rounds or so are wasted, so you effectively get into the fight late and under armed.   I've been a firearms instructor, military and police, for over 30 years.  I've never heard of a special police ammo that goes through auto glass at a certain angle.  What is taught is, glass, especially windshields, will defelct bullets and your point of aim will be very different than your point of impact.  You can not shoot through glass with any degree of accuracy. 

Stick with major manufacturer SD rounds and you will be better served.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/police.png)