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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: fullautovalmet76 on September 29, 2009, 07:33:46 PM

Title: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on September 29, 2009, 07:33:46 PM
Alfsauve mentioned the book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell as a good read and I took him up on his recommendation. Thanks, Alf! This book is absolutely fascinating!

One of the points in the book is that in order to be a master of anything, one needs 10,000 contact hours to reach that point. The author's main point is that what we tend to ignore the environment someone comes from judging skill and success. To be sure, innate talent is necessary but not as much as one thinks.

I highly recommend the book and I think you all will find it enlightening.

-FA
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: Jackel on September 29, 2009, 07:36:43 PM
10,000 hours!

im a official ninja and that only took $865 and a 30min seminar.

you guys spend waaayyyyy to much time being losers




















 ;)
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: david86440 on September 29, 2009, 07:46:41 PM
I've found that all it takes to be an 'expect" or "master" is the title..................
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: twyacht on September 29, 2009, 08:25:04 PM
You guys got it ALL wrong.

$59.00 and a Holiday Inn Express!!!

The world is your oyster,....

 ::)

Thanks FullAuto, will check it out.

Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: david86440 on September 29, 2009, 08:27:44 PM
You guys got it ALL wrong.

$59.00 and a Holiday Inn Express!!!

The world is your oyster,....

 ::)

Thanks FullAuto, will check it out.




Hey, I've got 4 free nights at Holiday Inn to use by the end of the yr.  Can someone lend me the $59.00?
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on September 29, 2009, 08:31:03 PM
10,000 hours!

im a official ninja and that only took $865 and a 30min seminar.

you guys spend waaayyyyy to much time being losers
 ;)



 ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: Timothy on September 29, 2009, 08:40:59 PM
I've been doing pretty much the same thing for nearly 20 years, 40 hours (or more) a week, 50 weeks a year......40,000 hours is probably a conservative estimate...

I learn something new every day!  There is more to being an expert than experience, it takes the ability to adapt and change when necessary, to revise the thought process and re-evaluate things when unpredictable change occurs.
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on September 29, 2009, 08:53:17 PM
I've been doing pretty much the same thing for nearly 20 years, 40 hours (or more) a week, 50 weeks a year......40,000 hours is probably a conservative estimate...

I learn something new every day!  There is more to being an expert than experience, it takes the ability to adapt and change when necessary, to revise the thought process and re-evaluate things when unpredictable change occurs.

Timothy,
Get the book from the library or buy it from Amazon; I think you'll be enlightened.

Ever hear of Chris Langan? I had not until I read the book and he is someone not lacking in ability, but whose life is nowhere near what his talent "says" he should be at....
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: Ichiban on September 29, 2009, 09:06:28 PM
10,000 hours!

im a official ninja and that only took $865 and a 30min seminar.

you guys spend waaayyyyy to much time being losers

 ;)



Bastard!  Do you have any idea how much tequila burns the nasal cavities?
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: Timothy on September 29, 2009, 09:07:25 PM
I've never been able to get into non-fiction.  I find it rather tedious and boring, reminiscent of textbooks and technical manuals.

Give me good fiction or history and I'm hooked.  The rest, I'll take your word for it...no offense intended, I'm sure he's a talented author...

I've known dozens of so called "Experts" in their field in engineering who can't find their ass with both hands and a flashlight!


 ;D ;D
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: david86440 on September 29, 2009, 09:10:49 PM
I've never been able to get into non-fiction.  I find it rather tedious and boring, reminiscent of textbooks and technical manuals.

Give me good fiction or history and I'm hooked.  The rest, I'll take your word for it...no offense intended, I'm sure he's a talented author...

I've known dozens of so called "Experts" in their field in engineering who can't find their ass with both hands and a flashlight!


 ;D ;D

That's what I meant about having the title makes you an expert. I have worked with them and now I am one so I really know what I'm talking about!  ;)
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: Timothy on September 29, 2009, 09:14:05 PM
That's what I meant about having the title makes you an expert. I have worked with them and now I am one so I really know what I'm talking about!  ;)

According to recent statistics, nearly 50% of Masters degrees and Doctorates in the United States are FAKE!

Completely bogus!

Where's FQ?
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: Texas_Bryan on September 29, 2009, 10:28:46 PM
I've found that all it takes to be an 'expect" or "master" is the title..................

or being the smartest person in a room full of dumbasses.
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: PegLeg45 on September 30, 2009, 12:07:23 AM
I knew an expert once....he electrocuted himself while changing a fuse with the disconnect on.


Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: alfsauve on September 30, 2009, 04:52:03 AM
I've never been able to get into non-fiction.  I find it rather tedious and boring, reminiscent of textbooks and technical manuals.

Give me good fiction or history and I'm hooked.  The rest, I'll take your word for it...no offense intended, I'm sure he's a talented author...
 ;D ;D

Outliers might appeal to you, because it covers a lot of history in small chunks.   And the variety of history covered is from the pre-US Beatles to Bill Gates' early days, to wet rice farming.   And the book doesn't force any final conclusion.   It simply takes you from one example to another. 

Innate talent is important, but in the end, both practice and opportunity (right place/right time) are the more important factors.
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on September 30, 2009, 07:10:03 AM
Outliers might appeal to you, because it covers a lot of history in small chunks.   And the variety of history covered is from the pre-US Beatles to Bill Gates' early days, to wet rice farming.   And the book doesn't force any final conclusion.   It simply takes you from one example to another. 

Innate talent is important, but in the end, both practice and opportunity (right place/right time) are the more important factors

Nicely done, Alf.....I like the story about the Korean pilots too....Once I started reading the book, I couldn't put it down till I finished. Now I am reading Tipping Point.
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: Rob Pincus on September 30, 2009, 08:29:13 AM
Just remember that Gladwell has an agenda. He bases his books on solid research and science, but he tends to twist the conclusions to suit his view of the world. Such as the idea that individual ability is not as important as timing. I think he undervalues the role of motivation and dedication to achieving success.

The book is worth reading, as is his previous work, "Blink" but take Gladwell with a grain of salt.

-RJP
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: Badgersmilk on October 03, 2009, 09:07:15 AM
A day, a week, or 10,000 hours, if your not learning something new every day...  Your doing something wrong!
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: m25operator on October 03, 2009, 04:48:41 PM
" I think he undervalues the role of motivation and dedication to achieving success. "

Since I have not read the book, cannot comment on the authors ideas, but I agree with Rob that motivation and dedication is what will get you to commit 10,000 hrs to an endeavor or skill set. I would only add, make it a good 10,000 hrs, or 1 hr, with focus, purpose and a goal.
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: seeker_two on October 03, 2009, 04:52:09 PM
You guys got it ALL wrong.

$59.00 and a Holiday Inn Express!!!


In some states, that could lead to a solicitation charge....  :-*

or being the smartest person in a room full of dumbasses.

....which is why there's so much "expert testimony" in Congressional hearings....  ;D
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: fullautovalmet76 on October 03, 2009, 06:49:45 PM
" I think he undervalues the role of motivation and dedication to achieving success. "

Since I have not read the book, cannot comment on the authors ideas, but I agree with Rob that motivation and dedication is what will get you to commit 10,000 hrs to an endeavor or skill set. I would only add, make it a good 10,000 hrs, or 1 hr, with focus, purpose and a goal.

M25,
Gladwell's conclusions fly in the face of the conventional wisdom we have established about what it takes to be a success in whatever subject. And this conclusion is at odds with parts of what Rob believes and is why Rob thinks he is "twisting" things around. To disprove Gladwell, one has to take his research and one's own to come up with an alternative explanation; you can't just say "I don't believe it, so it can't be true"....

That said, when you read the book you will be exposed to the environment of those who are at the top of their field.
It helps explain why they are what they are today. In fact, the conclusion you come to is that you need talent, dedication (10K hours), and the opportunities to succeed. And those opportunities, alot of times, are dictated by the environment you come from.

Just read the book and see for yourself. Whether you agree with Rob's view or you develop one of your own, you will come away better for it in my view.
Title: Re: 10,000 Hour Rule
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 03, 2009, 08:50:50 PM
 I just got done reading "Rickenbacker, His own story" By Capt. Eddie Rickenbacker.
This guy quit school at 12 to feed his family, he started as a floor sweeper in a machine shop and ended up as Chairman of the ONLY unsubsidized profitable Airline in America. His auto racing was geared toward testing and improving automobiles, in the early 20's he formed his own successful car company, building his own design.
At Eastern his method of getting the best people was to look for "drive" he wanted to hire floor sweepers who wanted to work their way up to President of the Company. I guess the best way to describe it would be "all or nothing" if something was worth their time, it had to be worth ALL their time, and effort, otherwise don't even bother with a half hearted effort.