The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on October 05, 2009, 06:07:04 AM
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By Chandra Broadwater, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Monday, October 5, 2009
TAMPA — Michael Thourot had just pulled his hand away from the warm metal when it started spewing bullets.
Moments before, Sherri Thourot had watched her husband fire and reload the Jennings 9mm. Then he set it down for her to shoot next at the range.
That's when the handgun started firing on its own, she said, spinning around in circles, landing the Thourots and an Irish tourist in the hospital.
"Nothing like that has ever happened," said Sherri Thourot on Sunday evening from her room at Lakeland Regional Medical Center.
"We've been around guns all our lives."
It was about 10:30 a.m. Saturday when Sherri Thourot, 46, watched her husband, 47, set the gun down. The couple had decided to try out their new gun at the Saddle Creek Shooting Range in Lakeland.
They like the Polk County-owned range. It's strict and safe, the way the Thourots say they like to use their guns.
But as soon as Michael Thourot took his hand off the gun, it started firing like it was possessed, his wife said.
"I saw that he'd been hit, but I couldn't tell how bad," Sherri Thourot said. "Then I realized I had been hit. My hand was bent forward and I couldn't move my arm."
A bullet tore through the back of her right arm and exited from her biceps. Her husband had been shot in the left hand. Another man, a 29-year-old tourist visiting a friend, was hit in the shoulder and throat as he stood behind a shooting stall next to the Thourots.
All three were taken to the Lakeland hospital, where Michael Thourot and the tourist, Gary Flynn, underwent surgery.
Flynn was listed in stable condition at the hospital, while Michael Thourot was released Sunday. His wife said doctors put pins in his hand to help heal shattered bone.
She expected to leave the hospital today.
The Polk County Sheriff's Office said the gun may have been altered, leading to the malfunction. Detectives expect to know more when they take the gun apart and inspect it as they continue to investigate.
Sherri Thourot said her son, 29-year-old Jeremy, brought the 9mm back to the United States after one of his tours in Iraq with the Navy. He gave it to them this summer.
The couple cleaned the gun and made sure it was in good condition before taking it to the range, she said. They never expected to leave in an ambulance.
Before he left the hospital, her husband stopped in to see her.
"He's very shaken up over it," she said. "He's traumatized that anything like this happened to his wife."
But the freak accident won't keep her away from guns.
"I can't allow something like this to cause me to be afraid of something I've done all my life."
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/9mm-malfunctions-at-lakeland-gun-range-shoots-three-people/1041591
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What the..... ???
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The Polk County Sheriff's Office said the gun may have been altered, leading to the malfunction. Detectives expect to know more when they take the gun apart and inspect it as they continue to investigate.
Sherri Thourot said her son, 29-year-old Jeremy, brought the 9mm back to the United States after one of his tours in Iraq with the Navy. He gave it to them this summer.
The couple cleaned the gun and made sure it was in good condition before taking it to the range, she said. They never expected to leave in an ambulance.
Yeah, what the........? ? ?
Leaning toward the "modified" part of this one........ a botched 'trigger job' maybe?.......... before they took possession?
But I don't know..................has anyone ever 'cooked-off' a 9mm pistol before?
:o
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Yeah, what the........? ? ?
Leaning toward the "modified" part of this one........ a botched 'trigger job' maybe?.......... before they took possession?
But I don't know..................has anyone ever 'cooked-off' a 9mm pistol before?
:o
Yeah, perhaps some poor gunsmithing could be the cause there..... if the trigger was fiddled with and perhaps the sear was not properly adjusted I could see that perhaps could cause the gun to fire while just sitting there. I dont know how a sear failure could cause the gun to fire over and over again like in some kind of cartoon or something. ???
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Try putting the sear spring in wrong in a 1911 and see what happens. No don't. You might get a bunch of holes in your house.
It wasn't me but one of my friends. He didn't realize the sear spring slipped under the sear when he put it back together. He stuck a loaded mag in, dropped the slide and about 6 rounds went off before he could stop it. Luckily nobody else was home at the time.
His wife was not pleased.
Always do your function checks after cleaning or reassembling.
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There goes the safety training mantra of "Guns just don't fire themselves!" :o
Yeah, perhaps some poor gunsmithing could be the cause there..... if the trigger was fiddled with and perhaps the sear was not properly adjusted I could see that perhaps could cause the gun to fire while just sitting there. I dont know how a sear failure could cause the gun to fire over and over again like in some kind of cartoon or something. ???
I can see it. The poor sear engagement sets off the pistol when he sets it down and the recoil has just enough bounce to cause the next round to fire.
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Wow! I stand corrected........ Ok, Guns are evil..... or at least this one is...... and probably Haz's Mosquito.
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I can see it. The poor sear engagement sets off the pistol when he sets it down and the recoil has just enough bounce to cause the next round to fire.
If the sear engagement surface had been 'overly polished' and had a thin shelf, it was just waiting for a chance to 'show out'.
I know of a guy (and no, it was not me) who 'polished' too much surface area off the hammer-to-sear engagement hooks on a Buckmark .22. It fired many rounds with a sweet trigger pull until one day at the range it went full auto on him because the hooks had worn down enough that the closing of the slide caused them to dis-engage, and the hammer to fall a split second after.
Instant chain reaction that can only be stopped by running out of ammo or a jam.
There are a lot of variables at play.
One thing the home (or any) gunsmith has to be wary of is tolerance stacking.....where several small issues (that ordinarily would not cause problems by themselves) can add up to major issues when combined.
I'm so glad that no one was killed.
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I always just figured that on a semi, if the sear failed it would only be a one shot deal b/c the sear would need to reengage in order to fire additional rounds...... and what ever caused the sear to fail initially would cause it to not be able to reengage...... I guess I was profoundly wrong!
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I always just figured that on a semi, if the sear failed it would only be a one shot deal b/c the sear would need to reengage in order to fire additional rounds...... and what ever caused the sear to fail initially would cause it to not be able to reengage...... I guess I was profoundly wrong!
There's a first time for everything. ::)
;D
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When the sear/hammer engagement wears, it is possible for them to engage but not well enough to stay engaged. Usually just the shock from the slide closing will cause it to disengage.
The series 80 parts that are in a 1911 are there in case something like this happens. The firing pin can't travel forward unless the trigger is depressed. The problem is that these parts are easily removed and a lot of shooters do remove them because they have been known to cause malfuctions.
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There's a first time for everything. ::)
;D
>:(
http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=8693345
8)
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The Glock discharged, sending a 124-grain +P JHP into the ground behind the building.
Quickly moving to the range proper, the validated officer watched as the armorer thrice more attempted to arm the Glock. Twice more it "slam-fired."
On the third and final attempt, it lapsed into a three-shot burst. (As has been oft-observed by the author, full-auto fire is always exciting, but an event best planned for… spontaneity is good in many things, not, however, in firearms!)
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/upgrade-faq.html
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Glad no one was killed. But I do have to comment on "Luck of the Irish " ;D
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Jennings. I nearly bought a .380 Jennings and prior to purchasing I did a quick google search and there are some noted problems. I decided against buying one and bought a Beretta instead.
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My boss had a Hi power that would sometimes go off when the slide was released on a fresh mag. Thats what happen when triggers get f-ed with. I dont believe in messing with triggers, i have a fear of guns going off before there supposed to.
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The Jennings in my particular case was something to do with the sear being in the grip. If it was squeezed bumped or whatever just right it would go off.
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Jennings are junk, I'm not surprised. Zinc is the problem.
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Jennings is now out of business. They went bankrupt due to a law suit. They were put back together and the company is called Jiminez. I bought a .380, Jiminez, from a dealer at a gun show in Indiana and he told me all this gee-whiz info that I am sharing with you. The weapon was temperamental and I got rid of it. Really loved the shape and feel, but did not perform as expected.... :(
I agree with those who say you get what you pay for. If you are counting on your life, I would spend all monies applicable to secure your family.... Just my opinion. ;) And I would buy a Glock.......................................
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The story is fishy, a pistol, even with a malfunction, does not have enough mass, to cycle unless it is held or braced by something. Especially when laying on a table, providing additional friction on the slide. 1 shot, maybe, multiple, I just can't see it.
Inferior guns going full auto, held in a hand, I have seen more than once, .380 accutek, I sold new, full auto, Jennings, full auto, new in the box.
There is no SEAR spring on a 1911, that can be misinstalled, except for the Gold Cup Colt, all others, the sear spring is part of the 3 or 4 leaf spring, behind the grip safety, now yes you could with good effort, get the leaf spring under the sear, it would take some amount of stupidity or alcohol to do it, but could be done. The trigger should be awful if it worked at all. The gold cup however is a different story. Friend of mine, reassembled his GC, He worked at the indoor range, went out onto the range, dropped his slide on a full mag, in one hand, and it went FA, shot in the wrist, elbow and bicep. FA happens fast when your not prepared.
The disconnector should have stopped it, so I expect this was the failure, if it happened at all.
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The story is fishy, a pistol, even with a malfunction, does not have enough mass, to cycle unless it is held or braced by something. Especially when laying on a table, providing additional friction on the slide. 1 shot, maybe, multiple, I just can't see it.
Inferior guns going full auto, held in a hand, I have seen more than once, .380 accutek, I sold new, full auto, Jennings, full auto, new in the box.
There is no SEAR spring on a 1911, that can be misinstalled, except for the Gold Cup Colt, all others, the sear spring is part of the 3 or 4 leaf spring, behind the grip safety, now yes you could with good effort, get the leaf spring under the sear, it would take some amount of stupidity or alcohol to do it, but could be done. The trigger should be awful if it worked at all. The gold cup however is a different story. Friend of mine, reassembled his GC, He worked at the indoor range, went out onto the range, dropped his slide on a full mag, in one hand, and it went FA, shot in the wrist, elbow and bicep. FA happens fast when your not prepared.
The disconnector should have stopped it, so I expect this was the failure, if it happened at all.
Guess I just made that up, then. Thanks for the correction. ::)