The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Sghiandhu on October 12, 2009, 06:21:02 PM
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Hi,
Governor Schwartzenegger has signed AB962 which will severely affect the sale procedures of handgun ammunition in California <http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090921_enrolled.pdf (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090921_enrolled.pdf)>. He returned a signing message giving his reasons and saying he is pleased to sign it. <http://gov.ca.gov/pdf/press/2009bills/AB962_DeLeon_Signing_Message.pdf (http://gov.ca.gov/pdf/press/2009bills/AB962_DeLeon_Signing_Message.pdf)>
He apparently neither signed nor vetoed SB585 which prohibits gun shows at The Cow Palace (an agricultural exhibition hall venue on the County line) which effectively eliminates the opportunity to see in any quantity and buy firearms. Under California law, this bill not having been vetoed is permitted to go into law automatically.
Both measures would have effect from January 1st, 2010, although the fingerprinting/recordkeeping requirements of AB962 would be on February 1st, 2011.
All handgun ammunition sales would be face-to-face; recorded proof of identity, etc.; and thumbprinting of purchaser. No mail order or Internet sales. The earlier proposal to limit to 50 rounds per month was taken out of the watered-down version that was passed. Informal sharing, or reloading for friends, was argued, but is unclear now as this concerns sales by licensed handgun ammunition vendor sales. Prohibited persons may not buy handgun ammunition or have it transfered to them.
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RINO!
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Hi,
It seems that SB585 Cow Palace Gun Show Ban will be NOT be law
When I checked the state websites, I did not find SB 585 by search, and when looking at the list, did not see it. I've found on another website <http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=26011&forum_id=12&jump_to=551438 (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=26011&forum_id=12&jump_to=551438)>an official link to a VETO message for "The Cow Palace" measure: <http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/13564/ (http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/13564/)>.
I apologize for misreporting; I made a good faith effort to check only official results, and apparently erred. :(
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Hi,
Governor Schwartzenegger has signed AB962 which will severely affect the sale procedures of handgun ammunition in California <http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090921_enrolled.pdf (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_0951-1000/ab_962_bill_20090921_enrolled.pdf)>. He returned a signing message giving his reasons and saying he is pleased to sign it. <http://gov.ca.gov/pdf/press/2009bills/AB962_DeLeon_Signing_Message.pdf (http://gov.ca.gov/pdf/press/2009bills/AB962_DeLeon_Signing_Message.pdf)>
He apparently neither signed nor vetoed SB585 which prohibits gun shows at The Cow Palace (an agricultural exhibition hall venue on the County line) which effectively eliminates the opportunity to see in any quantity and buy firearms. Under California law, this bill not having been vetoed is permitted to go into law automatically.
Both measures would have effect from January 1st, 2010, although the fingerprinting/recordkeeping requirements of AB962 would be on February 1st, 2011.
All handgun ammunition sales would be face-to-face; recorded proof of identity, etc.; and thumbprinting of purchaser. No mail order or Internet sales. The earlier proposal to limit to 50 rounds per month was taken out of the watered-down version that was passed. Informal sharing, or reloading for friends, was argued, but is unclear now as this concerns sales by licensed handgun ammunition vendor sales. Prohibited persons may not buy handgun ammunition or have it transfered to them.
Too bad for California.....I predict a surge in ammo sales preceding the Feb. 2011 date......When will the gun owners of CA rise up?
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The heads up was posted on this forum, recently. As much as Kalifornia, (some) would love to have this passed, as fast as politicians cover their ass, I'm glad to see it hasn't passed yet.
RINO!
Just like Bloomberg, they will sell themselves for Federal funding to help their broke Liberal states.
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I predict ammo sales in NV, OR and AZ will go up.
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The ammo makers should boycott Kalifornia all together untill this stupid law is dead! If I owned an ammo business, I'd be damned if I would sell another round to any State agency there!
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I wish it was that simple, but its not. Cutting out sells in CA would put a huge dent in your sale. Now a small company, that sell spealized ammo, might be able to make that work. The larger ones don't have that option.
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I don't know, there are still 49 other states plus the Military. Besides, with Cailifornia's budget the way it is, I would be afraid of not getting paid.
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yes there are 49 other states, but we have more LEOs in CA then some states have in population.
lets just asumme there are X ammount of LEOs per person and that number is the same nation wide.
The population of the US, is 300 mil + or - the population of CA is 36 mil.
Taking a 10% cut in sales is going to hurt very badly.
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True, but just cutting out CA. would cure the ammo shortage for the rest of us! ;D
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[First I'd love to see some of those sentences in that law diagrammed. Whew....Some aren't really sentences, just rambling statements.]
I see there are exceptions for Law Enforcement. I wonder how many "licensed ammunition dealers" will require EVERYONE to follow the process......local, state and fed LEOs.
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yes there are 49 other states, but we have more LEOs in CA then some states have in population.
lets just asumme there are X ammount of LEOs per person and that number is the same nation wide.
The population of the US, is 300 mil + or - the population of CA is 36 mil.
Taking a 10% cut in sales is going to hurt very badly.
You're missing the point.
It's called making/taking a stand against bureaucratic idiocy for the greater good of the nation......AKA having balls.
Yes, it would cost the ammo companies money in the short run (not as much as you'd think, due to demand), but they'd make up for it in the long run because the 'no-sale to Ca-Ca' wouldn't last long.
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Problem is that all it would take is one defector (probably foreign) and its over. Like any strike without solidarity, you lose.
FQ13
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Problem is that all it would take is one defector (probably foreign) and its over. Like any strike without solidarity, you lose.
FQ13
Well, yeah...that's a given......I am smart enough to know that.........................
I was just daydreaming in the hypothetical world of 'ought'.
Greed plays a big role in keeping people (companies) from doing what they 'ought' to do.
Hell, if everyone in this country did what they 'ought' to do, most of the issues we discuss on here would be moot points to begin with.....and the country wouldn't be spiraling back towards the dark ages.
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Well, yeah...that's a given......I am smart enough to know that.........................
I was just daydreaming in the hypothetical world of 'ought'.
Greed plays a big role in keeping people (companies) from doing what they 'ought' to do.
Hell, if everyone in this country did what they 'ought' to do, most of the issues we discuss on here would be moot points to begin with.....and the country wouldn't be spiraling back towards the dark ages.
Yup, greed and shortsightedness. Long term an ammo strike makes sense for manufacturers, short term, the temptation to defect is too great. Its like the mortgage crisis. These guys new it was going to implode, if they'd done right they'd be fine, no need for a baliout, but they couldn't resist. There's even a fancy model for it (now days involving lots of useless math) called stag hunt. Four cave men are hungry. They agree that one will chase a stag to the others. If everyone does their job, they all eat. If one chases a passing rabitt, three go hungry. Key is to set up incentives not to defect. It's darn hard, and you are right its why are in a lot of the ecoomic mess we are in today with everything from the credit market to illegals, to shipping jobs and industries over seas. The sad thing is Rousseau came up with this model 200 years ago and we still haven't clued in.
FQ13 :P
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I predict ammo sales in NV, OR and AZ will go up.
When the big Small Arms Review Show comes to the Fairgrounds here in Phoenix in December, the parking lot is full of cars with California plates on them. Bill T.
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yes there are 49 other states, but we have more LEOs in CA then some states have in population.
lets just asumme there are X ammount of LEOs per person and that number is the same nation wide.
The population of the US, is 300 mil + or - the population of CA is 36 mil.
Taking a 10% cut in sales is going to hurt very badly.
Yes, TAB, you are always happy to trot out facts like this. What you don't get - maybe because it impacts you directly - is that your facts are exactly why kalifornia has to be boycotted. When LEOs can't get ammo to fight the crime and gang-bangers, don't you think Sacramento will get the message?
If you have a business partner who in return for you doing nice things for them, routinely punches you in the face, steals your money, makes public disparaging comments about you, and in general acts like a total asshole towards you, do you continue the relationship, even though you make lots of money off of him? No. You terminate the relationship.
I think ALL sales of anything gun-related to kalifornia - holsters, magazine, spare parts, sight, buttstocks, everything - must be stopped. Completely. Totally. I am contacting my usual mail-order sources to suggest this very fact. I am also posting this on other boards and blogs I frequent. I would like to ask all DRTV forum members to do the same.
And if a vendor continues to sell to kalifornia customers, do not buy from them and let them know why. S&W finally - under new management - saw the light of consumer rage. Let's turn that rage onto kalifornia and hurt them any way we can until they stop - and reverse - the insanity.
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Path,
I like your ideas, including and especially NOT buying from those mfgs, and sales organizations that continue to do business with Commiefornia.
We MUST 'punish our own' if they fail to support us and the 2A!
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Path,
I like your ideas, including and especially NOT buying from those mfgs, and sales organizations that continue to do business with Commiefornia.
We MUST 'punish our own' if they fail to support us and the 2A!
would that work ???
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Plain and simple...I'm in. Writing today.
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You're missing the point.
It's called making/taking a stand against bureaucratic idiocy for the greater good of the nation......AKA having balls.
Yes, it would cost the ammo companies money in the short run (not as much as you'd think, due to demand), but they'd make up for it in the long run because the 'no-sale to Ca-Ca' wouldn't last long.
you missed the point, 10% cut could mean the diffrence between staying in biz and going out of biz.
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Path, I like your ideas, including and especially NOT buying from those mfgs, and sales organizations that continue to do business with Commiefornia.
Ronnie Barrett has refused to sell or service any .50 caliber weapons to California law enforcement or military, (i.e. National Guard), since they banned the .50 BMG there. I like and respect a man who isn't afraid to put his money where his mouth is! Bill T.
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you missed the point, 10% cut could mean the diffrence between staying in biz and going out of biz.
TAB's logic, as usual, is flawed, 10% of the population does not equal 10% of the ammo buying public. Especially in an anti gun state like Ca.
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TAB's logic, as usual, is flawed, 10% of the population does not equal 10% of the ammo buying public. Especially in an anti gun state like Ca.
If you had read the thread,my post was in responce to selling to LEOs, I know CA has atelast 10% of th LEOs in this country.
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And they can throw rocks at the bad guys instead of lead. I agree, I like a company that "walks the walk"
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Yes, TAB, you are always happy to trot out facts like this. What you don't get - maybe because it impacts you directly - is that your facts are exactly why kalifornia has to be boycotted. When LEOs can't get ammo to fight the crime and gang-bangers, don't you think Sacramento will get the message?
If you have a business partner who in return for you doing nice things for them, routinely punches you in the face, steals your money, makes public disparaging comments about you, and in general acts like a total asshole towards you, do you continue the relationship, even though you make lots of money off of him? No. You terminate the relationship.
I think ALL sales of anything gun-related to kalifornia - holsters, magazine, spare parts, sight, buttstocks, everything - must be stopped. Completely. Totally. I am contacting my usual mail-order sources to suggest this very fact. I am also posting this on other boards and blogs I frequent. I would like to ask all DRTV forum members to do the same.
And if a vendor continues to sell to kalifornia customers, do not buy from them and let them know why. S&W finally - under new management - saw the light of consumer rage. Let's turn that rage onto kalifornia and hurt them any way we can until they stop - and reverse - the insanity.
Arguing with some folks (TAB) is like arguing with a possum........except sometimes the possum makes sense.
I like the way you put that, Pathfinder, and I'm forwarding an edited version to all my friends and posting on all forums that I am a member of.
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Listen to you idiots. Do you really think that this state would care if the business stopped dealing here? That would be one step closer to their utopian dreamland. The anti's out here don't support law enforcement either. They scream and cry for the badge of the LEO that commits a shooting on some poor underprivledged criminal.
Can you imagine all it would take to get every ammo maker, gun dealer, parts dealer to stop doing business with the LE community out here? Yeah, right. That'll happen.
Once again, you are letting your prejudices against California in general cloud your judgements to hurt those of us that live here.
So, pull your collective heads out of that dark stinky place you shove them whenever California comes up. Do something positive instead of negative to help us out. Donate to the California Rifle and Pistol Association for the legal fund. Write the Governator some hate mail. Lobbying business to stop selling parts and ammo to LE isn't going to work like you envision. Guess what'll happen? The feds will step in and supply the LE logistical needs here.
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Sounds to me like you all out there need to pull your collective heads out of your own asses and stop voting in so many bureaucratic idiots and these laws would go away without outside interference.
Take a spoon full of medicine and sweep around your own back porch.
Don't trash others for at least attempting to help out a state that doesn't seem to want to help itself.
I guess you get what you vote for.
Who are the real idiots?
Rant Off.
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Listen to you idiots. Lobbying business to stop selling parts and ammo to LE isn't going to work like you envision. Guess what'll happen? The feds will step in and supply the LE logistical needs here.
True only to a point. Remember, the government doesn't manufacture a single thing. They are totally reliant on private industry. The government of this nation can only succeed if the private sector does. No ticky, no washy. It's as simple as that. Cut off ammo production today, with 2 wars going on and just you watch how fast the big, bad, United States Government will squat and pee on the paper like good little puppy dogs! They're not used to the private sector getting this pi$$ed off at them. They soon will be. Believe me, this country has had quite enough! Bill T.
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Listen to you idiots. Do you really think that this state would care if the business stopped dealing here? That would be one step closer to their utopian dreamland. The anti's out here don't support law enforcement either. They scream and cry for the badge of the LEO that commits a shooting on some poor underprivledged criminal.
Can you imagine all it would take to get every ammo maker, gun dealer, parts dealer to stop doing business with the LE community out here? Yeah, right. That'll happen.
Once again, you are letting your prejudices against California in general cloud your judgements to hurt those of us that live here.
So, pull your collective heads out of that dark stinky place you shove them whenever California comes up. Do something positive instead of negative to help us out. Donate to the California Rifle and Pistol Association for the legal fund. Write the Governator some hate mail. Lobbying business to stop selling parts and ammo to LE isn't going to work like you envision. Guess what'll happen? The feds will step in and supply the LE logistical needs here.
TFR is just PO'ed because a boycott of Ca. would leave him without any new goodies to buy, can't say I blame him, BUT, Ca. is like the "storm center" of American political actions. All the meddling , Big Govt, "It's for the children" BS starts in Ca. Like Nixon and Microstamping, BS flows east. We will, If we do not take preemptive action, be fighting this in OUR states.
I'd rather see the shooters in Ca bumming today, than ALL of us disappointed later.
As for donating to CRPA. When I lived out there I was a member. Those donations went toward getting rid of Gray Davis and putting in a Republican, Arnie, (who I might add, doesn't give a hoot what I think any more than the liberal bootlickers I'm stuck with ).
Boycott might REALLY be a win / win for manufacturers . By "refusing to deal with " Ca. they get to divert inventory to to catch up their back orders to everyplace else, Ca. orders all go to the back of the line any way because now they have to be checked to make sure they actually legal under the new law. and it builds solidarity with their customer base at the same time by siding with the Freedom loving civilians over the forces of the "police State".
And, yes the feds would fill the short fall. BO does bailouts in his sleep.
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Hey Peg, You don't see what we're doing out here. Rant all you like...You're just pissed that somone disagrees with this and is calling BS on it. And since I'm a tactless a=hole when I disagree you're especially pissed on how I called BS on this idea.
I'm very active in this fight out here and we vote no on all the BS. I voted no on the recall, I vote against all the costly feel good measures and propositions, I vote against the libtards they put up for office. I'm not getting what I vote for. I call, write, email, call, write, email....
This idea is BS since it doesn't matter to the libtards out here. They'd see it as a victory. It is all nice to say boycott CA and all firearms supply companies that do business in this state. It is a massively stupid idea that will backfire.
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I think I might open a gun store either on the AZ or NV border with California! TAB will be making the trek and will gladly pay inflated prices to sell to the schmucks in CA for an even higher prices! Does this business model sound familiar to anyone?
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I'm in NV atleast once a month anyways...
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Hey Peg, Tom (might as well blame the right guy ) You don't see what we're doing out here. Rant all you like...You're just pissed that somone disagrees with this and is calling BS on it. And since I'm a tactless a=hole when I disagree you're especially pissed on how I called BS on this idea.
I'm very active in this fight out here and we vote no on all the BS. I voted no on the recall, I vote against all the costly feel good measures and propositions, I vote against the libtards they put up for office. I'm not getting what I vote for. I call, write, email, call, write, email....
This idea is BS since it doesn't matter to the libtards out here. They'd see it as a victory. It is all nice to say boycott CA and all firearms supply companies that do business in this state. It is a massively stupid idea that will backfire.
tfr270 shows the overly defensive reaction of a person who knows his state is FUBAR in Taxes, crime, illegal immigration, cost of living and gun rights.
But takes it personally when any one ELSE says it. ;D
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Hey Peg, You don't see what we're doing out here. Rant all you like...You're just pissed that somone disagrees with this and is calling BS on it. And since I'm a tactless a=hole when I disagree you're especially pissed on how I called BS on this idea.
I'm very active in this fight out here and we vote no on all the BS. I voted no on the recall, I vote against all the costly feel good measures and propositions, I vote against the libtards they put up for office. I'm not getting what I vote for. I call, write, email, call, write, email....
This idea is BS since it doesn't matter to the libtards out here. They'd see it as a victory. It is all nice to say boycott CA and all firearms supply companies that do business in this state. It is a massively stupid idea that will backfire.
1. I'm not pissed that someone disagrees with me.
2. You're entitled to your opinion and your say.......and I respect that.........especially since you chose to live there..... but as someone else has pointed out, many of the absurd ideas and laws that are allowed to be foisted upon the subjects of California, by the subjects of California, eventually spread like a disease to the rest of the nation.......and that bothers some of us on here.
3. No reason to call people idiots for thinking something different.
4. You keep fighting the good fight, and doing what you're doing........it seems to be workin' really well for ya. ;)
5. I'm done.
Peace.
8)
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I live in this F-ed state and now i have to put up with this shit. I dont see how showing my ID to purchase ammo is going to help reduce crime. Thankfully I have a good stock pile of ammo and dont see myelf getting carded much. Thank GOD the 50rnd limit was struck down. The only thing Im not clear about is rifle ammo affected by the same law. Commiefornia SUCKS ARSE.
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Hell, maybe all of us Gunowners should move to one single state (ex: Montana, Wyoming, Utah) and tell the rest of them to go to hell. We could have our own little version of Switzerland! EVERYBODY would be armed to the teeth! ;D
Its my fantasy, leave me alone with it for a couple of minutes at least. lol
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That a great idea, and im all for getting the hell out of Commiefornia right now. >:(
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Hell, maybe all of us Gunowners should move to one single state (ex: Montana, Wyoming, Utah) and tell the rest of them to go to hell. We could have our own little version of Switzerland! EVERYBODY would be armed to the teeth! ;D
Its my fantasy, leave me alone with it for a couple of minutes at least. lol
Can we make it Florida or Texas? The weather and fishing are a lot better.
FQ13 who is also dreaming for a few minutes
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Can we make it Florida or Texas? The weather and fishing are a lot better.
FQ13 who is also dreaming for a few minutes
Better yet, let's kick all the liberals out and make California our state. Best weather in the world - we just have to mind the fires. Best ag state too. Any crop in the world can be grown in CA. The liberals can be pushed into Mexico with the same people they want to give amnesty to - and they already have a form of socialized medicine.
Schwarzenegger is really showing his RINO colors. He signed a bill setting aside a day to honor Harvey Milk. The same bill he vetoed last year.