The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on October 15, 2009, 01:08:17 PM
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http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/64262272.html
Two powerful Milwaukee leaders on Wednesday floated the idea of allowing concealed-carry gun permits in Wisconsin as part of a larger package of gun law reforms - marking a departure with Mayor Tom Barrett on the hot issue.
Police Chief Edward Flynn and District Attorney John Chisholm said allowing concealed-carry weapon permits must be coupled with other changes such as requiring background checks on all gun purchases in Wisconsin. Currently, only federally licensed gun stores have to do such checks in the state.
Allowing concealed-carry permits has long been a top priority for gun-rights advocates. Conversely, gun-control advocates have pushed hard for the background checks to close the so-called gun show loophole.
"If we are going to have substantial, meaningful reform at some point these twin pillars of desire have to be addressed," Chisholm said. "This is the time to raise this. Let's get it out in the open and cut a deal."
Appearing before a Common Council Public Safety Committee hearing, Chisholm and Flynn said that, if concealed carry were allowed, there should be a tough permit process and anyone caught carrying a concealed gun without a permit would face a felony.
Under current law, carrying a concealed weapon is a misdemeanor in Wisconsin. Unlike other crimes, it never becomes a felony, no matter how many times a criminal is charged with it.
Wisconsin is one of only two states that do not allow residents to obtain concealed-carry gun permits. The Legislature has passed bills allowing such permits, but Gov. Jim Doyle has vetoed them.
Barrett continues to be an opponent of concealed carry, said his chief of staff, Patrick Curley. The mayor met with Flynn and Chisholm on the issue, but he hasn't been convinced to change his position, Curley said.
"The mayor told them, 'Today, I am against it but I am telling you keep talking to me about it,' " he said.
Barrett is pushing a more modest package of gun reforms - to make the second offense of carrying a concealed weapon a felony, require felons to stay 1,000 feet from gun stores, make it a crime not to report a stolen gun and make it a felony for someone to "straw buy" a gun, which means to purchase a gun for a felon.
Barrett still supports requiring background checks on all gun sales in Wisconsin, but the mayor has crafted a package with an eye toward getting something done, Curley said.
"What we don't want to do is to lose the chance to do anything," Curley said.
Flynn suggested other reforms including doubling the sales tax on certain guns and using the revenue to prevent gun violence. The chief also called for mandatory minimum sentences for certain gun offenses.
"It should not be a crap shoot as to whether or not they face jail time for carrying deadly weapons on the streets of Milwaukee," the chief said.
Chisholm differed with Flynn on mandatory minimums, saying there is enough exposure for criminals, especially with the option of taking gun cases into federal court.
Adam Allan, owner Badger Guns, which has been under fire by Flynn and Chisholm for its high number of crime-gun sales, also appeared at the hearing. He said he supported the proposed law changes and vowed to look for ways to avoid selling guns that end up being used by criminals.
Badger and its predecessor, Badger Outdoors, have accounted for about a third of all crime guns recovered by Milwaukee police for several years. Guns from the store were used to shoot each of the six Milwaukee police officers wounded in the past two years.
"There is a lot more that needs to be done both on our side and their side," said Allan, 27, who took over the West Milwaukee gun shop two years ago.
Flynn ordered an undercover mission after two officers were shot in the head in June with a gun bought at Badger by a straw buyer.
After the officer shooting, Allan said, he banned anyone younger than 21 from entering the store and started checking the parking lot to see if people were waiting in the car - a sign of straw buying.
Despite those changes, Milwaukee officers found felons were going freely into Badger, and some were taking shooting practice on the store's range. Allan used a large sign in front of his store to accuse Milwaukee police of being racist, saying officers were pulling over customers based on race. Flynn denied that.
Taking a suggestion from Flynn, Allan said he now is checking criminal histories of anyone using his range and requiring them to sign an affidavit swearing they are not a felon. That list will be open to law enforcement, he said.
He also said he randomly would check criminal histories of people coming into his store - reviving a practice by the former owner, Mick Beatovic. But Allan accused Beatovic of using race as a reason to check someone's background.
Allan said his shop had been used as a scapegoat by police and the media.
"Chief Flynn has aggressively attacked Badger Guns in recent weeks with help of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel," Allan said. "An awful lot of what he has said is incorrect."
Allan said his employees do a lot to prevent illegal sales. Flynn said Allan should talk to other gun shops that don't sell as many crime guns to figure out how they do it.
Allan said he has run Badger Guns since November 2007. Allan is the son of one of the former owners and worked at that store, Badger Outdoors, for years.
Allan said one reason he sells so many guns that end up being used by criminals is that he is so close to Milwaukee.
"I just don't buy that," said Ald. Bob Donovan, noting there is another gun shop a couple of miles away that has far fewer crime-gun traces. "What I am interested in hearing is any effort on your part to change the way you do business. For whatever reason, there are a hell of a lot of illegal guns that can be traced back" to Badger.
Allan also said he would be willing to meet with Chisholm, Flynn and others to discuss sale practices at his store. Allan insisted he has never been invited to meet with the officials. However, Barrett said previously that Allan didn't show last year when he was invited to a meeting with top leaders.
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Good luck, Hope you get it this time.
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Long over due!!
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Really hope it works out well.
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Really hope it works out well.
Oh MY GOD !!! There will be blood in the streets, every fender bender will turn into the "OK Corral". It'll be.....
Oh, wait. That hasn't happened in ANY of the other 48 states that have Concealed Carry has it ?
Well, unless Cheeseheads are more prone to crime and stupidity than the rest of the population it should be OK.
The only reason for your Gov. to veto it is if he thinks you ARE dumber and more violent than the rest of the country.
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Oh MY GOD !!! There will be blood in the streets, every fender bender will turn into the "OK Corral". It'll be.....
Oh, wait. That hasn't happened in ANY of the other 48 states that have Concealed Carry has it ?
Well, unless Minnesotans are more prone to crime and stupidity than the rest of the population it should be OK.
The only reason for your Gov. to veto it is if he thinks you ARE dumber and more violent than the rest of the country.
Well, you do have to watch those Minnesotans....... :o
I hope you didn't thing I was being blase' about it, Tom, by my wording.
By saying "I hope it works out well," I was trying to impress that I hope it passes, and people are allowed to pursue their rights.
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Well, you do have to watch those Minnesotans....... :o
I hope you didn't thing I was being blase' about it, Tom, by my wording.
By saying "I hope it works out well," I was trying to impress that I hope it passes, and people are allowed to pursue their rights.
Not at all Peg, my first post was along the same lines.
I just wanted to belabor the failed arguments of the elite and highlight their TRUE opinion of the people who pay their way.
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Today's been one of those days where I've been slipping on every step. ;)
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No NO NO!!!!
WI CCW will be tied to all sorts of illegal and draconian powers, such as no private sales without a background check and a state registration. This is just the smarmy PD Chief's way of dangling a very small carrot in front of a very large whip. And getting a foot in the door for door-to-door confiscation down the road.
No shrug.
No f..king compromises. Not now. Not any more - ever!!!!
I hope WI gets CCW - but not at this cost.
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Maybe I should read the proposal again with a magnifying glass, but at first blush it sure looks reasonable to me. I don't see gun-grabbing code words or registration strings in there at all, but rather a good-faith effort to come up with something everyone can live with. Rather bold, actually, considering it's Wisconsin, my home state.
The only restriction I would add is that all CCW licenses are temporarily null and void on days when the Packers play the Viqueens. ;D
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Maybe I should read the proposal again with a magnifying glass, but at first blush it sure looks reasonable to me. I don't see gun-grabbing code words or registration strings in there at all, but rather a good-faith effort to come up with something everyone can live with. Rather bold, actually, considering it's Wisconsin, my home state.
The only restriction I would add is that all CCW licenses are temporarily null and void on days when the Packers play the Viqueens. ;D
FTA: "Two powerful Milwaukee leaders on Wednesday floated the idea of allowing concealed-carry gun permits in Wisconsin as part of a larger package of gun law reforms - marking a departure with Mayor Tom Barrett on the hot issue.
Police Chief Edward Flynn and District Attorney John Chisholm said allowing concealed-carry weapon permits must be coupled with other changes such as requiring background checks on all gun purchases in Wisconsin. Currently, only federally licensed gun stores have to do such checks in the state."
I read the registration piece in another article about some of the "reforms" they want imposed.
There are too many successful CCW programs in the other 48 states, they do not need to be inventing all sort of compromise rules and regs to "allow" CCW. Shall Issue to any legal recipient. Period. No other new rules.
No Shrugs!
No Compromises!!!
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I really need to get out of the basement more often or replace my tin foil hat. I didn't hear anything about this. Thanks for the heads up ericire12. And by the way dam Bret and those Viqueens
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With 48 other states doing it they should be able to just pick the degree of BS they want, strict ? Pick from NJ, Ca, or Ma.
At the other end, there are choices between Vt./ Alaska with no regulation, or NH and other states with the bare minimum that is required.
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FTA: "Two powerful Milwaukee leaders on Wednesday floated the idea of allowing concealed-carry gun permits in Wisconsin as part of a larger package of gun law reforms - marking a departure with Mayor Tom Barrett on the hot issue.
Police Chief Edward Flynn and District Attorney John Chisholm said allowing concealed-carry weapon permits must be coupled with other changes such as requiring background checks on all gun purchases in Wisconsin. Currently, only federally licensed gun stores have to do such checks in the state."
We've had background checks in Virginia about 15 years now. The dealer simply calls a State Police number, gives them your name and SSN, you wait 10 or 15 minutes - sometimes longer at shows, depending on volume - and, if they find no record of felonies, commitment for mental illness or restraining orders for domestic violence, you walk out with your gun. Big deal.
Virginia also has a one-gun-per-month restriction, which is waived for buyers who have CCW permits.
I was little leery at first, because I'd prefer no govt. entity have a record anywhere of guns that I own, but I've learned to live with that.
No compromise? C'mon, bud! We're all a compromise - a genetic compromise of our mom and dad.
Shrug.
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If you pass the Federal NICS check, what is the point of the state one ?
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If you pass the Federal NICS check, what is the point of the state one ?
Tom - You expect the govt. to make sense? ;D
Dunno about other states, but in Virginia, we had the "instant background check" in operation long before the feds ever got around to thinking about it. Virginia's works so well, and as you have to be a resident in order to buy a firearm, the powers that be evidently have agreed that the State Police check is enuf.
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I've been a CCW permit holder for 20 years.
I just renewed my permit for the fourth time (done every 5 years) and over the twenty years not much has changed in Georgia's process, however it does vary by county and my county has always been 'by the book' and relatively painless.
Two things have changed in the process since 5 years ago at my last renewal. One is an extra form that has to be filled out and sent to the sheriff for a signature. If he does not sign it, he must show a legal and just cause for not signing, and he only has 48 hours to sign and return to the Probate court. The other change is electronic fingerprinting. My first license required the old-style fingerprint card to be done at the sheriff's office. It never had to be re-done until this year because they are updating to an electronic database. All I had to do was go down to city hall and let them scan my prints and forward to the GBI for the background check.
The cost went up considerably since last time, but what the heck. Probate court fee went up from $15 to $16 and the GBI background check fee went from $35 to $53.
Even with the extra things that had to be filled out and done, it took less than an hour, start to finish (including the trip down to city hall), and I got my license in the mail 7 days later, instead of the usual 4-6 weeks, thanks to the new Ga time limit regulations passed last year.
Maybe Wisconsin legislators can get their heads screwed on right and get something done.
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If you pass the Federal NICS check, what is the point of the state one ?
I read that as private transfers needing a background check as well ("... requiring background checks on all gun purchases in Wisconsin. Currently, only federally licensed gun stores have to do such checks in the state."). I did not pick up a state on in there, but I could be wrong. Either way, I stick with the going trend on here that there be no added restrictions or other anti BS.
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Crap
That makes us Illinoisans the last state to puill our collective head fromthe dark stinky spot. Is there anything my state does right ???
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Crap
That makes us Illinoisans the last state to puill our collective head fromthe dark stinky spot. Is there anything my state does right ???
Not since Ditka.
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Crap
That makes us Illinoisans the last state to puill our collective head fromthe dark stinky spot. Is there anything my state does right ???
At one time I would have said John Deere.....but now, not so much. ;)
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Crap
That makes us Illinoisans the last state to puill our collective head fromthe dark stinky spot. Is there anything my state does right ???
Corn ?
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Corn ?
I think Iowa's got 'em beat. ;D