The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: ericire12 on October 15, 2009, 01:12:10 PM
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http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/HG_point_200911/
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The best way to go is having BOTH abilities .
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The best way to go is having BOTH abilities .
+1
I have always though it was important to practice shooting when you can't use the sights.
If you have the time to use the sights, then by all means, use them....but that is not always the case when caught off guard or at odd angles and positions.
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+1
I have always though it was important to practice shooting when you can't use the sights.
If you have the time to use the sights, then by all means, use them....but that is not always the case when caught off guard or at odd angles and positions.
And don't forget about "pucker" factor.
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(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c149/IRMacGuyver/Ign/dr-evil-laser1-1.jpg)
;)
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The dog ate my sights. Now I can't tell if I'm aiming or pointing. ;D
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I've watched you shoot, Don.... and you understand the Balance of Speed & Precision!
http://www.blauertacticalusa.com/blog/?p=1666 (http://www.blauertacticalusa.com/blog/?p=1666)
-RJP
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I've watched you shoot, Don.... and you understand the Balance of Speed & Precision!
http://www.blauertacticalusa.com/blog/?p=1666 (http://www.blauertacticalusa.com/blog/?p=1666)
-RJP
That is a hell of a compliment.
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That is a hell of a compliment.
Not really Eric. Rob said he UNDERSTOOD them, not that he applied them. ;D
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The answer is practice, know your equipment (not just gun, but all equipment and clothing), and practice more. If you do this you can live by the words of Rob Leatham, "Sights are highly over rated."
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One of the problems people have with the concept of point shooting is that they cant do it. They cant do it because they cant practice it. They cant practice it because they cannot shoot one handed for any period of time because the gun they use is wrong for them. Ergonomics are the most important thing . Weak wrists and high bore axis dont work. Largs grips and small hands dont either. Too many people choose the wrong caliber. Ego instead of utility.
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Again guys..... be careful with terminology. "point shooting" means different things to different people.
For example, I think "unsighted fire", but some people think "hip shooting".
When I read 2How's post, it reminds me that many people who think they can "shoot well" have horrible habits, grip and posture. But, because you can hold a gun upside down in your wrong hand and pull the trigger with your pinky finger and still hit a bullseye when you use your sights, they don't realize how bad their pistol skills are until they are put into a dynamic context.
I was painfully watching another instructor "work" with a group of students a couple of months ago who exemplified this. Their shooting was horrid, but they had decent groups on the target. Half couldn't reload their guns, one kept forgetting to decock hers, another kept crossing her weak side thumb over behind the slide. One of the group was a really squared away shooter and a few were in between. At the end of the session, they were all told they did a great job and I honestly think most of them felt like they were "prepared" to defend themselves with their guns. The mechanical dependence on sights to create decent looking target groups that create false confidence is one of the sins of "sighted fire always" thinking.
Starting shooters with keeping both eyes open, focused on the target (8" circle at 10' works well) is a much better way to develop good shooting habits. These intuitive shooting habits (good grip, good extension, good body position, good trigger control, good recoil management) can then be added to to increase the capability for precision by adding skill sets such as Sight Alignment and Sight Picture.
-RJP
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If anyone is ever unfortunate enough to have a gun fight, and falls into the high statistic catagory of the 21 foot rule. You will probably be shooting from retention. You wont start from low ready,or your favorite bulls eye wham bang super isoceles modified weaver stance. Rob is correct, in its essence point shooting is unsighted fire (no sights). Recognition of agression is highly recommended or you will be behind in the "loop. Until you at least come back even you will be point shooting, on the run most likely. It would be a good idea to train for that. ;D
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Considering that so many of us on here are in the "Over 40" category, and the majority of crimes are committed by "Young Males". We should be thinking about reacting from that position half way between getting shoved/hit, and landing on our butts.
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Not really Eric. Rob said he UNDERSTOOD them, not that he applied them. ;D
You are right Tom. You must understand the concept and "get it" before you "do it".
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Considering that so many of us on here are in the "Over 40" category, and the majority of crimes are committed by "Young Males". We should be thinking about reacting from that position half way between getting shoved/hit, and landing on our butts.
Thats another thread, but youre 100% right. you need a good "fence" and a good "flinch" you tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4a3dscMbjY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTEDjz5W-iI
these two techniques are very good.
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Try to stay on "point" guys... Yes, contact shooting and having responses that aren't about the gun... especially if you aren't athletic, alert and coordinated enough to get your gun out before the BG is within 2 arms reach (which is very likely for ALL OF US)... but this thread is about Sighted & Unsighted fire.
-RJP
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Try to stay on "point" guys... Yes, contact shooting and having responses that aren't about the gun... especially if you aren't athletic, alert and coordinated enough to get your gun out before the BG is within 2 arms reach (which is very likely for ALL OF US)... but this thread is about Sighted & Unsighted fire.
-RJP
Thread police!
*It was a joke, Rob. Please dont kill me in my sleep.
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Cut the shit guys. Blauer and Pincus. I think these guys are the best thing since Batman and Robin. Both of them now how to shoot, fight, utilize resources that surround them. The Euphomology of Warrior should encapsolate them.
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Cut the shit guys. Blauer and Pincus. I think these guys are the best thing since Batman and Robin. Both of them now how to shoot, fight, utilize resources that surround them. The Euphomology of Warrior should encapsolate them.
I would beg to differ, My friends Tom Kohl and matt Temkin are the best . Roger Phillips also has some skills. So be carefull who you call out.
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My dad can beat up your dad.