The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: Rob Pincus on October 17, 2009, 04:43:16 AM

Title: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Rob Pincus on October 17, 2009, 04:43:16 AM
I received word last night via phone call that a friend's home had been invaded at gun point by 3 men. He had just left the house and his family was at home. They are all safe now.  Here is the email (with minor editing for identity's sake) that he sent out in the middle of the night to a small list of friends in this industry. We all preach awareness and trusting your brain's built in early warning system.... in fact, we train and discuss in order to develop more intuitive ways to recognize attacks and respond to them. Sometimes, when provided with all the pre contact cues, we still fail to act on them for reasons of self-doubt, complacency, peer pressure, convenience or any other number of things. I know that I have been guilty of it as well.... too often. Learn from this.

"My family is safe. No one was physically harmed.

I left my home for an appointment and noticed 3 black males walking up the street - my alarms went off and I watched them continue by my house. I closed the garage, and I had a flash of an attack and dismissed it (with what I do I'm always visualizing scenarios). I watched them continue past the house walking towards the highway - again my alarms went off and I thought to call the cops...then I said to myself, what am I going to say...hi I live in a wealthy area and 3 black guys are walking on the street...if you get here in about 30 seconds, they'll be walking north. I f'n dismissed it thinking, I'm 'profiling' bottom line: I failed gavin debecker 101. [I have studied his book "Gift of Fear" which explains responding] around instincts and intuition and ignored my own.

1-minute after I left my house 3 black males forced their way into my home at gunpoint. My son who was upstairs saw what was happening grabbed the phone and called 9-11. They forced my family into a closet and then began rifling thru drawers...they pulled [my wife] out of the room demanding money she lead them downstairs to her purse she gave them her wallet but thank god for [my son], cops were en route and within minutes sirens were screaming towards my home.

They bolted. They got her wallet and phone. 7 minutes after I left she called me screaming for help.

I still can't believe this. I'm sitting in a hotel room looking at my family. Alive, physically safe. Messed up emotionally.

I thought this was opportunistic - three punks see man of house leave in hummer, wife home, easy target and roll in - we have since learned there was a 4th guy in a car, that my house was targeted - one of the guys works for a car cleaning service that does house visits and they washed [my wife's] car last week.

They caught one of the dirt bags, a 17 year old punk who has starting singing to the cops and they've ID 2 of the other three at this time.

We also learned the 3 other people we know had their cars washed (same company) and were all burgled within days...

I don't know if they were coming in whether i was there or not and I just happened to surprise them when I left or if they waited for me to leave. Gun, daylight, Friday, corner house...they had no way to know I was late for an appointment - I think I left and they were already coming in.

A lot is going through my mind right now. I oscillate from wanting to puke and choking backs tears looking at my wife & kids sleeping thinking about how different this evening could've been.

All that to say...WTF?

Our lives have changed.

Stay safe my friends.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Pathfinder on October 17, 2009, 04:59:28 AM
Damn, that is one sobering lesson, Rob. Glad everyone is physically OK, I can't imagine how the begin rebuilding emotionally afer that. Good presence of mind for the son, though. let's hope the scumbags get put away for a long time. Probably won't happen as these days it seem burglars don't get much time or get early released.

Thanks for the object lesson, point noted.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 17, 2009, 07:47:51 AM

Definately a lesson to do things most of us don't do regularly, even though we know we should. Things like turning on the alarm while we are at home, carrying a cell in our pockets, maybe a gun. I don't carry in the house unless I've just come home and forgotten to take it off, which happens a lot. It also reminds us that every stranger you invite into your house is a potential security risk, A yard guy, a contractor, a car detailer. Maybe its best to be selective about this. Take your car to the car wash, or one of the guys who do it at mall while you shop (or just DIY), Choose small businesses rather than big companies for plumbers and pressure cleaners and exterminators who have worked for friends before. Don't use the valet parking (your address and keys in their hands). Just stuff to consider.
FQ13
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Hazcat on October 17, 2009, 08:38:12 AM
I live in a nothin' special, little, lower middle class type neighborhood. Brosometal can tell ya bout it.

BUT my doors are always locked and I am always armed.  I have a gun stashed near the front door (and others around the house).  My son will not answer the door until he looks over his shoulder and sees me standing there at the ready.  He also always has a fire arm within reach.

Paranoid or prudent?  I vote prudent.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 17, 2009, 08:43:53 AM
I live in a nothin' special, little, lower middle class type neighborhood. Brosometal can tell ya bout it.

BUT my doors are always locked and I am always armed.  I have a gun stashed near the front door (and others around the house).  My son will not answer the door until he looks over his shoulder and sees me standing there at the ready.  He also always has a fire arm within reach.

Paranoid or prudent?  I vote prudent.

Prudent ... Wise ... Good Parenting ... Prepared ... ETC!!!!
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: cooptire on October 17, 2009, 10:55:40 AM
Holy Cow!!!

I am sincerely glad that no one in his family was injured, at least physically. One of the scariest things that I can possibly imagine and something I try to not to get complacent about. It is HARD to not be, especially when someone hasn't had a lot of problems in the past. I think Rob says it right when he says to trust your instincts.



Scary.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: saltydogbk on October 17, 2009, 11:06:33 AM
Glad everyone is okay.  What a wake up call.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 17, 2009, 11:14:13 AM
 Paranoid or prudent ?
If you are paranoid and wrong, you are safe with effort and funds tied up in your security.
If you are trusting and wrong you are a victim, possibly a DEAD victim.
Which do you choose ?
(I know the answer here  ;D it's a thought for the GENERAL PUBLIC  )
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: shooter32 on October 17, 2009, 11:28:58 AM
Thanks for the post Rob!

+1 Trust your instincts!
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: JSC3ATLCSO on October 17, 2009, 11:37:18 AM
Paranoid or prudent ?
If you are paranoid and wrong, you are safe with effort and funds tied up in your security.
If you are trusting and wrong you are a victim, possibly a DEAD victim.
Which do you choose ?
(I know the answer here  ;D it's a thought for the GENERAL PUBLIC  )

I haven't seen this before.. But I'm stealing it now.  Possibly making it a bumper sticker. 
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 17, 2009, 11:41:45 AM
 I just rephrased the preparedness question.
Why do you walk around with a concealed pistol ?
The same reason YOU drive around with a spare tire in your trunk.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: m25operator on October 17, 2009, 01:12:31 PM
Wow Rob, glad all are ok, but shaken. Trust your instincts, hell yes.

There have been more than a few times as I have left for work, that there is a strange car with someone sitting in it near my home. I will usually call my wife and tell her to be prepared just in case, more than once I have made a circle and cruised back by, written the plate and description down.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 18, 2009, 10:06:01 AM
Rob,

Thank you for sharing this.  I have not known how to respond, but I have put in a lot of windshield time the last 24 hours which gives me time to think.

The reminder in this story is an important one, but I did not realize how important until I realized the group that is involved and sharing.  I'm assuming that anyone that has you on his short list of close friends is well aware if not well trained in how to handle life.  I also assume that this man's family is well drilled in proper conduct (demonstrated by son's actions).

If this can happen in your circle, how vulnerable are those of us that are learning but still far short, and worse, what of the ostriches of society?

Thanks again!
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Rob Pincus on October 18, 2009, 10:31:09 AM
m58,

What you say is interesting... this guy is definitely on my short list of who I would call if the roles were reversed.  I spent most of the day with the family yesterday and they are doing well... considering.

3 of 4 suspects have been arrested, a couple of items have been recovered and the house has been cleaned up.

Plans for a perimeter upgrade and some changes in behavior are well underway... hopefully, they are never needed, but they are definitely an important part of coping with the aftermath and feeling more comfortable back in the house.

-RJP
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: long762range on October 18, 2009, 12:54:28 PM
If I do not know a person in my neighborhood I openly take their picture.  You would be surprized how quickly some people leave when they see a camera.  If I do not have a camera handy I use my cell phone to take their picture. 
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Ichiban on October 18, 2009, 02:37:12 PM
Such incidents leave the victims feeling violated and fearful for some time.  I am glad all are safe and I hope they can work past this.  Hopefully some of the neighbors will see this as a wake-up call as well.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 18, 2009, 02:42:18 PM
If I do not know a person in my neighborhood I openly take their picture.  You would be surprized how quickly some people leave when they see a camera.  If I do not have a camera handy I use my cell phone to take their picture.  

I have been working 2nd shift for about 20 years. Every time I start a new job of course it involves a new route home. I ALWAYS, get stopped once in the first 30 days (usually 2 weeks ) for some BS like "crossing the yellow line".
It's a very simple case of the cops doing more or less the same thing. They see an unfamiliar car late at night  repeatedly and want to know where it fits in. After that as long as I take that route I pass the same cops at the same times and places most nights and never get stopped again be cause I "belong", I have a place in the routine. I had a Cop in Hayward Ca. tell me so,(though I already understood it )
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 18, 2009, 02:57:35 PM
I have been working 2nd shift for about 20 years. Every time I start a new job of course it involves a new route home. I ALWAYS, get stopped once in the first 30 days (usually 2 weeks ) for some BS like "crossing the yellow line".
It's a very simple case of the cops doing more or less the same thing. They see an unfamiliar car late at night  repeatedly and want to know where it fits in. After that as long as I take that route I pass the same cops at the same times and places most nights and never get stopped again be cause I "belong", I have a place in the routine. I had a Cop in Hayward Ca. tell me so,(though I already understood it )
Its rule 101 of good police work, good intel gathering and just staying alive. Know what people are doing, when they do it, and where they do it. Be aware of any anomalies. I learned that a DIA summer camp (yes its real, a one week course for cadets who are considering intel). It sounds simple in retrospect, but most folks don't pay attention. Once you do, it does become ingrained habit. Why aren't the yard workers here? Is that car new? How far is it to my parking space etc.? Its a topic (situational awareness) we've discussed before, but it bares repeating. Which of these things shouldn't be here? You notice that, and you are miles ahead of most folks.
FQ13
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 18, 2009, 03:08:13 PM
   I used to have one car  that came from behind and passed me on the same straight every night. (About 10 minutes after I passed the car with only 1 headlight.  ;D  )
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 18, 2009, 03:18:55 PM
Its rule 101 of good police work, good intel gathering and just staying alive. Know what people are doing, when they do it, and where they do it. Be aware of any anomalies. I learned that a DIA summer camp (yes its real, a one week course for cadets who are considering intel). It sounds simple in retrospect, but most folks don't pay attention. Once you do, it does become ingrained habit. Why aren't the yard workers here? Is that car new? How far is it to my parking space etc.? Its a topic (situational awareness) we've discussed before, but it bares repeating. Which of these things shouldn't be here? You notice that, and you are miles ahead of most folks.
FQ13

FQ  ???

On this thread profiling a new car in the area is ok and good, but on the other thread it is bad  ???

You can't have it both ways!  Is it ok to single out Tom for his situation and not ok in Phoenix, is it bad for both, is it ok for both  ???

The best police work is sometimes going to involve acting on hunches, using deception and using profiling.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 18, 2009, 03:23:59 PM
 In short, Making an opportunity to ask "Who are you ? and why are you here ? " 
It actually did not offend me, or inconvenience me.,because I would have been doing the same thing.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 18, 2009, 03:38:27 PM
In short, Making an opportunity to ask "Who are you ? and why are you here ? " 
It actually did not offend me, or inconvenience me.,because I would have been doing the same thing.

Good attitude!

I think that the "good" citizens and visitors to Sheriff Joe's County feel the same way.  The complaints come from those getting caught and the bleeding hearts.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Timothy on October 18, 2009, 03:40:06 PM
Profiling is something that we all do, all the time, every day.  I don't have a problem with it, never have.  

The title of the thread is "Trust your Instincts", my instinct tells me that one group of people are of more concern than another.

Simple!  Where I live, a group of kids of one particular ethnic persuasion or another are going to raise a few eyebrows.  I'm sorry if that hurts their feelings.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: MikeBjerum on October 18, 2009, 03:44:28 PM
Profiling is something that we all do, all the time, every day.  I don't have a problem with it, never have.  

The title of the thread is "Trust your Instincts", my instinct tells me that one group of people are of more concern than another.

Simple!  Where I live, a group of kids of one particular ethnic persuasion or another are going to raise a few eyebrows.  I'm sorry if that hurts their feelings.

As long as they aren't fat, slightly beyond middle aged, Scandinavians it don't   ;)
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Timothy on October 18, 2009, 03:53:09 PM
As long as they aren't fat, slightly beyond middle aged, Scandinavians it don't   ;)

Oof Da....

I'm a turd (3rd) Norwegian......

 ;D
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: fightingquaker13 on October 18, 2009, 10:24:09 PM
FQ  ???

On this thread profiling a new car in the area is ok and good, but on the other thread it is bad  ???

You can't have it both ways!  Is it ok to single out Tom for his situation and not ok in Phoenix, is it bad for both, is it ok for both  ???

The best police work is sometimes going to involve acting on hunches, using deception and using profiling.
[/quote
Two points
One I wasn't talking about "profiling". I was simply talking about being aware of things that were out of place. this does not equal pulling over every black guy driving through a white neighborhood (or vice versa). Just being aware that something unusual is happening.
Second, there is difference between pulling folks over for driving while Mexican and pulling over a car that's cruising a neigborhood at two am. The difference is reasonable suspicion of individual wrong doing. Nice try M58, but no cigar.
FQ13  
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: philw on October 19, 2009, 04:23:41 AM
Wow   that is a bit too close to home mate


Well done Rob for helping out your mate 
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 19, 2009, 10:12:37 PM
First, glad the family came out OK physically and that they will hopefully shake off the emotional aspects.

Second, thanks for sharing, because as M58 pointed out, it shows that anyone, anywhere can become an instant victim.

Third, this just bolsters my decision to carry my weapon on my person in my home even further. I used to take my G27 out of the holster (most of the time) and leave it in my bedroom when at home.....that is until a few weeks ago when a stranger pulled up my drive in a running vehicle and asked my wife (out on the porch) for some gas....and then asked if her husband was home.

Home invasion is one of the top crimes in our area.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Ping on October 19, 2009, 10:47:59 PM
Rob, it impacts you differently when it is you or someone you know and/or care for. This is a critical dymanic scenario. Not an incident, but something that has taken place with someone we truly care about, ie scenario. I tried to convey this to you about feelings and instincts. There is something from the gut that tells you things are about to go to hell and the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Once you can realize that there is something more that can be figured out in the incidents. There is a element missing. I would like to find out that element. I think you do to!!!
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Sgt Z Squad on October 19, 2009, 11:51:53 PM
More than once my hackles have been raised on the job and for good reason. Ditto on the Subject title.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: bulldog75 on November 21, 2009, 08:15:13 PM
Trust that little voice. If you hunt like I do. I bet deer do not sit around and say you are paranoid, no they are alive because that little voice said bolt and they did, the ones that did not listen to that voice are in the freezer. 



I am a police officer and a soldier and alive this long because when you get that feeling of uneasy something is going on.

I went to a domestic on a monday morning at 9 a.m. and I got to the door and I felt uneasy and I could hear the screaming from inside and I stopped and stood to the side of the door and when I knocked it fell silent and then I knocked again and a woman came out screaming he has a gun. He was hiding behind the door with a shotgun and was waiting for me to come busting in. He was a former police officer too.
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: pioneer on December 16, 2009, 01:03:04 PM
I can't begin to tell you the number of times over the years, I've interviewed crime victims, who told me something like; "I thought something was suspicious about that guy, but I didn't want to offend him, or make him think I'm a racist.""

Or; "When I saw him (her) something just didn't seem right  I thought about going the other way, (or calling 9-1-1) but thought I was just being paranoid."

Many rape victims have told me when the suspect first approached and "...began hitting on me, I didn't want to be rude (or seem like a racist) so I went with him for just one drink." 

The Lord equipped all animal species with a built in ability to sense danger.  Hunters know what I'm talking about.  That sense is also included in the human species, but we have been conditioned over time to ignore them.  We were endowed with big brains and the ability to reason.  Over the centuries our reasoning and rationalizing ability has overpowered our ability to recognize our sense of danger and survival.  We have been conditioned to be "sensitive" and bullied into ignoring our sense of danger, at the risk of being labeled by the "thought police" as insensitive, or heaven forbid, profiling.   Political "correctness" and propaganda has placed us in danger, in more ways than just one. 

We all have the sense of detecting danger, which makes the little hairs stand up on the backs of our necks, similar to many other species of mammal.  We get signals such as adrenalin dumps which trigger the fight or flight response.  Humans need to be re-conditioned to listen to and recognize our instincts and not intellectualize or rationalize them away.  Train your loved ones in the natural senses of survival, and provide them with the tools to do something about it.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/police.png)
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: tombogan03884 on December 16, 2009, 01:12:48 PM
On Sept 10 - 01 I passed a car on Spaulding Turnpike here in NH, (It runs into I 95 ) I noticed that the body language of the 2 men in it was "off", They looked more like 2 lone individuals than 2 guys riding together and the Passenger look really PO'd .
I saw them the next day on CNN.
The passenger was Mohamed Atta, leader of the 9-11 hijackers.
Trust your instincts !
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: fightingquaker13 on December 16, 2009, 10:24:23 PM
+10 Pioneer
Same thing that happened to me in Charleston. Two black kids across a quiet street late at night. I'm told to be PC as a teacher, but they looked "off"'. I kept walking, they crossed to my side and it was obvious something was wrong so I grabbed some wall, and my Glock and waited. The expected happened and they took off when they saw the gun. If I'd just kept walking, thinking, "I'm being racist, its probably nothing", I'd have been SOL. Its not racism, its situational awareness. I will admit skin color is part of it, but its more body language, bearing, intention of movement and all those things you can't explain to a jury. That caveman side of your brain just knows. When it does, you'd best listen.
FQ13
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: JdePietro on December 17, 2009, 03:21:16 PM
Thank you for sharing, my thoughts and well wishes go out to you and yours.
Stay Frosty...
Title: Re: TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS
Post by: Bob F. on December 23, 2009, 09:38:40 PM
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS Trust your instincts!! That doesn't mean you have to open fire when the neck hairs go erect, but be ready!!

Thanks, Rob.
Stay safe.
Bob