The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Johnny Bravo on October 19, 2009, 12:07:44 PM
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Dallas police gunshot detection project hits snag
6:00 AM Mon, Oct 19, 2009 | Permalink | Yahoo! Buzz
Tanya Eiserer/Reporter Bio | E-mail | News tips
Plans to test a high-tech crime fighting tool in Dallas have hit an electrifying snag.
This spring, Dallas officials signed a $25,000 agreement with ShotSpotter, the leading maker of gunshot detection systems, to conduct a 90-day pilot project.
ShotSpotter sensors were slated to be installed on electrical poles in a one square mile area in North Oak Cliff neighborhood. If the pilot went well, Dallas city officials were looking to install the system in portions of the city.
But the project has hit an impasse over Oncor's requirement that ShotSpotter sign a "pole attachment agreement" before Oncor will allow any equipment to be installed on its poles. Shotspotter officials believe the contract would open them up to too much liability and have so far refused to sign it.
Gregg Rowland, senior vice president of sales and marketing, said this is the first time the company has encountered this problem.
"All of the other cities we're in, the utilities were willing to partner with us in the fight against crime," Rowland said.
Jeamy Molina, an Oncor company spokeswoman, described the contract as standard procedure, and a way to protect Oncor company property.
"This is something we do throughout our service area," Molina said. "It's not out of the ordinary. If something happens to the pole, they would be responsible."
Every year, Dallas averages about 16,000 random gunfire incidents. Some city council members have been enthusiastic about the idea of gunshot detection systems.
So far, ShotSpotter is in more than 45 cities and counties, including San Francisco, Washington, D.C. and New Orleans.
The system picks up the sonic waves emitted by gunshots, triangulating the location of the gunfire and notifying 911 operators to send police.
"We actually hear it, locate it, and establish that it was gunfire," Rowland said. "Within five seconds, we give the exact location of the gunfire and how many rounds were fired. We give them the knowledge of what they're facing."
He says the systems have been credited with saving more than 55 lives this year, and more than 500 over the last five years.
"We put the officers on scene quick enough so they would call for aid," Rowland said.
The system, which costs about $250,000 per square mile, has also been credited with reducing violent crime, random gunfire, helping police make arrests and helping with prosecution.
ShotSpotter officials had never before agreed to even conduct a pilot project, but they agreed to do so because they've had a hard time breaking into the Texas market due to a prior Dallas experience.
In 1996, a different gunshot detection system was installed in Oak Cliff for two months as part of a pilot study. Dallas officials were not impressed with it at all.
"It was a complete disaster," Rowland said. "Everybody in Texas is skeptical about this system. We don't have these kinds of challenges in other states. We know its' going to work well for them, and they're going be impressed with the technology. We really want to get the system installed."
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BIG BROTHER IS LISTENING
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This is a stupid venture..... If you want to solve problems (crime) you have to come up with solutions that are proactive, not reactive. Are there not any better ideas about how to spend a big honking pile of money?
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This technology was first used in Sarajevo where they had a problem with Serb snipers. The sensors would triangulate the position of the shot while computers would aim a weapon at the source .
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Chicago has a system but I do not know the vendor. Rank and file officers think it's worthless but management seems to think it's wonderful.
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People wouldn't just stand in one spot waiting for the police to arrest them. They would run away after the shooting. This solves nothing IMHO.
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People wouldn't just stand in one spot waiting for the police to arrest them. They would run away after the shooting. This solves nothing IMHO.
Criminals run from the cops!!?!?!?!?! Where in the world did you EVER get that perverse idea? Of course the perp is going to just stand there and wait for the cops after he just gunned down a rival gang member and 4 innocent bystanders including 2 kids.
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Criminals run from the cops!!?!?!?!?! Where in the world did you EVER get that perverse idea? Of course the perp is going to just stand there and wait for the cops after he just gunned down a rival gang member and 4 innocent bystanders including 2 kids.
He can spend the time picking up his "microstamped" casings.
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This is a stupid venture..... If you want to solve problems (crime) you have to come up with solutions that are proactive, not reactive. Are there not any better ideas about how to spend a big honking pile of money?
That's Dallas politics for you. The city councel is a mess; a political racial mess. Dallas could have been the shining star of the southwest. I could go on and on about this. I bet m25 has an opinion on this.
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So if I go in the street and light a bunch of firecrackers, not the little ones, like the M-80's, etc,.... these sensors can differentiate fireworks from gunfire????
I don;t know, just thinking that bunch of false calls could go out around the 4th of July, New Year, Memorial Day, etc,....
???
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The sensors probably get picked off by kids with pellet rifles and sling shots.
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So if I go in the street and light a bunch of firecrackers, not the little ones, like the M-80's, etc,.... these sensors can differentiate fireworks from gunfire????
I don;t know, just thinking that bunch of false calls could go out around the 4th of July, New Year, Memorial Day, etc,....
???
The sensors probably get picked off by kids with pellet rifles and sling shots.
I would also bet that it wont work for subsonic ammo.
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The sensors probably get picked off by kids with pellet rifles and sling shots.
I believe many years ago some LEOs in Texas installed automatic speed ticketing devices (like red-light cameras) on some of the more deserted highways. Seems the project was scrapped cause someone kept shooting the equipment. And I think 12guage was the caliber of choice, as it's harder to trace.
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I would also bet that it wont work for subsonic ammo.
It's the muzzle report not the ballistic crack that they pick up. It won't work on a suppressed weapon .
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I believe many years ago some LEOs in Texas installed automatic speed ticketing devices (like red-light cameras) on some of the more deserted highways. Seems the project was scrapped cause someone kept shooting the equipment. And I think 12guage was the caliber of choice, as it's harder to trace.
Ding ding ding!
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Every year, Dallas averages about 16,000 random gunfire incidents. Some city council members have been enthusiastic about the idea of gunshot detection systems
16,000 incidents? A year? That's nearly 44 a day. I doubt there are that many total shots fired per year.
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7,000 on Cinco de Mayo, 2,000 on 4 July and another 7,000 on New years.
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I wonder if the system can tell the difference between gunshots and fireworks. ???
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I don't think so.