The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on October 25, 2009, 08:02:11 AM
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Japan's major nuclear reactor manufacturers have begun developing small nuclear power systems for both developed and emerging countries, a report said on Saturday.
Toshiba Corp. is developing an ultra-compact reactor with an output of about 10,000 kilowatts and has started procedures for approval in the United States, the Nikkei business daily said.
The new reactor, the Toshiba 4S, is designed to minimise the need for monitoring and maintenance, with an automatic shutdown function to ensure safety in case of problems, the newspaper said.
Toshiba plans to market the reactor first in the United States, while foreseeing demand from emerging countries in Southeast Asia and Eastern Europe as well as in Africa, it said.
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd. has separately completed the concept design for a pressurised-water reactor with a power output of around 350,000 kilowatts, the Nikkei said.
Hitachi Ltd. also aims to develop a boiling-water reactor with a capacity of 400,000-600,000 kilowatts for use in Southeast Asia and other countries, it said.
Demand for nuclear power stations has been growing around the world. A total of 151 were under construction or slated for construction in 27 countries as of the end of 2008, it said.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.314f8f63df41800c448cd89e0a88dd31.331&show_article=1
OK, where are our resident engineers?....How many households would 10,000 KW run? I have a 15 kw gen set that will not quite run every thing in my house at the same time so maybe 50 watts per house?
10,000 / 50 = 200 ???
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I have a 10kw standby on my house that handles most everything ( lights,refrigerator,gas furnace motors) but not the A/C.
OTOH, what would the power demand be for a house in one of the "target" areas?
A small refrig, some lights, a TV and some fans?
That's not too far from what I saw in Western Europe 40 years ago.
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As well crafted as their many other products are, just thank God it's not the Chinese doing this!!! :o
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http://www.consumerspower.org/home_energy/billestimator.php
1 KWhr = 1000 watts/hour..... 100 watt bulb for 30 hours = 3000 wh = 3 kwh
I'm too lazy today Haz, use the calculator above...
Average home with the basics uses 1350 kwh/month / 30 days = 45 kwh/day / 24 hours = 1.875 kw per hour or 1875 watts every hour.
I think.... ;D
TW's the electrician, he'll be up soon!
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Tim,
I'm trying to see how much it would cost per household. Course we do not know the cost of one of these ultra compact nuke plants but we could take a guess (or actually maybe one of our engineers on here could).
Couple million per? Divided by number of homes it could service would tell us average cost per household.
Right now my electric averages over $300 a month! and my house is SMALL (1500 sq/ft) with a pool and a detached 'pool house' / office (324 sq/ft).
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Tim,
I'm trying to see how much it would cost per household. Course we do not know the cost of one of these ultra compact nuke plants but we could take a guess (or actually maybe one of our engineers on here could).
Couple million per? Divided by number of homes it could service would tell us average cost per household.
Right now my electric averages over $300 a month! and my house is SMALL (1500 sq/ft) with a pool and a detached 'pool house' / office (324 sq/ft).
DANG! That'll at least justify some solar panels on the roof!!!
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DANG! That'll at least justify some solar panels on the roof!!!
I'd love to if I could afford them!
BTW our rates are going UP because Progress Energy is thinking about building a new nuke plant sometime in the future so our rates have to go up so that the power company doesn't have to pay out of pocket while they are THINKING about it!
Try and 'splain that to me! >:(
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Haz, based on my calculations, if accurate, this 10KW reactor could power 5 average houses using normal day to day power.
Your electrical cost are much cheaper in FL than in the northeast. You have St Lucie, Turkey Pt and Crystal River. We have Pilgrim and it's normally not running at full power. Seabrook is much the same.
I pay nearly 200 bucks a month for an 800 sqft home with oil heat and normally two AC units in the warmer months. My electric is included in my rent now so I have no idea what it's going to cost.
These little fellas would be way more than the average homeowner could afford.
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Tim,
not 10 kw it's 10,000 kw.
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Tim,
not 10 kw it's 10,000 kw.
Sorry, missed that. 5000 homes....I still think the cost would be prohibitive for a small community. I worked in nuclear power for 10-12 years. A reactor needs constant attention, I know the Japanese are smart fellas but I would not get a warm fuzzy feeling with one of these "automatic" shutdown reactors in my back yard. Three Mile Island shut down automatically back in 1979 and still released several thousand curies of radiation before it was safe and never came back online.
"The cleanup of the damaged nuclear reactor system at TMI-2 took nearly 12 years and cost approximately US$973 million. The cleanup was uniquely challenging technically and radiologically. Plant surfaces had to be decontaminated. Water used and stored during the cleanup had to be processed. And about 100 tonnes of damaged uranium fuel had to be removed from the reactor vessel."
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Tim,
if 10kw will do 5 homes wouldn't 10,000kw do 5,000 homes?
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Yea, fixed it...
Anyway, back to the problem. When you do nuclear power in the US, it's controlled by the Nuclear Regulatory Commision, a bunch of goverment paid dimwits who are no better or smarter than the asshats in Congress.
They will figure out a way to f..k this up. Guaranteed.....it's one reason I got out of the industry, too many idiots, too many chiefs, too many moronic overpaid college boys.
The pay was outstanding but couldn't keep turning the other cheek IYKWIM.
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DANG! That'll at least justify some solar panels on the roof!!!
What is your price per kwh? If you are paying twenty-five cents or more per kwh (not including the "cost of providing service") you can justify solar panels. If you are paying twenty cents per kwh base plus an adder for higher demand times of day or over all usage you can justify going solar with a battery bank and charger. The battery bank is designed to be charged by low cost power during low cost periods and used during peak hours.
I know a family in Fresno, CA that built new five years ago and committed every square inch of practical roof space to solar. they are using and selling solar during the day and using grid during the dark hours. They are showing a very small profit from the project, but their base electric rate is twenty-four cents, and they sell excess for about fifteen cents.
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first 1000 kwh @ 5.569 cents plus fuel at 5.6 cents per kwh
above 1000 @ 6.569 and fuel at 6.6 per kwh
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first 1000 kwh @ 5.569 cents plus fuel at 5.6 cents per kwh
above 1000 @ 6.569 and fuel at 6.6 per kwh
What ever happened to cheaper by the dozen ?
In this thread I will probably confine myself to wisecracks. since I've been out of work and using more electricity my bill has gone up 20% to $25 a month.
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My last bill was $377.98! and I use propane to cook with. A/C set at 77.
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Tom, Here's your answer! http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599
They go for $199 on sale, you'd never pay an electricity bill again!
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A megawatt in Northern California can supply about 700 homes x 10 = 7000 homes for one of those little units.
disclaimer:
This is just an industry standard and the results you get will vary.
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I don't know about you guys, But here On the Oregon State University Campus we got a "1.1 MW TRIGA Mark II Pulsing Research Reactor" All the professors around here says it safe. The rumor on campus is that OSU reactor is protected by a SWAT team, even though i never seen them. So it gotta be safe...
I did take a chemistry lab where we used the reactor to irradiate an aluminum sample and measured the radioactive half life to determine the isotope. That day my lab group of 50 stood in the observation deck, while the professor stepped out a door with the sample and fishing pool in hand. the professor then walked across a cat walk and lowered the sample via fishing pole into the reactor. All at eh same time telling us the place is safe. As a demonstration of the passive safety system, the professor told us that they would pull 3 of the 4 control rods outs and eject the 4th with compress air. The reactor would red line and then shut it self off after reaching a certain temperature the materials began to absorb excess energy than emit it. But the professor didn't do the demo for us saying he would have to put it back.
here are some links to the OSU reactor
http://ne.oregonstate.edu/research/#facilities (http://ne.oregonstate.edu/research/#facilities)
http://radiationcenter.oregonstate.edu/ (http://radiationcenter.oregonstate.edu/)
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Just to clarify....
I didn't mean to sound as if I think nuclear energy is unsafe, quite the contrary.
The federal government is unsafe! They're irresponisble for not finding a repository for all the spent fuel collecting all over the country. It's a complete mess and we're not counting the stockpiles of plutonium and other products that are left over from the weapons industry.