The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: rojawe on October 25, 2009, 12:42:37 PM
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In a news report by the Associated Press in 2004, then, Illinois Senate Hopeful,
Obama, proclaims, in response to a comment that he was Kenyan born...
"So what... I'm running for the Illinois Senate not the Presidency..."
It seems all the world knows Obama doesn’t have a legitimate claim to the POTUS title...
Why can the American Public not see this?
Why is the small fact not brought out into the open?
Why is it now being ignored with a fervor?
Are there issues at hand that higher ups in the government don't want to admit?
What about those governmental policies that evidently have been ignored by even our justices and legislatures?
Is it just that government as a whole can't admit fault or failure?
Or is it that Obama himself has such a vise-grip hold on politicians they're runnin' scared?
What else is he or his administration lying about....?
As if we didn't already know.............
In another article, Modern Ghana published an AP report on Nov. 4, 2008, noted "A Congressional Quarterly (CQ) politics monitored on BBC put the Kenyan born American ahead of his rival, Senator McCain."
While I doubt that other nations or reporters from other nations care if our politicians are natural born or not, I think it's notworthy that they would mention the fact that Obama was "Kenyan Born"... They have or had no reason to say one way or the other...
Read it here:
http://www.modernghana.com/news2/189461/1/americans-decide-today-go-obama.html
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I have not done the research on this report, but I have read enough of both sides and tried to research enough of the reports that I know there is more than enough evidence to investigate, and I believe that an independent research group would find he does not meet the birth requirements to hold the office.
Why is this being swept aside so easily? Why does a party, and many of all other parties that were so quick to bring up Constitutional questions over the previous eight years not care today? Why is the candidate that insisted on and promised openness, honesty and transparity so quick to hide the facts or at least not answer the questions with the simple to produce evidence they have been asked for?
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at this point it really does not matter.
I know if I was him, I would not produce my Brith cert. Just to piss people off.
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at this point it really does not matter.
I know if I was him, I would not produce my Brith cert. Just to piss people off.
There's another reason as well.As long as he doesn't produce it, it keeps the issue alive. It makes critics look like conspiracy whack jobs.Kind of like thefolks who kept trying to accuse Hilary of killing Foster or Bill of heading a drug ring in Ar..This was a great way to distract them from the real issues of corruption and womanizing and perjury. It made them easy to dismiss. Folks would hear accusations against Clinton, roll their eyes and "Oh, its those people again." He probably has the records in his desk drawer and laughs at them as the more troubling issue of the Blagoyavitch connection and policy issues get hidden by this stuff. Hell, it might be true, but I still doubt that Hillary and McCain would have missed it if it were, particularly when they started to get scared.
FQ13
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at this point it really does not matter.
I know if I was him, I would not produce my Brith cert. Just to piss people off.
It does matter! If he is not rightfully in office and we ignore it we are throwing every bit of the Constitution out the window. We are willingly destroying everything done by the founding fathers and spitting on the graves and memories of every veteran that has served this nation, and giving the finger to every elected official that took the oath of office seriously and fulfilled that promise to the best of their abilities.
This is a question that deserves an answer, and to me every time he refuses to answer one way or another he is smugly saying that he doesn't give a damn about the citizen of this nation or those that gave to create it. Even if he is right and I am wrong he must answer this question or he does not deserve to be in that building.
I am not advocating, calling for or warning, but by creating "whack jobs and pissing them off" is one way to get lead poisoning while in office. What I am saying is that he is causing division within the nation that will push some over the edge to act in the wrong way.
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M58. lets just say for the sake of argument that some one finds proof that he is not a US citz... what happens now?
If a suit is filed, it will go to the SCOUS by defualt...
That much I'm sure we can all agree on.
So the real question is, would they remove him?
I really don't think they would. Even if they did, the "proof" would have to be rock solid.
Now its already been taken to court for him to produce it... that case will not see a rulling til 2012, if ever...
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I pretty much agree M58, but I just don't think its going to happen. As far as the whack jobs, this issue didn't create them. Left, right or other, this country has no shortage of them. This just gives something to focus on. They think that if only they find proof of this, it will be the silver bullet that will force him from office. I don't think it will happen, but even if it did, what have you got? Biden. Its like the liberals who were gung-ho about impeaching Bush, until they realized they'd get stuck with Cheney.
FQ13
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Cheney would have done a better job I think.
As to BO's place of birth, I have 2 items. First FQ is right about the Clinton campaign digging deep (McCain might as well have been part of BO's campaign ) The fact that she got to be Sec. State after all the nasty things She, her campaign, and Bill said about "The one" makes me believe she DOES have something on him.
Second, If there is nothing to it then why has he spent nearly 1 million dollars keeping all his records secret ?
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False
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/ap.asp
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I pretty much agree M58, but I just don't think its going to happen. As far as the whack jobs, this issue didn't create them. Left, right or other, this country has no shortage of them. This just gives something to focus on. They think that if only they find proof of this, it will be the silver bullet that will force him from office. I don't think it will happen, but even if it did, what have you got? Biden. Its like the liberals who were gung-ho about impeaching Bush, until they realized they'd get stuck with Cheney.
FQ13
FQ,
My understanding is that if this would ever be proven true it would nullify the election, and the Presidency would go to the Speaker of the House until another election could be run. If it would be in the next six months I could see a Nov. 2010 Presidential for a two year term. If it would go much longer I would see the courts saying the Speaker would govern until the 2012 election.
More important than who is in office is the principle of following the rules!
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FQ,
My understanding is that if this would ever be proven true it would nullify the election, and the Presidency would go to the Speaker of the House until another election could be run. If it would be in the next six months I could see a Nov. 2010 Presidential for a two year term. If it would go much longer I would see the courts saying the Speaker would govern until the 2012 election.
More important than who is in office is the principle of following the rules!
Nothing in the Constitution, the 25th ammendment or the Presidential Sucession Act says that. If the Presisent can't serve, the office goes to the Veep. There is no provision for a do over or a special election. Its BO or Biden till 2012, unless they get thrown out, then President Pelosi (BO looks better by the minute), or then President Hillary. Be careful what you wish for.
FQ13
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Nothing in the Constitution, the 25th ammendment or the Presisential Sucession Act says that. If the Presisent can't serve, the office goes to the Veep. There is no provision for a do over or a special election. Its BO or Biden till 2012, unless they get thrown out, then President Pelosi (BO looks better by the minute), or then President Hillary. Be carful what you wish for.
FQ13
You forget that Biden didn't run for President - Obama did, and if he did so illegally the election is nullified. This is the same reason that it wouldn't be just passed to the next highest vote getter. This is the same stance the U.S. takes with every country where we over see election results. If there is fraud by any one or any group it is a do over.
We can never tell what a court would rule, but based on the way we have over seen others it would be no one elected on that ticket or appointed by that winner could sit in that office ... Hillary wouldn't be it if it went that far down. And remember, if Pelosi would move up to that office temporarily she would resign her office to do so, and this would mean that she would not go back to the House ;D
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You forget that Biden didn't run for President - Obama did, and if he did so illegally the election is nullified. This is the same reason that it wouldn't be just passed to the next highest vote getter. This is the same stance the U.S. takes with every country where we over see election results. If there is fraud by any one or any group it is a do over.
We can never tell what a court would rule, but based on the way we have over seen others it would be no one elected on that ticket or appointed by that winner could sit in that office ... Hillary wouldn't be it if it went that far down. And remember, if Pelosi would move up to that office temporarily she would resign her office to do so, and this would mean that she would not go back to the House ;D
Thats nice in theory, but show me the law. The Court is not going to pull someting out of its ass to create a do over. The resoning will be that Aticle Two states that the veep succeeds the pres. The people chose Biden who is eligible, to that office, therefore the clear text of Article Two carries the day. There is no, except for X,Y and Z there. There is also the question of whether the Court could throw Obama out, or if he would have to be impeached if he was ieligible, barring the Cabinet invoking Article 25.
Ths is very much uncharted territory.
FQ13
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Thats nice in theory, but show me the law. The Court is not going to pull someting out of its ass to create a do over. The resoning will be that Aticle Two states that the veep succeeds the pres. The people chose Biden who is eligible, to that office, therefore the clear text of Article Two carries the day. There is no, except for X,Y and Z there. There is also the question of whether the Court could throw Obama out, or if he would have to be impeached if he was ieligible, barring the Cabinet invoking Article 25.
Ths is very much uncharted territory.
FQ13
Obama being out would be a no brainer that is spelled out through inelligability. It is everything after that that would be for those that think they are smarter than us.
The bigger thing is that just because it would be complicated, time consuming and stop all legislative operation is no reason to act like the three monkeys playing deaf, dumb and blind.
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The closest we have to a precedent on this would be Nixon.
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Thats nice in theory, but show me the law. The Court is not going to pull someting out of its ass to create a do over. The resoning will be that Aticle Two states that the veep succeeds the pres. The people chose Biden who is eligible, to that office, therefore the clear text of Article Two carries the day. There is no, except for X,Y and Z there. There is also the question of whether the Court could throw Obama out, or if he would have to be impeached if he was ieligible, barring the Cabinet invoking Article 25.
Ths is very much uncharted territory.
FQ13
Especially with what we do with all of the legislation he signed. Legal and binding or not? Nixon was legally elected. If bho is found to have assumed the position illegally, all the Presidential history books need to be rewritten, but the laws he signed? Damn good question.
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The laws he signed would still be good. No judge would make them just go away.
It would be a very good bet that the VP would be next in line.
Its best if we don't go down that road.
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There is no precedent on this so I will contradict TAB by pointing out that if he was elected illegally he did not have the authority to sign or veto bills or exercise ANY Presidential duties. This means all the Czars could be challenged as well as Cabinet appointments.
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I don't agree with your attitude that it is a road we best not go down. The easy road is seldom the best or correct road. We best not be found lazy, but rather willing to do the hard work if it is the correct work. Think of the person that takes the simple lie to get around a complex situation they find themself in. It may be easy going the wrong way at first, but in the long run it is always easier to do the hard work up front and move on than to perpetuate the complicated wrongs.
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lets just say obama is removed from office...
Chances are here is what would happen.
Bidden, is sworn in, as a nation we look very bad...
here is another thing that might happen.
all of his laws he signed get thrown out, nancy gets sworn in... congress scrambles to get all the laws repassed.
In case you don't see where I'm going with this, nothing good comes from Obama being removed for not being a US citz.
many things that "could happen" are actually worse.
We are better off leaving it alone.
Do I want obama gone? yes, I do. Is replacing him with the VP or the speaker of the house a improvment? Bidden is a toss up, Nancy is not. The best thing we can do now is limit it him by "changing" congress in the midterm elections.
Tom, good faith applys to the bills he signed. Chances are very good they would stand.
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lets just say obama is removed from office...
Chances are here is what would happen.
Bidden, is sworn in, as a nation we look very bad...
here is another thing that might happen.
all of his laws he signed get thrown out, nancy gets sworn in... congress scrambles to get all the laws repassed.
In case you don't see where I'm going with this, nothing good comes from Obama being removed for not being a US citz.
many things that "could happen" are actually worse.
We are better off leaving it alone.
Do I want obama gone? yes, I do. Is replacing him with the VP or the speaker of the house a improvment? Bidden is a toss up, Nancy is not. The best thing we can do now is limit it him by "changing" congress in the midterm elections.
Tom, good faith applys to the bills he signed. Chances are very good they would stand.
I've been laying out of this one, but once again, TAB, you seem to miss the simplest point here.
IF, and I'll say IF, BHO is not a US citizen, then he CAN'T LEGALLY be POTUS.....just that simple....regardless of the crap-storm it would cause.
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I understand that, but its kind of like talking about your virginity after you have already had sex. The cherry has already been poped. Nothing you can do is going to change that.
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The law is clear that the President MUST be a natural BORN American. If Obama does not meet that requirement he MUST be removed regardless of convenience or consequences. To do otherwise sets a precedent that undermines the foundations of the entire Constitutional form of Govt.
I understand that, but its kind of like talking about your virginity after you have already had sex. The cherry has already been poped. Nothing you can do is going to change that.
Let me ask you TAB, Using your own sexual example, If you stumble across a rape in progress, do you wait till the guy is done before you intervene ? Hey, he's already in, stopping him now won't repair the harm he has done, it will only wreck his day as well as his victims.
In the event that Obama is not legally qualified to be president WE are the victims.
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rather I do or do not, it was still a rape.
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TAB,
What you propose in the name of saving face and FQ's reasoning of complications and difficulty is full blown anarchy. The same reasoning you are using for this could be used to throw out every law in the nation because to convict people of crimes makes us look like a nation of criminals to the rest of the world.
There comes a time when you have to admit that your uncle is a drunk, your dad is screwing the babysitter and your sister is pregnant. If you don't admit it and change it you only perpetuate the problem.