The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Bowtech on October 26, 2009, 06:21:30 PM
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Hello everybody. I'm a new member to this forum but I have been reading posts for a while now. Anyway I have been wanting to buy a good reliable rifle that I can keep in my truck. I would like for it to have open sights that I can hit targets out to at least 200 yards. I'm not sure what rifle to buy but I've been looking at a Marlin 336 in .30-30 and the remington 7600 or 7615. If anbody can help me out and maybe suggests other rifles I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
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The 30-30 is a good gun and you should be able to find used ones at a good price. 200 yards might be pushing a little depending on how good a shot you are.
What might you be shooting? Varmints, small game, deer, pigs?
A Rem in at least .270 or .308 (best caliber IMHO) would also be a good choice but a bit more pricey. Better range with these calibers.
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AK
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AK
BM,
He wants to hit things at "at least 200 yards".
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Welcome to DRTV Bowtech.
200yds? With open sights? Hunting while out for a spin?
For that range, perhaps a bolt action, 25-06, 7mm-08, .270, or 308. I think the majority of shots will be less than 200yds, but okay, here's some other ideas. Even a Puma lever action in 44 would work, depending on what you plan to shoot at.
Interesting Read. Here's the link and a segment.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm
The smallest of these animals offers about an 8" diameter heart-lung kill area and most offer at least a 10" kill area. So, to be conservative, let's say that our rifle needs to be able to put its bullets (from a cold barrel) into about a 6" circle at whatever range our skill and the trajectory of the cartridge we are using allows. This leaves a little room for error on even the smallest medium game animals.
For the hunter using a 100-150 yard hunting rifle, such as rifles chambered for what are fundamentally pistol cartridges (.357 Magnum, .44-40, .44 Magnum, etc.) or low pressure cartridges like the .38-55 and .45-70, a 4 MOA group will suffice. 4" groups at 100 yards don't look very impressive at the range, but 4 MOA groups mean all bullets within a 6" circle at 150 yards, about the maximum useful range of this class of cartridges. A .44 Magnum rifle that will put all of its bullets into a 4" circle at 100 yards is a deadly deer rifle, as accurate as it needs to be.
A 200 yard hunting rifle, such as a .30-30, .35 Remington, or .444 Marlin needs to print 3 MOA (3") groups at 100 yards. This means that all of the bullets will be landing inside of a 6" circle at 200 yards. A North American hunter can take any deer, sheep, pronghorn, or goat with such a rifle. In Townsend Whelen's day, few hunting rifles would shoot better than that. Many will today, but practically speaking it doesn't matter. 3 MOA is good enough for 100% kills out to at least 200 yards. A 200 yard rifle that shoots 1 MOA groups is not one whit deadlier than one that shoots 3 MOA groups.
The hunter with a long range rifle capable of taking medium game at 300 yards (such as a 6mm Remington, .25-06, .270 Winchester, 7mm Remington Magnum or .300 Winchester Magnum), needs a rifle that averages 2 MOA groups. Those 2" groups at 100 yards will open to 6" at 300 yards. Very few hunters can take advantage of more accuracy than that in the field, so 2 MOA represents the practical limit of accuracy for most hunters. I am sure that Col. Whelen would have classified such a rifle as very "interesting." Of course, it is nice if Old Betsy will shoot even smaller groups at the rifle range, but it is simply not necessary from a practical standpoint.
Marlin is a good choice. But it depends on what your going after.
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Heck,
Ya could pick up an old Mosin Nagant for $80.00 and 800 rounds of ammo for another $150.00 and it would damn sure do the job. Ya wouldn't care about it bouncin' around in yer truck either.
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Would a Mini-14 work for you or is .223 too small?
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I'm going to side with the Haz on this one. For 200 yard reach, the 30-30 sheds too much energy to be very effective and 8-12" drop at 200 yards is tough to judge with irons. I hunted with nothing but 30-30 over the years. Quite cabable to 100-150 yards. Further than that is .30-06 or .308 for me.
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Heck,
Ya could pick up an old Mosin Nagant for $80.00 and 800 rounds of ammo for another $150.00 and it would damn sure do the job. Ya wouldn't care about it bouncin' around in yer truck either.
Actually that ain't a bad idea. Buy two and you're still ahead of a used 30-30 only with '06 umph. I don't know how accurate the average nagant is, but you can't break them and they make a dandy club. ;D If I had any excuse to own one I would. You don't mention price or preffered action though, or if you want it to double as a defensive rifle. Let us know.
FQ13
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Actually that ain't a bad idea. Buy two and you're still ahead of a used 30-30 only with '06 umph. I don't know how accurate the average nagant is, but you can't break them and they make a dandy club. ;D If I had any excuse to own one I would. You don't mention price or preffered action though, or if you want it to double as a defensive rifle. Let us know.
FQ13
And if the Mosin is a bit long have the local gun smith whack 2 or 3 feet off the barrel. ;)
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Thanks for all the replies. And yes Hazcat I would want it to double as a defensive gun and maybe use it for hunting deer sometimes. I don't want to spend a whole lot and I want an action that will be reliable. I had thought about .308 for the distance and more power but what would be a good, reasonably priced, and reliable?
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The AK is OK, an SKS is better as there are no Magazines to lose or develop feed problems.
Since you are already looking at "name Brand" rifles, how about a lever action Savage (model 99) in either .300 Savage or .308. Because the Savage used a rotary magazine it did not have the problems associated with pointed bullets in tube fed rifles.
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Mossberg bolt with sights in .308 $356.00 http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumers/subsites/inven_product.asp?dealer_id=62832&item=26252&instock=all&manufact_combo=None&mod_ser_combo=None&category_combo=None&model=None&g_type=None&act_type=&finish_type=None&calib_combo=308&sight_class_combo=None&price_range=None&left_handed=&youth=&Offset_rec=50&num_rec=50&item_num=
The Rem 7600 is about $580.00
Browning BLR lever for $750.00 http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumers/subsites/inven_product.asp?dealer_id=62832&item=034006118&instock=all&manufact_combo=None&mod_ser_combo=None&category_combo=None&model=None&g_type=None&act_type=&finish_type=None&calib_combo=308&sight_class_combo=None&price_range=None&left_handed=&youth=&Offset_rec=0&num_rec=50&item_num=
Now if you limit yourself to 150 - 200(MAX) yards then it's a whole new ballgame.
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I haven't really limited myslef to any brand those are the ones that I had looked at and thought would be good. I am open to any suggestions. I hadn't really looked at prices, the remington 7600 would probably be my limit onr retail price at $580.
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You can save some money by buying used.
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Sign up for the giveaway of the FNAR 7.62 x 51mm. Perfect out to 500 yards and further with a good scope!
Problem solved for the price of the sales taxes and the paperwork if you win!
;)
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Bow,
How many 200 plus yard shots in hunting do you get in KY? I'm betting 'not many if any'.
That being said, if ya drop back to 150 yards the 30-30 has been doing it for a LONG time.
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Bow,
How many 200 plus yard shots in hunting do you get in KY? I'm betting 'not many if any'.
That being said, if ya drop back to 150 yards the 30-30 has been doing it for a LONG time.
Agree completely! Go with a lever gun in .30-30 and look good doing it!
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Truck gun - go with a good all around standard ammo in a trouble free bolt or lever.
I don't think you could go wrong with a 30-30 in lever. If you're going to go for rabbit, gopher or something else small ... like a beer can or two you can always throw in a 10/22.
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Stop teasing him with my gun dude! Seriously, if you want a bolt, I would start by looking at a savage in the classics, .270, .30-06 or .308. If you want it to double as a defensive weapon, then I would move my range down to 150 yards and look at a lever gun in either .44 magnum, or .30-30. Here you get the rapid rate of fire. Marlin, Winchester, Mossberg, Savage, Remington (who used to make some good pumps back in the day) and Rugr can all be had second hand for reasonable prices. I would advise you join Gunbroker.com (it costs $2). Doing so lets you view completed auctions so you can see what guns actually sold for.
FQ13
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Haz, I don't think there would be many 200 yard shots here in east KY :). BUt I would like to be able to hit a target out that far. I think the .30-30 would be a good choice. I did think that 200 yards would be pushing it for the ole .30-30 but I thought it would be its maximum distance. And Tim I did sign up for the Fn but I don't think I would keep that gun in my truck ;)
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And Tim I did sign up for the Fn but I don't think I would keep that gun in my truck ;)
It's usually a new member that wins Bow....good luck. Ya notice we here on the forum are enablers of our sport. One rule that goes without saying is post porn when you buy! (porn = pictures)
;D
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Cartridge Information
Index Number Cartridge Type Weight (grs.) Bullet Style Primer No. Ballistic Coefficient
R44MG3 Remington® Express® 240 Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point 2 1/2 0.166
R30301 Remington® Express® 150 Soft Point Core-Lokt® 9 1/2 0.193
Velocity (ft/sec)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 240 SJ HP 1760 1380 1114 970 878 806
Remington® Express® 150 SP CL 2390 1973 1605 1303 1095 974
Energy (ft-lbs)
Cartridge Type Bullet Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 240 SJ HP 1650 1015 661 501 411 346
Remington® Express® 150 SP CL 1902 1296 858 565 399 316
Short-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 50 100 150 200 250 300
Remington® Express® 240 SJ HP zero -2.1 -8.7 -21.2 -40.6 -67.7
Remington® Express® 150 SP CL 0.2 zero -2.4 -7.6 -16.1 -28.8
Long-Range Trajectory
Cartridge Type Bullet 100 150 200 250 300 400 500
Remington® Express® 240 SJ HP zero -5.6 -17.0 -35.4 -61.4 -143.0 -269.9
Remington® Express® 150 SP CL 1.6 zero -4.3 -12.1 -24.0 -64.2 -133.2
Note: These ballistics reflected a test barrel length of 24" except those for 30 Carbine and 44 Remington Magnum which are 20" barrels.
Specifications are nominal. Ballistics figures established in test barrels. Individual rifles may vary from test barrel results.
“zero” indicates yardage at which rifle was sighted in.
* Inches above or below line of sight. Hold low for positive numbers, high for negative numbers.
Comparison of the 44mag and 30-30
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Do you know what the difference in the trajectory, muzzel velocity, muzzel energy of the .30-30 would be in a 20" barrel instead of the 24"?
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Do you know what the difference in the trajectory, muzzel velocity, muzzel energy of the .30-30 would be in a 20" barrel instead of the 24"?
It shouldn't make a big difference.
Here's where I got the info
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/
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Here's my take, I'd go Savage (I'm a known Savage fan boy) in short action. Pick up a 20" barrel for it, for a truck gun. Since you stated you want it for defense too I'd suggest .308 and simply for the simple fact that it's available factory loaded almost everywhere. If you would have left out the defense part would have leaned toward another caliber but for defense you really can't expect to spend time loading for your exotic caliber. Running down to the local sports/tackle,gunshop is quicker and easier. But given the fact that it would be Savage you can rebarrel pretty much at will by yourself in well under 20 minutes if you're so inclined. In theory you could have several barrels at home or where ever, available for your shooting desires, 22-250,308,30BR, etc etc..
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Hey bud,
I hunt with a Remington 760 in .30-06 (the precursor to the 7600). I find it a wonderful weapon. Not only is it accurate (I've killed two whitetails with it at around 300 yards) but it is very fast. In addition, if you get a carbine model, they are very, very handy. I would suggest one of those with zero hesitation. Also, if you are looking for a more tactical weapon, you can get the 7615, which is essentially the same rifle but in .223 and accepts AR-15 mags...
Enjoy the search!
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Bullitbill, what kind of savage are you talking about, it sounds pretty intersting. And sanjuancb, I have thought about the 7615 for more of a defensive weapon but I kind of would like to use my truck gun for hunting deer. I do like that it uses ar-15 mags, plenty of capacity.
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Savage model 99 (lever)
http://www.gunsamerica.com/988125844/Guns/Rifles/Savage-Rifles/Model-95-99-Family/Savage_99E_308Win.htm
or
http://www.gunsamerica.com/903524491/Guns/Rifles/Savage-Rifles/Model-95-99-Family/SAVAGE_M_99_308_WIN.htm
Rem 760 (308)
http://www.gunsamerica.com/917499073/Guns/Rifles/Remington-Rifles-Modern/Model-700/Sporting/Remington_Model_6_308_caliber.htm
There are a lot of the 7600 chambered in 30-06 for $450 - $525.
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Thanks to everyone for the great discussion it really helped me out. Maybe I will make my mind up some time soon.
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Thanks to everyone for the great discussion it really helped me out. Maybe I will make my mind up some time soon.
Maybe you will. Of course, then you will have to decide on a "house" gun ;D
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Bowtech your are getting a lot of good info, and I'm not going to disagree with any of it. I still did not see what you are going to use it for as far as smallest target at 200 and normal target at 200. Prairie dog at 200 with a lever gun, doubtful as a rule, coyote, definitely possible, white tail deer or bigger, yes.
Now here in Texas, a truck gun, is not going to get treated well, definitely no optics, and will get a good cleaning when it quits working. I don't know if this what you are thinking. I like sks's for rugged truck guns. Cheap, work, and accurate enough for 8" accuracy zones at 200. If you forget about it and it gets rode hard and put up wet, it will still work and get ugly, resale will go to zip, but your out little, and have lost little. The milsurp bolts proposed here are great choices as well, cheap and more accurate, with a simple sighting system, but rugged and have greater range. The 8mm and .303's do thump though.
The Remington auto's or pumps can be had used for sometimes ridiculously low money, and if bought for 2-300 bucks are available in stronger, longer range calibers, and are not a bad choice. The new ammo for 30-30, is expensive, but makes it a very viable 200 yrd cartridge.
The high end levers like the Savage or Browning, I like, and maybe your truck gun, sits in a protected place, where rubbing on the floor is not going to happen, getting wet and not attended to is not going to happen, that is what happens here to truck guns.
Good conversation.
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When I have owned Enfields in .303 I did not have the cash for lots of ammo so 20 rounds was about it, I have shot 75 or 100 rounds at a time of 8MM after about 60 I didn't REALLY want to shoot any more. But with the Mosin Nagant (belonged to a friend ) I shot 5 rounds and it was about 4 more than I wanted to. I think it has to do with the stock design.
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When I have owned Enfields in .303 I did not have the cash for lots of ammo so 20 rounds was about it, I have shot 75 or 100 rounds at a time of 8MM after about 60 I didn't REALLY want to shoot any more. But with the Mosin Nagant (belonged to a friend ) I shot 5 rounds and it was about 4 more than I wanted to. I think it has to do with the stock design.
I shortened up an M-44 Mosin Nagant and put on a synthetic stock with a decent recoil pad and it makes it about like my 8mm as far as recoil. It would also make a great truck gun as it's dirt cheap and can withstand abuse.
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Bowtech your are getting a lot of good info, and I'm not going to disagree with any of it. I still did not see what you are going to use it for as far as smallest target at 200 and normal target at 200. Prairie dog at 200 with a lever gun, doubtful as a rule, coyote, definitely possible, white tail deer or bigger, yes.
Now here in Texas, a truck gun, is not going to get treated well, definitely no optics, and will get a good cleaning when it quits working. I don't know if this what you are thinking. I like sks's for rugged truck guns. Cheap, work, and accurate enough for 8" accuracy zones at 200. If you forget about it and it gets rode hard and put up wet, it will still work and get ugly, resale will go to zip, but your out little, and have lost little. The milsurp bolts proposed here are great choices as well, cheap and more accurate, with a simple sighting system, but rugged and have greater range. The 8mm and .303's do thump though.
The Remington auto's or pumps can be had used for sometimes ridiculously low money, and if bought for 2-300 bucks are available in stronger, longer range calibers, and are not a bad choice. The new ammo for 30-30, is expensive, but makes it a very viable 200 yrd cartridge.
The high end levers like the Savage or Browning, I like, and maybe your truck gun, sits in a protected place, where rubbing on the floor is not going to happen, getting wet and not attended to is not going to happen, that is what happens here to truck guns.
Good conversation.
+1
I hear the Hornady LeverEvolution ammo for the 30-30 really extends the effective range of that cartridge.
http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=198
http://www.chuckhawks.com/leverevolution.htm
Gun #1 (25 1/4" barrel)
* Hornady LEVERevolution 160 grain Evo - Average velocity 2326 fps; extreme spread 21 fps.
* Federal 150 grain FP - Average velocity 2239 fps; extreme spread 13 fps.
* Federal 170 grain FP - Average velocity 2062 fps; extreme spread 10 fps.
Gun #2 (20" barrel)
* Hornady LEVERevolution 160 grain Evo - Average velocity 2236 fps; extreme spread 30 fps.
* Federal 150 grain FP - Average velocity 2200 fps; extreme spread 5 fps.
* Federal 170 grain FP - Average velocity 1993 fps; extreme spread 12 fps.
Gun #3 (20" barrel)
* 10' from muzzle: Hornady LEVERevolution 160 grain Evo - Average velocity 2249; extreme spread 34 fps.
* At 100 yards: Hornady LEVERevolution 160 grain Evo @ 100 Yards - Average velocity 1995; extreme spread 33 fps.
These results indicate that in a full length barrel the Hornady LEVERevolution .30-30 ammunition is averaging about 75 fps faster than the traditional Federal flat point ammunition. This is a welcome velocity increase. From the 20" barrel of a carbine the LEVERevolution ammo averaged a whopping 140 fps faster than the traditional ammo.
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Have used the majority of rifles and carbines mentioned here at sometime or another. The remington pump rifles would be a good choice if they feel good to u. I have noticed on a couple new 7400 Rem autoloaders and a 7600 that the comb on the buttstock made it impossible for me to "get down" on the iron sights. I assume it was a change Big Green made b/c most people are using optics these days. I will say that I cannot reccomend the 740,742,7400 Rem semi-autos. They were the gun of choice for almost all hunters in my area since they decided to put away their shotguns. What most have found is that they are very unreliable especially when not kept extremely clean(most malfunctioned even then). Hence the "Jam-a-matic" nickname for the old 742 Woodsmaster. Haven't had the chance to try the new 750(and probably won't). Have always wanted a Marlin in 44mag for a good truck gun. There are most likely better and worse choices, but a lever gun companion to my Ruger Blackhawk 44mag has always "tripped my trigger!"
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Have always wanted a Marlin in 44mag for a good truck gun. There are most likely better and worse choices, but a lever gun companion to my Ruger Blackhawk 44mag has always "tripped my trigger!"
Amen, brother, Amen...............
I've been wanting a .44 lever-gun to compliment my Super Blackhawks for a while. Just haven't run across the right deal yet.
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I would have to say to go with a good lever gun.
Come on, it's the original cowboy assault rifle. ;D
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Amen, brother, Amen...............
I've been wanting a .44 lever-gun to compliment my Super Blackhawks for a while. Just haven't run across the right deal yet.
It just feels right don't it?! Ha
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Here's a couple of good threads on lever guns for serious work:
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=4901.0
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=1085.0
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BM,
He wants to hit things smaller than a house at "at least 200 yards".
Corrected for accuracy.
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I'm going to side with the Haz on this one. For 200 yard reach, the 30-30 sheds too much energy to be very effective and 8-12" drop at 200 yards is tough to judge with irons. I hunted with nothing but 30-30 over the years. Quite cabable to 100-150 yards. Further than that is .30-06 or .308 for me.
Hornaday's new LeveRevolution .30-30 ammo will do the trick out to 300 yds. for a lever gun.
I think the Mosin–Nagant suggestion is a good one. I have an M-44 that I am considering as a trunk gun as soon as I can figure a way to make it secure.
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Hornaday's new LeveRevolution .30-30 ammo will do the trick out to 300 yds. for a lever gun.
I stand corrected however, I don't think I'd load that pointy bullet in a tube fed magazine. Fine for everything else but I'd avoid that cartridge in a lever action tube fed gun.
Thoughts?
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I stand corrected however, I don't think I'd load that pointy bullet in a tube fed magazine. Fine for everything else but I'd avoid that cartridge in a lever action tube fed gun.
Thoughts?
That's exactly what it was made for. The rubber tip won't set off another round in the magazine.
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That's exactly what it was made for. The rubber tip won't set off another round in the magazine.
So I've read, that doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy though Frank...still bothersome too me!
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Tim,
Look at it this way. We all complain about 'lawyer triggers', think about what the lawyers had to say about this ammo.
I trust it is as safe as any other loaded gun.
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So I've read, that doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy though Frank...still bothersome too me!
I agree, particularly for a truck gun, where it is by definition going to get jostled and knocked around. I'll stick with soft points. In a magazine fed model, no problem. Still for 200 yards plus, I'd choose a different round. Still, the question is, how many of us would feel comfortable taking a 200 yard plus shot on game with irons? I don't know about ya'll,but my eyes are not what they used to be. Maybe with a rear peep and a fiberoptic front sight, but at dawn and dusk (when most shots on deer occur), I'll just move closer or wait for the next one.
FQ13
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Tim,
Look at it this way. We all complain about 'lawyer triggers', think about what the lawyers had to say about this ammo.
I trust it is as safe as any other loaded gun.
I double checked my memory, and this ammo was specifically designed for tube magazines. It is their answer to the aerodynamic issues of round nose in long range shots. Hornady wouldn't have released it without a lot of research and testing, and for as much as is out there we would have heard long ago if there was an issue.
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I double checked my memory, and this ammo was specifically designed for tube magazines. It is their answer to the aerodynamic issues of round nose in long range shots. Hornady wouldn't have released it without a lot of research and testing, and for as much as is out there we would have heard long ago if there was an issue.
That I can wrap my brain around but, at what pressures are they pushing this case in order to get the extra reach and energy? Is it truly a .30 cal with 30 gr of powder now? Can it be loaded in older guns for which this round was originaly chambered? What is the old and new SAAMI pressures for the cartridge?
I've only now become aware of this cartridge so these are the questions the come to mind immediately. You guys and gals have far more experience in these things than I do, do any of these questions sound rediculous or am I being overly conservative?
Hornady Disclaimer
In the past, lever guns were engineered to function ammunition loaded with blunt profile bullets. LEVERevolution's revolutionary new bullet design may require a newer magazine follower to provide best possible functioning of the last round out of the magazine. These magazine followers may be purchased from the manufacturer of your firearm. For optimum performance we do not recommend storing LEVERevoultion ammunition in tubular magazines for extended periods, as this can result in tip deformation.
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FQ, the next time there is an Appleseed event in your area, GO. The basic premise of the Project is that if you can not make consistent hits with a rack grade rifle at 500 yards, with iron sights you are NOT a Rifleman .
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The Appleseed Program is designed to take you from being a simple rifle owner to being a true rifleman. All throughout American history, the rifleman has been defined as a marksman capable of hitting a man-sized target from 500 yards away — no ifs, ands or buts about it. This 500-yard range is traditionally known as "the rifleman's quarter-mile;" a rifleman can hit just about any target he can see. This skill was particulary evident in the birth of our country, and was the difference in winning the Revolutionary War.
What's a rifleman?
In short, a rifleman is an armed American, trained in the tradition of American Liberty. It's a man who has learned to shoot a rifle accurately — accurate enough to score "expert" on the Army Qualification Course. Until you can do that, you're considered a "Cook," unprepared and unqualified to carry a rifle on the firing line of freedom.
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FQ, the next time there is an Appleseed event in your area, GO. The basic premise of the Project is that if you can not make consistent hits with a rack grade rifle at 500 yards, with iron sights you are NOT a Rifleman .
Tom
I don't know about 500, but three I can do. Its just that hits on a target at noon is one thing. Shooting at a deer at dusk is something else. If it were take the shot or go hungry, yeah. Hunting? I'll stalk closer or come back tommorow and set up closer.
FQ13
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I'm reasonably sure I can hit a man sized target at 150 to 200 yards. 500 yards? Maybe one hit out of fifty...
I can also cook!
;D
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I'm reasonably sure I can hit a man sized target at 150 to 200 yards. 500 yards? Maybe one hit out of fifty...
I can also cook!
;D
500yds....... NO PROBLEMO!!!, only because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night,... :P
I do make a mean rack of ribs though... ::)
If an Appleseed event comes anywhere close to me, FQ and I will both go...
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500yds....... NO PROBLEMO!!!, only because I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night,... :P
I do make a mean rack of ribs though... ::)
If an Appleseed event comes anywhere close to me, FQ and I will both go...
With that sharps you better go, and do well. The last time I shot 300 yards`with irons was on a police pop-up range in Texas with an AR. That, was a few years ago. ;D
FQ13
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Something that needs to be said...
Don't buy a gun you can't aford to replace. There is a chance the gun could be stolen, nothing worse then loseing a gun you love.
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M48 yugo Mauser in 8mm works great. I have found them to quit capable in taking medium and large game, and putting the hurt on 2 legged predators NP. Heck the rifle costs 89.99 and ammo is fairly cheap. If its lost or stolen it wont hurt so much and is easy to replace.
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With that sharps you better go, and do well. The last time I shot 300 yards`with irons was on a police pop-up range in Texas with an AR. That, was a few years ago. ;D
FQ13
FQ, When I was in the Marines we had to shoot 500 yards, open sights with M 16's (20 inch barrel ) With training, not only can it be done but it is fairly easy. This is sling supported, no sand bags or rests or shooting sticks, (which by the way disgust me, if you can't shoot your rifle with out support you don't belong in the woods ).
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This is sling supported...
Slings are for sissy's.
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Would a Mini-14 work for you or is .223 too small?
A Mini-14 makes a pretty effective club, but it won't have the accuracy of an actual firearm. You could go .223, but you should look at one of the ARs instead. Not a terribly effective hunting round, but you can get pretty good accuracy at extended ranges.
I think I'd go with Haz on his recommendation--Mosin Nagant--cheap, reliable, can double as a tent pole, and accurate as heck with really cheap ammo.
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Slings are for sissy's. stability
Fixed it for you Don ;D
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Slings are for sissy's. Carrying Back-ups ;D ;D
Case in point. Stolen from another thread
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Fact: A hunting rifle without a sling simply denotes lack of experience. The list of reasons goes well over a dozen.
We're back to "hitting a man size target" at range. So an AK remains in the running (if your missing a man at 300 yards don't blame the rifle!), though an SKS, and even M44 Mosin Nagant would do fine. But being a "truck gun", the ones I've seen didn't get much love between shootings. Better to go with something in Stainless.
I'd sacrifice the shooting at 200 yards idea to have a Mossberg Mariner in there myself. ULTIMATE versatility out to about 100 yards. If your shooting further than that, it's probably going to be a little more planned out, and you should bring along the appropriate tool for that trip.
Just my opinion.
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I'm reasonably sure I can hit a man sized target at 150 to 200 yards. 500 yards? Maybe one hit out of fifty...
I can also cook!
;D
Tim, I'm sure your a fine shot when it comes to human size targets, and great campfire cook. I only hope you never come to combine the two in a single trip!!! ;D
"You go on ahead... I'll wait here." He said as he chambered a round. :( :( :(
(http://www.emediawire.com/prfiles/2005/01/06/194905/DPCBfront.jpg)
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I know that we have given BowTech more information than he was ready for, and that he is making his decission, but I am going to do like the rest and keep this going.
I went back and read the opening post and am going out on a limb to acutally suggest Two lever actions.
One in .30-06 for those long range or heavy animal shots, and one in .22lr for plinking or small animal needs.
Savage and Browning both make a box magazine .30-06, and I am sure there are others.
To me this is the simplest in operation, reliability and commonly found ammo choices.
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Tim, I'm sure your a fine shot when it comes to human size targets, and great campfire cook. I only hope you never come to combine the two in a single trip!!! ;D
To quote our beloved leader...."HANG IT IN YOUR ASS BADGER!" ;D
Actually, I'm just out of practice as hunting with rifles is outlawed up here 'cept for 'yotes and bear in some areas. Not much reason or range available.
Even in the Leroy area in MI where I hunted most, there ain't much use for longer range shooting. Most all the deer hunkered down in the swamps anyway!
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I might go with 308 instead of 30-06 but a lever gun is a great choice.
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I went 06 because it is much easier to find in this neck of the woods. Same reason for the lr rather than magnum.
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You know what'd be a really nice choice...
(http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/445L.jpg)
Ruger 77/44
.44Mag.
Super practical caliber, Stainless, bolt gun reliability, removable rotary mag., iron sights with scope option, and synthetic stock. Nice! ;)
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or any of these;
Item # Manufacturer Description Quantity Availability Your Price Sale Ends
R92-50001 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 44M 24B OCT 12RD 0 contact retailer
$441.95 *
R92-50003 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 44M 24B/CC OCT 10 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-50203 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 44M 20B/CC OCT 3 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-50011 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 44M 24SS OCT 12R 6 3 days or less
$470.95 *
R92-51001 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 357 24B OCT 12RD 9 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-51003 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 357 24B/CC OCT 6 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-51203 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 357 20B/CC OCT 3 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-51011 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 357 24SS OCT 12R 1 3 days or less
$470.95 *
R92-52001 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 45LC 24B OCT 12R 4 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-52004 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 45LC 24B/BRS OCT 4 3 days or less
$493.95 *
R92-52003 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 45LC 24B/CC OCT 7 3 days or less
$425.95 * 10/31/09
R92-52203 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 45LC 20B/CC OCT 5 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-52011 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 45LC 24SS OCT 11 3 days or less
$470.95 *
R92-53203 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 44-40 20B/CC OCT 0 contact retailer
$441.95 *
R92-53221 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 44-40 24SS OCT 5 3 days or less
$470.95 *
R92-53223 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92 44-40 24B/CC OCT 0 contact retailer
$441.95 *
R92-55001 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 44M 20B RND 9 3 days or less
$395.95 * 10/31/09
R92-55002 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 44M 20B RND RNG 4 3 days or less
$435.95 *
R92-55008 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 44M 16B RND 8RD 6 3 days or less
$413.95 *
R92-55011 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 44M 20SS RND 5 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-55018 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 44M 16SS RND 3 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-56001 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 357 20B RND 10R 9 3 days or less
$383.95 * 11/30/09
R92-56002 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 357 20B RND RNG 0 contact retailer
$415.95 * 10/31/09
R92-56006 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 357 16B RND LGL 16 3 days or less
$418.95 *
R92-56008 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 357 16B RND 8RD 10 3 days or less
$413.95 *
R92-56011 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 357 20SS RND 0 contact retailer
$441.95 *
R92-56018 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 357 16SS RND 8 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-57001 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 45LC 20B RND 12 3 days or less
$413.95 *
R92-57002 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 45LC 20B RNG 5 3 days or less
$435.95 *
R92-57006 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 45LC 16B LGL 5 3 days or less
$418.95 *
R92-57008 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 45LC 16B RND 8R 15 3 days or less
$383.95 * 11/30/09
R92-57011 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 45LC 20SS RND 3 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-57018 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 45LC 16SS RND 13 3 days or less
$410.95 * 11/30/09
R92-68001 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 454 20B RND 10R 3 3 days or less
$441.95 *
R92-68002 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 454 20B RND HVZ 0 contact retailer
$441.95 *
R92-68011 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 454 20SS RND 0 contact retailer
$515.95 *
R92-68012 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 454 20SS RND HV 0 contact retailer
$515.95 *
R92-68016 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 454 16SS RND HV 0 contact retailer
$515.95 *
R92-53201 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 44-40 20B RND 8 3 days or less
$413.95 *
R92-53211 BrazTech|Rossi ROSSI M92C 44-40 20SS RND 11 3 days or less
$441.95 *
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Rossi's really made a LOT of nice changes lately! I hope that's not a de-cock lever on the side there. ::)
http://www.rossiusa.com/images/Rossi_Rebate_Coupon.pdf
VERY nice forearm & site improvement!
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Rossi's really made a LOT of nice changes lately! I hope that's not a de-cock lever on the side there. ::)
Decock is same as it has been for years and on most rifles. It is the little lever inside the loop under the action ;D
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Here's your "decocker"
http://zombietools.net/post/the_harvester/ ;D
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;D
I'll take that one before:
(http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/2117c926e45382d6)